rider
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For LgV10 ,my favourite pairing is etymotic er4p adapter with er4s iem and akg 701. both trigger the high impedance mode in the hi-fi dac
LG V10 : New ESS Chipped Flagship Android Phone from LG
- Thread starter Baycode
- Start date
I would imagine that the DAC sound the same no matter what headphones used, if not there's a major flaw somewhere in the implementation.
The amp part is what should make the difference. Many people think that louder sounds better but if well implemented it should sound the same on both low and high gain (unfortunately this is often not the case and it seem to be the same with the V10).
The amp part is what should make the difference. Many people think that louder sounds better but if well implemented it should sound the same on both low and high gain (unfortunately this is often not the case and it seem to be the same with the V10).
Goosey
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I was thinking of buying fiio x3ii or x5ii but I need a new phone and came across this thread. Is the v10 truly as good if not better than the two fiio daps?
king conan
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Hi, there!
Do you mean this adapter?
http://www.ebay.es/itm/ETYMOTIC-ER4P-TO-ER4S-RESISTOR-ADAPTOR-3-5MM-PLUG-/291329605627
I bougth it last week to try with my Fidelio X2. It's coming from HK son I have to wait a little bit.
But, at least with your AKG, do you confirm it triggers high gain fine with a clear higher volume and no weird issues?
kawaivpc1
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Yes, with AKG K7XX, K712, you get that DX100 style high-gain sound easily. It sounds just like my desktop DAC setup. I said this up to five times in this thread now but people are still dubious.....
king conan
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I'm sorry, I was not sure that you were using exactly that etymotic adapter.
So for the Fidelio X2 do you think it would be a good solution too? For classical music the normal gain mode (and the EQ app) is clearly not enough.
So for the Fidelio X2 do you think it would be a good solution too? For classical music the normal gain mode (and the EQ app) is clearly not enough.
kawaivpc1
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Forget your Fidelio X2. Get an AKG K7XX for $170 on Ebay. AKG K7XX sounds just the same as my desktop DAC setup on V10.
It's more sensitive than HD650, SRH1840, HD700, etc.
rider
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mine is from etymotic. http://www.headphone.com/products/etymotic-er-4p-to-er-4s-adapter.
yes AKG high gain is fine with no issues
king conan
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Thank you both.
I will try AKG these days. I'm really curious. But X2 are great Headphones too. And if the etymotic adapter triggers the high gain they will be a good companion too. Don't you agree?
I will try AKG these days. I'm really curious. But X2 are great Headphones too. And if the etymotic adapter triggers the high gain they will be a good companion too. Don't you agree?
Baycode
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I am a big fan of K7XX sound. Wish that I brought it with me for testing... I will do it later 
Thanks for the inputs!
Thanks for the inputs!
Anchorless
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I wanted to revisit this phone and what I'm using it with.
So my LG V10 is not rooted. I am using 90% of the 200gb SD Card and internal storage. Initially I did notice some increased lag time with some apps in their interface loading songs and track information, but that seems to have cleared itself up.
I started with Poweramp, which I used on my last phone. Obviously I have the stock music playing and the Google Music player. I've downloaded and tried a number of other music apps,and have settled on this rotation, that I like for different purposes: Stock player, DoubleTwist (paid), Rocket player (paid), Poweramp (paid), and then Tidal (hi res subscription), BubbleUpnP (paid), Youtube Player (trial).
I primarily listen to music in my vehicle, then at home through my stereo. I listen to music with my headphones about 10% of the time, although that's increased with this phone as I've been demoing more. I have both the Oppo PM-3s and Sennheiser HD600 cans.
Most of my music are FLAC files; I have a few albums that are Hi Rez FLAC. Mostly rock and guitar-based music - from the Beatles and Stones to Led Zep, Black Sabbath, et al, through the punk and metal movements of the late 70s and 80's (and on), 90's alternative, indie rock, folk, some hip hop, etc. My reference albums are typical Led Zeppelin I (Hi Rez), Houses of the Holy (Hi Rez), Tool - Aenema and Lateralus, Pink Floyd - Dark Side, and Converge - Jane Doe.
The Stock Player and DoubleTwist will use the HiFi DAC with no issues, no toggling, with my headphones, AUX cable, and through Chromecast (it's more different to analyze and compare with Chromecast, though... frankly I haven't spent a lot of time with this yet). So will Tidal and BubbleUpnP. Poweramp and Rocket Player do not, and beyond the volume differences, I find a significant sound difference between the apps that use the HiFi DAC and those that do not.
As such, I usually never use Poweramp (although it has the more nuanced EQ adjustability and definitely has a more processed sound signature than the other apps, even without the EQ or Tone adjustments on). Rocket Player is more neutral and natural - less overwhelming presence and bass, especially in my truck, with or without EQ adjustments. Rocket Player's EQ presets and custom settings are pretty underwhelming, though. It's okay to just set and forget, whether off or on, but stinks for adjusting. The more I fiddle with the stock player, DoubleTwist, and Tidal, the less I use Rocket Player, even in my truck. I mainly use Rocket Player because I like the interface the best, and I can Chromecast with it very easily. The other apps do not cast - Poweramp does not at all, DoubleTwist will only AirCast through Apple devices, and while BubbleUpnP does Chromecast, I find it a bit cumbersome with my loaded music, and primarily use it only with Tidal, which is the only way to Cast Tidal. It works well for that, however.
On to the important stuff...
First, there's a very obvious and distinct difference in the volume and sound quality when using the HiFi DAC and not, using any output option (stereo, cans, truck speakers). The volume difference is especially apparent with the HD600s, because they are higher impedance cans, they top out in volume pretty quick. The HD600s simply do not get very loud with the apps that do not use the HiFi DAC, and the soundstage is definitely less nuanced, more compressed, less detailed. With the stock player and DoubleTwist, the HD600s get loud enough for my tastes, but they won't get so loud that it hurts to listen to. In other words, the HD600s only get so loud, which may or may not be loud enough for everyone, especially those who want to push it to 11.
While there is an obvious and significant volume difference with apps using the HiFi DAC and those that do not when I am listening though the PM-3s, both groups of apps get plenty loud. With Poweramp and Rocket, you can get as loud as you want even with though you're not using the HiFi DAC; even louder if you are using the DAC with stock player, Tidal, and Double Twist. But there is still a qualitative difference in the sound, but with the PM-3s, because volume is not an issue, you can instead focus on what kind of sound you like - the customization you can get with Poweramp and its signature sound, or the more natural and nuanced sound you get using the DAC with stock and Double Twist. I still prefer those apps using the DAC.
(It should be said here that both the stock player and Double Twist have terrible EQs - and the stock player disables the EQ using Hi Rez files)
Comparing between the HD600s and the PM-3s... well, to me the HD600s sound much better. Again, more detail, separation, distinction with the open backed cans than the closed back planars. Not that the PM3s don't sound good - they do, and they get much more volume and punch than the HD600s, and maybe a little more attack... but the HD600s are just easier to listen to, less fatiguing, and it's really awesome to notice some of those details you don't quite get on a stereo or PM3s, little ticks of the symbols, the plucking sound of bass strings, longer acoustic guitar string ringing, etc. Somewhat subtle, but pronounced in comparison with the HD600s.
Lastly, I don't notice a great deal of difference between the stock player and Double Twist - both use the HiFi DAC, and I don't hear any differences in the sound between the two players. So it is more a matter of interface for me, frankly. And I prefer Double Twist. So ultimately I am primarily using Double Twist and Tidal to listen to music.
If I were to assign a score for these combinations, and keep in mind these scores are merely in comparison to each other, they are not objective scores, it might go as follows:
If HD600s using stock/Double Twist/Tidal (HiFi) is a 10...
PM-3 using stock/Double Twist/Tidal (HiFi) would be a 9...
HD600s using Rocket Player: 6.5
PM-3s using Rocket Player: 7.5
HD600s using Poweramp: 6.0 - 7.0 depending on the music
PM-3s using Poweramp: 6.5 - 8.0 depending on the music.
I hope that helps. Maybe sometime I can test using some very cheap earbuds just to see the comparative qualities therein.
In sum, the HD600s are really, really good with the HiFi DAC. Even with the volume limitations, I find myself using them so much more than the louder and punchier PM-3s, unless for some reason I want to listen to music with the apps that aren't using the DAC.
But more importantly, I feel like the HiFi DAC is a much bigger and more important influence on the sound quality than the headphones, as long as the cans you are using are adequate. It is noticeable and significant.
Just to add a little more context to my review, I feel like the LG V10 keeps up and maybe outperforms my iBasso DX90. I have since returned the iBasso. However, the LG V10 starts to lose ground when I compare with my home stereo system, especially with the HD600s, which are just much easier driven with the preamp. And I'm not using super expensive high end gear - my home system is a Sansui G4500 receiver, using a Schiit Modi 2 DAC, playing FLAC files through J River Media Center, or through my Denon D46 turntable. But I find it's hard to really compare a portable source player with a dedicated stereo system.
So my LG V10 is not rooted. I am using 90% of the 200gb SD Card and internal storage. Initially I did notice some increased lag time with some apps in their interface loading songs and track information, but that seems to have cleared itself up.
I started with Poweramp, which I used on my last phone. Obviously I have the stock music playing and the Google Music player. I've downloaded and tried a number of other music apps,and have settled on this rotation, that I like for different purposes: Stock player, DoubleTwist (paid), Rocket player (paid), Poweramp (paid), and then Tidal (hi res subscription), BubbleUpnP (paid), Youtube Player (trial).
I primarily listen to music in my vehicle, then at home through my stereo. I listen to music with my headphones about 10% of the time, although that's increased with this phone as I've been demoing more. I have both the Oppo PM-3s and Sennheiser HD600 cans.
Most of my music are FLAC files; I have a few albums that are Hi Rez FLAC. Mostly rock and guitar-based music - from the Beatles and Stones to Led Zep, Black Sabbath, et al, through the punk and metal movements of the late 70s and 80's (and on), 90's alternative, indie rock, folk, some hip hop, etc. My reference albums are typical Led Zeppelin I (Hi Rez), Houses of the Holy (Hi Rez), Tool - Aenema and Lateralus, Pink Floyd - Dark Side, and Converge - Jane Doe.
The Stock Player and DoubleTwist will use the HiFi DAC with no issues, no toggling, with my headphones, AUX cable, and through Chromecast (it's more different to analyze and compare with Chromecast, though... frankly I haven't spent a lot of time with this yet). So will Tidal and BubbleUpnP. Poweramp and Rocket Player do not, and beyond the volume differences, I find a significant sound difference between the apps that use the HiFi DAC and those that do not.
As such, I usually never use Poweramp (although it has the more nuanced EQ adjustability and definitely has a more processed sound signature than the other apps, even without the EQ or Tone adjustments on). Rocket Player is more neutral and natural - less overwhelming presence and bass, especially in my truck, with or without EQ adjustments. Rocket Player's EQ presets and custom settings are pretty underwhelming, though. It's okay to just set and forget, whether off or on, but stinks for adjusting. The more I fiddle with the stock player, DoubleTwist, and Tidal, the less I use Rocket Player, even in my truck. I mainly use Rocket Player because I like the interface the best, and I can Chromecast with it very easily. The other apps do not cast - Poweramp does not at all, DoubleTwist will only AirCast through Apple devices, and while BubbleUpnP does Chromecast, I find it a bit cumbersome with my loaded music, and primarily use it only with Tidal, which is the only way to Cast Tidal. It works well for that, however.
On to the important stuff...
First, there's a very obvious and distinct difference in the volume and sound quality when using the HiFi DAC and not, using any output option (stereo, cans, truck speakers). The volume difference is especially apparent with the HD600s, because they are higher impedance cans, they top out in volume pretty quick. The HD600s simply do not get very loud with the apps that do not use the HiFi DAC, and the soundstage is definitely less nuanced, more compressed, less detailed. With the stock player and DoubleTwist, the HD600s get loud enough for my tastes, but they won't get so loud that it hurts to listen to. In other words, the HD600s only get so loud, which may or may not be loud enough for everyone, especially those who want to push it to 11.
While there is an obvious and significant volume difference with apps using the HiFi DAC and those that do not when I am listening though the PM-3s, both groups of apps get plenty loud. With Poweramp and Rocket, you can get as loud as you want even with though you're not using the HiFi DAC; even louder if you are using the DAC with stock player, Tidal, and Double Twist. But there is still a qualitative difference in the sound, but with the PM-3s, because volume is not an issue, you can instead focus on what kind of sound you like - the customization you can get with Poweramp and its signature sound, or the more natural and nuanced sound you get using the DAC with stock and Double Twist. I still prefer those apps using the DAC.
(It should be said here that both the stock player and Double Twist have terrible EQs - and the stock player disables the EQ using Hi Rez files)
Comparing between the HD600s and the PM-3s... well, to me the HD600s sound much better. Again, more detail, separation, distinction with the open backed cans than the closed back planars. Not that the PM3s don't sound good - they do, and they get much more volume and punch than the HD600s, and maybe a little more attack... but the HD600s are just easier to listen to, less fatiguing, and it's really awesome to notice some of those details you don't quite get on a stereo or PM3s, little ticks of the symbols, the plucking sound of bass strings, longer acoustic guitar string ringing, etc. Somewhat subtle, but pronounced in comparison with the HD600s.
Lastly, I don't notice a great deal of difference between the stock player and Double Twist - both use the HiFi DAC, and I don't hear any differences in the sound between the two players. So it is more a matter of interface for me, frankly. And I prefer Double Twist. So ultimately I am primarily using Double Twist and Tidal to listen to music.
If I were to assign a score for these combinations, and keep in mind these scores are merely in comparison to each other, they are not objective scores, it might go as follows:
If HD600s using stock/Double Twist/Tidal (HiFi) is a 10...
PM-3 using stock/Double Twist/Tidal (HiFi) would be a 9...
HD600s using Rocket Player: 6.5
PM-3s using Rocket Player: 7.5
HD600s using Poweramp: 6.0 - 7.0 depending on the music
PM-3s using Poweramp: 6.5 - 8.0 depending on the music.
I hope that helps. Maybe sometime I can test using some very cheap earbuds just to see the comparative qualities therein.
In sum, the HD600s are really, really good with the HiFi DAC. Even with the volume limitations, I find myself using them so much more than the louder and punchier PM-3s, unless for some reason I want to listen to music with the apps that aren't using the DAC.
But more importantly, I feel like the HiFi DAC is a much bigger and more important influence on the sound quality than the headphones, as long as the cans you are using are adequate. It is noticeable and significant.
Just to add a little more context to my review, I feel like the LG V10 keeps up and maybe outperforms my iBasso DX90. I have since returned the iBasso. However, the LG V10 starts to lose ground when I compare with my home stereo system, especially with the HD600s, which are just much easier driven with the preamp. And I'm not using super expensive high end gear - my home system is a Sansui G4500 receiver, using a Schiit Modi 2 DAC, playing FLAC files through J River Media Center, or through my Denon D46 turntable. But I find it's hard to really compare a portable source player with a dedicated stereo system.
Baycode
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Anchorless , thanks for your comprehensive input. I will be adding a link for it in the FP.
Also I would like to add a link for hifi dac trigerring and internal amp "high gain mode" triggering (or hacking) methods, such as: plugin adapters, apps and games. But I need to see a complete tutorial for this issue (explaining all methods in a single post). Any helpful candidates? Who has the most experience ?
Also I would like to add a link for hifi dac trigerring and internal amp "high gain mode" triggering (or hacking) methods, such as: plugin adapters, apps and games. But I need to see a complete tutorial for this issue (explaining all methods in a single post). Any helpful candidates? Who has the most experience ?
Anchorless
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I don't get the triggering thing either.
Is that just a way to get Neutron to work? It doesn't seem to be an issue with other players I've tried - either they work right way with no tricks, or they simply don't work at all.
Is that just a way to get Neutron to work? It doesn't seem to be an issue with other players I've tried - either they work right way with no tricks, or they simply don't work at all.
king conan
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Talking right now with a seller of an Akg K7XX... I may pull the trigger...
So, with its 62ohmn it triggers high gain without any adapter. Is that right?
Thank you, and sorry being so repetitive.
gr8soundz
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LG implemented the V10's amp to be automatic for safety and power saving.
The V10's amp does make the difference but, just like every other portable, not every headphone will pair well with it and sensitive headphones (low ohm) work well. However, in the V10's case, sensitive headphone that can also take more power (rated above 50 ohms) perform even better.
If more power (or higher gain) makes no theoretical difference, then we need to do away with gain settings on every device and also do away with ALL desktop headphone amps as they would be unnecessary. Louder isn't better but the extra power gives a fuller sound at similar levels. Would we rather have 100 lb/ft of torque or 250 lb/ft?
Otherwise, the V10 is no more of a miracle player than others and not everyone may like it.
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