Legendary PCDPs
Jun 5, 2002 at 11:41 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 78

J.Y.

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What makes a PCDP legendary? is its build quality? internal amp? or the DAC/oversampling quality?

The following models are commonly considered "vintage" models from Sony/Panasonic...

Pana SX-500
Pana PA-65 (Not exactly a PCDP)
Sony D-25
Sony D-25s
Sony D-777
Sony D-E01

I know that the SX500 & D-E01 belongs to the same category...
they do not have a very strong amp but is valued for the sound quality from the line-out... The

D-777 seems to be kinda "out there somewhere"...
I has a 1-bit DAC & 18x oversamp. Dunno anything else about it other than it's popular...

The D-25 & some of the older Sony models from the 90s seems to have a very nice phones out w/ a lot a juice...
Very nice indeed.. if battery and error correction is not something you worry about.

PA-65 is more like a newer model of the older Sonys...
It has a very nice phones out(somebody hooked it up w/ a K-1000 and got sufficient volume)
Very surprising!
cons about this unit has to be price(both the unit & its dedicated Lithium battery).


Can someone post more info about Sony D-777? I know many people on this forum has this unit. I really wanna know what made this unit so "valued".
 
Jun 5, 2002 at 11:57 PM Post #2 of 78

gloco

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I have a Sony D-33 which features a 'Dual D/A Converter System'

It also takes 4 AA's!
 
Jun 6, 2002 at 5:13 AM Post #4 of 78

millerdog

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gloco,
I was wondering if you tried your D33 against more contemporary players? Is the sound difference noticable?
Thanks,
md
 
Jun 6, 2002 at 5:20 AM Post #5 of 78

NotoriousBIG_PJ

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From what I've read on these forumns the best of the old stuff is:

sony d555 (i here is has really good eq settings and dual dac)
optimus 3400
sony 905 (not that old but still hard to find)

I'm not sure who owns a d555 or 3000 though...

Biggie.
 
Jun 6, 2002 at 11:23 AM Post #6 of 78

jpelg

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Wasn't there a Denon portable from the early 90's that has been reputed to be the "best" pcdp ever, even beating out (subjectively of course) the famed Radio Shack 3400?

Don't know the model no. though...
 
Jun 6, 2002 at 12:48 PM Post #7 of 78

millerdog

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i'm not sure, but I think all sony portable cd players before and up to the D25(and perhaps beyond) had better DACs. According to another post, the 1 bit DACs came out after the D25. My D25s was made in 1992.
I think it has to do with build quality and sound. There's no skip functions on early players, therefore no compression.
See the above portable reviews.
1 bit DACs are the industry standard now.
I keep looking for that Denon player....
one day I guess..
I am very interested in early portables for they contained SOTA(1985-1988) components.
The quest continues
md
 
Jun 6, 2002 at 8:05 PM Post #8 of 78

purk

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Guys,
I have Sony D-555, D-777, D-E905, D-303, pana sl-s651c (top of 1996), and pana Sx-500(top of 1997). They are all very hard to find. But, honestly speaking the panas are not in the same class with others. However, their sound quality are better than the norm.

And believe me, the dual dac on Sony D-555 is way better than those of D-33. My friend has the D-33...and I did compare them. The D-555 tops them all.

Purk
 
Jun 6, 2002 at 9:49 PM Post #9 of 78

J.Y.

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First of all... Thanks for all the replies.
hmmm.... D777 & D555 in the same class... and both above the D-33 & SX-500...
Guess it is worth buying a new hundred dollar PCDP to trade?
confused.gif


to millerdog: What are these SOTA components you mentioned?
 
Jun 6, 2002 at 9:56 PM Post #10 of 78

gloco

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FWIW: i paid $5 for the D-33 on ebay.
 
Jun 6, 2002 at 10:59 PM Post #11 of 78

lini

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I can add, that my old Sanyo CDP-55A single-handedly beats the Panasonic SL-CT570 (line-outs and headamp used...). An audiophile friend of mine has also got the CDP-55A - and he's also still positively surprised about its sound quality. The headphone out is hissy, though...
wink.gif


Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

P.S.: I'm still after the CDP-1300 and CDP-4300, btw, in order to compare my old Sanyo against new ones and the SL-CT570 and the Philips EXP-201. I've already contacted Sanyo in order to buy both and post a test here, but after a positive response on the phone I dind't get any response for two emails, so I guess the responsible person is on vacation...

P.P.S.: Decent pictures of the CDP-1300 and CDP-4300 can be found here: http://www.sanyo.de/english/pressinf...hifi_porti.htm
 
Jun 7, 2002 at 2:33 AM Post #12 of 78

Duncan

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To clear up a few things here...

Quote:

Originally posted by jlo mein
i thought the 777 was relatively new???

i think its the exact same unit as the 725 (i could be mistaken)...except for the fact that it is asian market and has a fancy display remote....


The D777 was first released in Europe (I believe 1 year later in the US) in 1995... the same year as the models all prefixed with a 3 (Sony changed their numbering system in 1997 or 1998 so that the prefixing number determined how high up the range the player is)... to which end the D777 shares no similarities to the E725

Quote:

Originally posted by NotoriousBIG_PJ
From what I've read on these forumns the best of the old stuff is:

sony d555 (i here is has really good eq settings and dual dac)
.......


Here in the archives is some research that both myself and Saronian did which resulted in proof (in form of datasheets at the end of the thread if the links are still active) that the term 'Dual Dac' refers to a Delta-Sigma DAC which almost ALL modern players have... basically a fancy name for the same DAC found in any other PCDP ~ I would NOT say in the most part that seeing 'Dual DAC' written in the documentation, or printed on the player is a guaranteed sign of good sound... Afterall all the modern Sonys use 'Dual DAC' designs, and we know they suck from the headphone out, albeit they are reprieved by their line out quality.

Quote:

Originally posted by J.Y.
What makes a PCDP legendary? is its build quality? internal amp? or the DAC/oversampling quality?....

...Can someone post more info about Sony D-777? I know many people on this forum has this unit. I really wanna know what made this unit so "valued".


What was legendary about the D777?

It was the first 'super-slim' player from Sony ~ I guess they crammed it full of good quality components to push the fact 'We can build it small, and we can even make it sound half decent' ~ A player for the rich, You have to give them something more than what you can already find in standard players don't you
wink.gif


I think what makes a PCDP legendary is its headphone output... I highly doubt that the Optimus 3400 has the same build quality or DAC as one of the older, higher end Sonys but its one of the most sought after players out there...

The difference between the D777 and the E905? so far as I know apart from a couple of minor chip updates, the biggest change is in the DAC ~ Both are made by Toshiba (also can be noted on the link posted above) but the D777 employs standard 'MegaBass' where the bass boost is added within the amplifier, and the E905s 'Digital MegaBass' is added 'On-DAC'... the E905 line out is cleaner than that of the D777, and so is the headphone out, being much airier (having quite a credible soundstage) but you can ultimately hear the begining of the end for Sony sound quality in this player...

The D777 'auto-equalises' its sound from the headphone out... if there is a huge bass drum or something playing away on your CD, the D777 will distort (between 6-8 on the volume when it begins to run out of steam) a couple of times, and then the distortion will stop, the player having EQ'd the bass to a level it can manage, and it would 'remember' that bass depth througout the rest of the CD, so ~ unless there was heavier bass on another track (where the process would be repeated) there would be no more distortion from the headphone output (but I never actually heard a degradation in the bass depth, its very clever). Whereas this is NOT the case on the E905... so whilst the sound is cleaner, and airier it does NOT have the 'auto-eq' feature, the unit can (although I've only managed it a couple of times) distort

If you like your music loud and bassy and don't mind a minor degradation in sound quality... look for the D777 over the E905... but of course it needs to be said that both players sound rubbish with the bass boost on, the D777 with its 'Auto-EQ' becomes quite spitty with the treble, and the E905 can (as just mentioned) distort (that was how I got the unit to distort if that is of any interest)

Hopefully that clears a few things up
smily_headphones1.gif


Thanks
 
Jun 7, 2002 at 12:03 PM Post #13 of 78

millerdog

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JY,
After spending some hours on google and Yahoo searching for info, I ran across some posts that said early sony pcds had the same dacs and chips that came with the "first" sony commercial home cd player. I think it was the PCD-101?; I should have taken notes.
I think, speculate, guess, whatever that sony, like in the case of the D777 was trying to flex it's muscles and show that they could make a portable and home unit with reference sound. This was before redbook mind you.
I am interested in Dx or Dxx models from sony.
Based upon the build of early sony personal cdps(read pre 1992), I think sony was shooting for the audiophile. Some of the early sonys sold for as much as $300-$400. If you think back to say pre 1988, the transition from tapes to cds for portable audio was still taking place.
I also think audio technology has advanced, and although these players were good in their time, they may or may not be better than cheaper models available now.
If you or anyone else has interest in early sony pcdps, pm or email me.
md
 
Jun 7, 2002 at 5:44 PM Post #14 of 78

bubblegummy

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Hmm.....I have both Sony 777 and DE-J01 and I like DE-J01 more. Of course, 777 has a better headphone out but DE-J01 has a very good line out.....better than 777 line out IMHO. (Both through my CMOY amp and Senn's 580. )

The strange thing is when I plug in my Sony V6 into the headphone out of DE-J01, I notice the sound quality is not as bad as some other people said. The 777 is only a bit better than DE-J01 (and again, IMHO).

biggrin.gif
 
Jun 7, 2002 at 5:49 PM Post #15 of 78

Duncan

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Quote:

Originally posted by bubblegummy
Hmm.....I have both Sony 777 and DE-J01 and I like DE-J01 more. Of course, 777 has a better headphone out but DE-J01 has a very good line out.....better than 777 line out IMHO. (Both through my CMOY amp and Senn's 580. )

The strange thing is when I plug in my Sony V6 into the headphone out of DE-J01, I notice the sound quality is not as bad as some other people said. The 777 is only a bit better than DE-J01 (and again, IMHO).

biggrin.gif


I agree about the line out bubblegummy, as i've mentioned a few times before... the D777 uses an inferior quality DAC (If you read the link in my post up above, that was written BEFORE I had either the E905 or the EJ1000) and the EJ1000 sounds remarkably similar if not exactly the same as the E905 through its line out with the D777 trailing...

The headphone out with the V6... I would say that the EJ1000 sounds better than the D777, the sound is richer ~ The D777 makes the sound slightly clinical, although it is a very different story if you use earbuds... the D777 whoops the EJ1000s butt!! (and the EJ01 and EJ1000 AFAIK use virtually the same circuitry)

The E905 headphone out is the best of the three though (as long as you don't like your music at MAX volume), and its major redeeming feature... probably why its so rare to see one on the used market
smily_headphones1.gif
 

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