Let's do our part to put an end to overpriced plastic headphones
Jul 16, 2003 at 2:41 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 62

Beagle

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I can never get over my shock at the prices charged for pieces of plastic. Take, for example, the Beyerdynamic headphones.

Remove the pads, and tap your fingernail against the plastic housing that holds the drivers. Man, does it ever sound cheap, hollow and resonant. It makes me wonder why headphones have gone downhill drastically since the late 70's, when we have access to the cutting edge of technology and innovation. Check out the construction on some of those older model Koss and Audio-Technica phones. The headband frame is metal, the driver housings use real screws to attach to the air chambers. And most of these sold for less than $100. Nowadays we have junk that's just thrown together and the prices are upwards of $200 and $300.

Some of the wooden models from Grado and Sony are a big improvement but are certainly not worth the asking prices. It's time for someone to step in and make some serious improvements by going back and reviewing what we used to have and the solid construction and design principles that used to be the norm.

Can't just single out headphones. Cars are the same. Used to be solidy built, now you have a fender bender at 5 MPH and your car is a write-off. Or you get rear-ended by a modern pick-up truck and your trunk is now in the back seat, and the truck only has a scratch on the bumper. The insurance companies and car manufacturers just love this. Or those modern townhouses made out of balsa wood that take only a week to put up an entire block and everything falls apart after two years.

I realise that things have to be less heavy and bulky to be economical and to be comfortable, but this continuous use of cheap plastic for everything is just a cop-out and a 'profit before anything else' attitude.

There are losts of less resonant materials that can be moulded instead of cheap hard honky nasal plastic. Someone should put on their thinking cap and look at speaker design and come up with a nice way to house these nice sounding drivers in a manner so that they are not affected by resonance. Sennheiser takes pride in the carbon fibre design of the HD600 but the carbon fibre is on the headband and bails while the driver area is still molded cheap plastic!!. At least Grado has found a way to make a great sounding cheap headphone by listening and selecting proper materials (a softer plastic, not the brittle crap found on others).

We, as a headphone community, need to put pressure on the manufacturers to stop thinking about themselves and their profits and start paying attention to the needs of their customers. I say we should start making some noise. I think it's time for us to say we are sick and tired of it and we are not going to take it anymore. The headphone manufacturers and designers need to hear our plea.

I'd be interested in your thoughts on this and how we should go about this.
 
Jul 16, 2003 at 2:58 PM Post #2 of 62
I don't care if they are not that 'metally' built
As long as it's sturdy, strong and hard, though plastic, I don't care. take for example, dt250-80. It's all plastic but the plastic on the cup is very hard. dt770 also. I have thrown them around last time.. no problem so far.
What matters most to me is the sound
Audio technica makes some great looking headphones, wooden wow! but I don't like the sound and would rather take those 'plasticky' beyer anytime.
 
Jul 16, 2003 at 3:19 PM Post #3 of 62
I don't mind that the ENTIRE headphone is made of a somewhat soft plastic. But we've seen way too much use of cheap, thin, brittle, nasal, honky, resonant, crappy plastic being used in headphones at EVERY price point. Bleh!
very_evil_smiley.gif
 
Jul 16, 2003 at 3:58 PM Post #4 of 62
Quote:

Originally posted by Beagle
I can never get over my shock at the prices charged for pieces of plastic. Take, for example, the Beyerdynamic headphones.

Remove the pads, and tap your fingernail against the plastic housing that holds the drivers. Man, does it ever sound cheap, hollow and resonant.


Have you ever tried the 770's? You could hammer nails with the earcups, the 770 is built to take a beating...or be sat on
biggrin.gif
 
Jul 16, 2003 at 4:09 PM Post #6 of 62
I don't mind the cheap plastic if it would come with cheap prices.

And cars need to be made of lighter material to be more fuel efficient.

And $100 in the 70s was a lot more than today. With inflation, I think that's at least $200.

and I think i'm done replying.
 
Jul 16, 2003 at 4:43 PM Post #7 of 62
Beagle:

There are many 'plastic' materials that outperform metal. And they're usually more expensive than metal pound for pund.

The plastic used in the Beyerdynamic cans is not "cheap hard honky nasal plastic". It is the best suited material for the task.

Beagle: "Some of the wooden models from Grado and Sony are a big improvement but are certainly not worth the asking prices. It's time for someone to step in and make some serious improvements by going back and reviewing what we used to have and the solid construction and design principles that used to be the norm. "

You are obviously not an engineer, most of what you wrote makes no sense at all.
 
Jul 16, 2003 at 6:08 PM Post #8 of 62
A more exotic build would certainly cost more to make.

How many here would spend say $1500-$3000 on a pair of phones?

In the rest of the HiFi world build[solid build at that!] counts for quite a bit,big slabs of exotic machined alloy etc are common.

The headphone realm where weight is a real issue , thermoplastics rule...but there are other ways.


Setmenu
 
Jul 16, 2003 at 7:08 PM Post #9 of 62
Quote:

Originally posted by geom_tol
The plastic used in the Beyerdynamic cans is not "cheap hard honky nasal plastic". It is the best suited material for the task


Oh come on. Tap your fingers against it and tell me I'm wrong. It's crap.

Quote:

Originally posted by geom_tol
You are obviously not an engineer, most of what you wrote makes no sense at all.


(In my Ralph Kramden voice)

Is that so?" "IS THAT SO?!?"

Well Einstein, perhaps you could enlighten and educate us with some concepts of your own?

I'm talking about the use of metal frames, bails and screws, not hot glue and fused plastic. You could repair the wire on your phones without having to smash them to pieces to get inside. Sennheiser still has the snap together features for quick 'n' easy repair, but think of how much better sounding they would be if they were all 'one piece'?
 
Jul 16, 2003 at 7:21 PM Post #10 of 62
last I saw speakers are using .75" particle board. I used to make mine with at least 2" (and then I'd throw .75" wood on top of that). and what's up with the weird speaker boxes? sorry, you picked another badly designed "design" when you talk about today's speakers.

if you're really worried about resonances inside the cups, line it with sprayable rubber. (I lined my speakers with 1/4" rubber).

the aluminium Grados, I find, are too heavy.

greater tolerances and glue have replaced screws. why? because they are made by machines. what you get in return is consistency. not many people make their own voice coil bobins by hand. (Is the Grado manufacturing floor climate controlled?)

if you truly do not like cheap plastic, don't buy it. just be aware that any other material, other than plastic, will have their own sound colouration, like wood and aluminium do.
 
Jul 16, 2003 at 8:14 PM Post #11 of 62
Quote:

Originally posted by wallijonn
if you're really worried about resonances inside the cups, line it with sprayable rubber. (I lined my speakers with 1/4" rubber)

the aluminium Grados, I find, are too heavy.


Where can I acquire sprayable rubber? Sounds like it might work. Is it a readily available, say in a hardware store, like caulking?

I also agree about the aluminum Grados being too heavy. Not too heavy but I can understand your point. Some prefer the sound with aluminum and can accept the additional mass/weight.
 
Jul 16, 2003 at 8:36 PM Post #12 of 62
How heavy are the alloy Grados?
My Staxs weigh in around 330g , not that light but OK.
I believe the R10s are around 400g.
I suppose it has more to do with the distribution of weight eh?

Setmenu
 
Jul 16, 2003 at 8:42 PM Post #13 of 62
um.. aren't most wooden chambers hand made? and the plastic IS cheaper.. that's why the sr 225 cost so much less than the sr325 ... and the grado plastic is non resonant... and screws vibrate... if you buy from a crappy company like bose you will get crap... but these other ones seem to be doing well.. and did you forget about research and development costs?
 

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