[romaz]

Hi, new to Head-fi. Awesome site. I've owned a pair of HE-500s on a Peachtree Nova for a while and I've decided to upgrade. I auditioned a set of Stax 009s on Stax SRM-007tii amp courtesy of Tats at Yama Enterprises recently (approx $7,500 for the combo) and was impressed with this pairing after a 2 hour audition. I have not heard these cans with a better amp (BHSE, Woo, Cavalli, etc) although Tyll Hertsen's recent review on Inner Fidelity suggests this particular Stax amp is more than decent until you crank the volume which I don't tend to do. At less than half the price of the other electrostat amps that were reviewed (at 90% of the performance?), would any head-fiers choose this pairing over an LCD-3 and say a Balancing Act w/ upgraded tubes or Darkstar which would also approach my budget of about 7k for cans/amp. From what I can gather from this site, most people consider, in order of importance, the following hierarchy: headphones>>amp>DAC>source>>cables. If this is the case, it would seem to me that the Stax combo would make more sense. Any thoughts?

Preferred music is jazz, blues, Spanish guitar, classical (guitar, piano, strings, orchestra, organ), some pop, no metal. Planning on Wyred DAC 2 on USB.

 

[wolfetan44]

STAX SR009, destroys everything..

 

[Burma Jones]

Quote:

STAX SR009, destroys everything..

How does a headphone "Destroys" other headphones ? Does it have a superior on board weapon system  compare to other headphones ? LOL !

 

[romaz]

Thanks for your input. I am leaning in this direction but there is hardly anything written about my suggested Stax pairing. I've heard the LCD-3 on a Musical Fidelity M1 DAC/amp and didn't experience the bass slam that people talk about with these cans, certainly not much better, if at all, compared to the Stax 009s. LCD-3s were definitely darker and more laid back which wasn't a surprise but the Stax didn't seem significantly less forgiving, which is what I was expecting. Perhaps the LCD-3 would sound considerably different (with it's purported strengths further enhanced) with a better amp and that is what I am trying to figure out.

 

[Maxvla]

A budget option is an EC Zana Duex SE or Super 7 and HD800 (wow, did I just say budget and $3300? heh...). IMO the LCD-3 are superior to the LCD-2 but not worth twice the price. I like the Darkstar but it is a bit pricey for what you get. EC BA is a solid choice with no down side. It is a great amp that works with anything, much as the Zana Duex does. Headamp GS-X v.2 is a great solid state option that is quite a bit cheaper than the Darkstar.

I like the SR-009 but I've never had it really speak to me. It's a bit impersonal, cold, and lifeless. This might be fixed by upstream device choice, but I haven't heard it happen yet. The headphones are certainly one of the best, if not the best performers available.

In general I have issues with planar drivers (ortho and stats) not getting a good center image and giving me a bit of a two walled sound from approximately 10 and 2 o'clock in my mind's soundstage, but I have heard some planar setups that get close to what I've found in the HD800 in that regard. Aside from when I heard the HE-90, all stats I've heard suffer from this to varying degrees. I've only heard the LCD-2 LCD-3 and HE-6 get an acceptable center when I heard it through Ray Samuel's high end Boulder cd player and Darkstar amp. There were a few other pairings that were close (and better than most stat rigs I've heard) but there were also some that were vastly worse than any stat setup I've heard when speaking solely of the center issue.

 

[romaz]

Thanks for the detailed response, Maxvla. I had read good things about the Zana Deux but because it (and the Liquid Fire) have only single ended ins/outs and because I've heard from some that both the LCDs and HD800 sound better balanced, I found myself drawn more to the Balancing Act and Darkstar (tell me if you disagree).

For my tastes, both the LCDs and HD800 hold their respective unique appeal, however, for the HD800, soundstage is its main appeal. I haven't spent enough time with either of these phones to have even noticed the quality of center imaging; so thank you for pointing this out as I will have to see if I can discern this during my next audition. Nonetheless, taking everything else into consideration, If i were to go with dynamic headphones, I will probably go with the LCD-3s because I feel it has more positives than negatives for me. While I like the LCD-2s a lot, the LCD-3s seem to have the better balanced presentation and since I'm expecting to keep these cans for a while, even though the LCD-3s aren't 2x better, I don't mind paying the extra money (I wish I had a more logical and fiscally-responsible argument, but I don't). Interestingly, I have considered getting both the LCD and HD800 to cover for where the other is lacking but the thought of it seemed overly complicated and wasteful which is what has led me to consider the Stax more seriously as it seems to cover all of my bases with the least compromise. At least, this is my present thinking but that may change once I get to hear some of these better amps you mentioned.

 

[wolfetan44]

Quote:

Quote:

STAX SR009, destroys everything..

How does a headphone "Destroys" other headphones ? Does it have a superior on board weapon system  compare to other headphones ? LOL !

Yep.

 

[paradoxper]

It all depends on preference. For me personally, the EC BA and LCD-3 would do it. I like the visceral presentation
ortho's offer, rather than a more passive (although more detailed) experience you'd get with the Stat rig.
 
You need to keep in mind that no headphone is perfect, no headphone does it all. Factor what's important to you
and deduce from there.
 
IMO, for your musical preferences the 009 is probably most fitting. 

 

[preproman]

Quote:

Hi, new to Head-fi. Awesome site. I've owned a pair of HE-500s on a Peachtree Nova for a while and I've decided to upgrade. I auditioned a set of Stax 009s on Stax SRM-007tii amp courtesy of Tats at Yama Enterprises recently (approx $7,500 for the combo) and was impressed with this pairing after a 2 hour audition. I have not heard these cans with a better amp (BHSE, Woo, Cavalli, etc) although Tyll Hertsen's recent review on Inner Fidelity suggests this particular Stax amp is more than decent until you crank the volume which I don't tend to do. At less than half the price of the other electrostat amps that were reviewed (at 90% of the performance?), would any head-fiers choose this pairing over an LCD-3 and say a Balancing Act w/ upgraded tubes or Darkstar which would also approach my budget of about 7k for cans/amp. From what I can gather from this site, most people consider, in order of importance, the following hierarchy: headphones>>amp>DAC>source>>cables. If this is the case, it would seem to me that the Stax combo would make more sense. Any thoughts?

Preferred music is jazz, blues, Spanish guitar, classical (guitar, piano, strings, orchestra, organ), some pop, no metal. Planning on Wyred DAC 2 on USB.

 
Decisions, Decisions, Decisions.
 
How do you like the HiFiman sound?
 
I'm also think about the EC BA but I'm really not into tube rolling.  So I hope the GS-X MKII does it for me.  Then there's the Schiit Statement amp coming in about 5 to 6 months..  I'm mainly looking for a good amp to pair with the HD800s.  The LCD-3s are more forgiving so any of the amps you named would more than likely work fine.
 
The HD800s is like a finicky cat.  Things have to be just right in the entire chain.  I'll see how the GS-X does before I commit to the EC BA.  I wouldn't buy a Darkstar, to many other good amps coming out for less (maybe).  There's also the Cavalli LAu (it's on hold now).  EC is said to have a new amp coming out as well.  Lots to pick from.
 
Also think about working on your source (DAC).  This can be a even harder decision to make.  

 

[romaz]

It all depends on preference. For me personally, the EC BA and LCD-3 would do it. I like the visceral presentation
ortho's offer, rather than a more passive (although more detailed) experience you'd get with the Stat rig.

You need to keep in mind that no headphone is perfect, no headphone does it all. Factor what's important to you
and deduce from there.

IMO, for your musical preferences the 009 is probably most fitting. 

Sage advice, thanks.

 

[romaz]

Decisions, Decisions, Decisions.

How do you like the HiFiman sound?

I'm also think about the EC BA but I'm really not into tube rolling.  So I hope the GS-X MKII does it for me.  Then there's the Schiit Statement amp coming in about 5 to 6 months..  I'm mainly looking for a good amp to pair with the HD800s.  The LCD-3s are more forgiving so any of the amps you named would more than likely work fine.

The HD800s is like a finicky cat.  Things have to be just right in the entire chain.  I'll see how the GS-X does before I commit to the EC BA.  I wouldn't buy a Darkstar, to many other good amps coming out for less (maybe).  There's also the Cavalli LAu (it's on hold now).  EC is said to have a new SS amp coming out as well.  Lots to pick from.

Also think about working on your source (DAC).  This can be a even harder decision to make.  

I enjoyed my HE-500s which I owned for more than a year until they broke. Speakers began to crackle when you tilted your head from side to side and replacing the cables have done no good. I have a friend who thought he could fix them and since I had been looking to upgrade anyway, I sold them to him "as is" although to date, he has yet to successfully fix them. I heard the HE-6/EF-6 pairing at CES last year and was impressed although I'm not keen to go in that direction because of my perceived quality control issues.

With regards to the Balancing Act, I would prefer not to have to experiment with a variety of tubes either to find what sounds best with a pair of LCD-3s or HD800s but that's why the head-fi community is so invaluable. In the words of Ryan Clarin in his Inner Fidelity review of the Balancing Act, "My personal recommendation is stay with the PX-4 version of the amp, plug in a KR PX-4, and be done with it." I spoke with Craig Uthus, the creator of this amp, and he feels the same way although this represents a $650 upgrade.

I've never heard the Headamp GS-X. It looks good on paper and sounds worthy of further investigation but I've become wary of fully solid state amps (including the Darkstar) for the headphones I'm looking at but I withhold judgement until I get a chance to hear them. I haven't been overly impressed with Schiit. I bought and returned the Lyr. It didnt do anything for me with my HE-500s. I've read enough negative or lukewarm stuff on these forums regarding the Mjolnir with the LCD-3 and HD-800 that I've elected to focus elsewhere.

The DAC issue is a whole 'nother beast that perhaps is best suited for a different thread but I will say this--I've read all the superlatives heaped on the uber DACs like the Weiss DAC 202(>$6k), Resolution Audio Contata (>$10k), or the Diamond DAC IV with Galaxy clock upgrade (>$40k) but this is the technology that I believe will become obsolete the fastest based on how quickly even the most entry-level DACs have evolved. My inclination is that in 2-3 short years, a value-oriented company like Schiit will probably come out with a DAC that can compete squarely with even a Diamond DAC IV for 1/20 of the price. I'm not so sure the same can be said for headphones or amps. Lastly, if one believes that the transducer is the most important piece of the pie, followed by the amp, and finally the DAC and source, it's interesting to see sometimes how people allocate their funds in exactly the opposite order.

 

[Maxvla]

The Dynalo circuit is tried and true. Have no fears about performance from a GS-X. There's a reason they are rare to find on for sale forums. A quick check showed only half a dozen listed for sale in the entirety of 2012. The Mjolnir is a good amp for the money, but it's not up to the performance level you are looking for, as you found.

I agree with your comments regarding obsolescence of DAC technology. This is one of the main reasons why my DAC is the slowest to advance in price. I am waiting to see what Mike does with the statement level DAC from Schiit in about 6 months and then go from there. I'm hoping it will be it, though. In addition to internal technology, it seems connections keep changing with time. Once rare, it is fairly common now to see BNC and AES on premium DACs and now most recently is I2S. It's hard to justify trying to nail down a moving target with too much cash on the line.

I also agree it is ironic that the money goes opposite of priority in many cases. I think a little bit of this is that headphones just aren't very expensive. The ones that are expensive are mostly out of production and can't be easily repaired if there is a fault. People are hesitant to spend $5k or whatever the going rate is for an MDR-R10 due to it's naturally decaying material entering it's MTBF period. Those who might be willing to pay that much for a brand new one will spend that money on another part of the chain that has more longevity (so their money goes further I suppose). Ideally this would go to the amp as it has the highest chance of remaining relevant since amplifier technology is not changing very quickly. Tossing heaps at uber DACs only makes sense if you are completely satisfied and won't be tempted to try the 'latest greatest' every year or two.

 

[paradoxper]

Gonna chime in to Schiit's defense. 
 
I'm not sure how one could ascertain that the Mjolnir isn't up to stuff to the GS-X or other's.
 
There's plenty of people who find the LCD-3 and Mojo better than the EC BA, then there's those who can't reliably tell the difference between the BHA-1 and Mojo.
 
As far as SS amps go the Soloist/Conductor, Mojo, GS-X, BHA-1 and Dark Star do round out the top.
 
IMO, Dark Star is way too costly for what you actually get. And the remaining 4 are equal throughout. With whichever coming out ahead
based on preference.
 
The Liquid Glass and EC BA are what I believe to be the best tubes amps. With strong argument for the Peak.
 
Likewise, DACs are overstated in many ways. The differences when at a certain point are very marginal.
 
The W4S DAC2 is a completely adequate DAC. And I'd advise against upgrading your source sight unseen.

 

[Maxvla]

Try not to get too deep in this solid state vs tubed mindset. Many claim (I have not heard them enough) that most of the Eddie Current tubed amps sound very stereotypically solid state, in that they are highly resolving, transparent, not overly warm or syrupy, and work with headphone impedances all over the map. Also, I've not experienced any significant difference between tubed and solid state when it comes to electrostatic amps. They all sound similar.

 

[paradoxper]

Good enough point. Even though EC amps do tend to sound more SS, they'e still among the most favored tube amps.
 
I completely agree with you when it comes to electrostatic amps. The KGSSHV sounds just as good as the BHSE, for example.