LAiV Harmony R2R DAC Impression and Reviews

Dec 17, 2024 at 5:35 PM Post #1,981 of 2,158
I have a question for you gamers out there. I'm thinking about getting the LAIV DAC. I use my DACs for music and video games. Is there any audio delay with the LAIV? I read that it initially had behavior similar to Denafrips DACs, where there is lag for gaming (Does not matter for music). I plan to use it with the Holo Red connected via AES until I get a decent I2S cable.
Same here: I play with the YouTube app on my Android TV. That means optical to Laiv Harmony. There is no lag whatsoever. Which is pretty important for watching movies too. 😉
 
Dec 17, 2024 at 7:12 PM Post #1,982 of 2,158
Yes, 2 channels because we have only two ears. I've played CDs since they first hit the market. For me it's more than a hobby as I need to listen & compare other people's performances, this being my profession as a performing classical musician! I started with the original Sony / Marantz players, then a Denon SACD player before buying my first stand-alone DAC to which I fed the output from the Denon. The first dac was a Gustard X16, followed by R26 then I bought a HALCRO SACD player. Then Discovered LAiV and found that the CD file included on a SACD sounded better through the Harmony dac than the SACD through the HALCRO. Better, for me, being more realistic & not simply comparing one dac with another. I've spent all my life with live, non-amplified music, mainlyin the middle of a symphony orchestra. Now I have an even better CD transport (TEAC VRDS) and am getting the best sound ever. I've had disagreements over the years with some who tell me "bits are bits and you can't hear any difference", so I've had to justify my hearing saying that I don't imagine it - if I can hear it, then it's real - please see my forum post here, number 1,209 on page 81.

I find this a very interesting take. And I can relate to it even though I do not play any instrument other than my own voice. And I've been on the other side for a good while doing PA and recording. Unfortunately very handicapped by the equipment I had to work with. Capturing acoustical instruments wasn't easy (with SM57's). Reinventing the wheel every other week. But I know what acoustical instruments sound like.
It's annoying that they always saw me as their minion sound engineer more than a singer. While I sing a heck of a lot better than most of them.

Anyway, what really captures me in the sound from the Laiv is how real instruments sound. Comparing to other DACs. Playing vinyl voices are even more real. But I understand that vinyl is not ideal for a lot of classical music (about ⅓ of my collection).

I took the leap to the Laiv Harmony instead of the Denafrips Venus 1xth knowing I would give up native DSD, which really is better in my experience. Much closer to vinyl. But I rather have almost perfect PCM than great DSD on a few selected recordings.

Now the problem with SACD-players is that the format is in fact master quality. And Sony is really bullish on their priceless vault of masters. Understandable. But this calls for rigorous copy protection so that every SACD-player is bound to the hip to the DAC inside the same case. And these, unfortunately, are not evolving at all and are really staying behind compared to the latest high end DACs. The result being that the CD layer sounds better on the latest and greatest DACs than the DSD64 via the internal ageing DAC technology.

That said: DSD still sounds great on the Laiv Harmony even if it is converted internally to PCM705.6. And I strongly prefer my high resolution flacs and dsd files over old Redbook pcm44.1 standard. This is an easy win. Many CDs are badly mastered in general, classical music is the exception there.

Now that I have my HP2a hooked up to my new Hifiman HE1000 I can really compare coax and USB (to i²s via Akliam DDC). Also because via HP I play louder, I now hear so many instruments just naturally emerging in the soundstage because I recognise their timbre.
I prefer the USB/i²s over coax. Not that coax is bad, not at all, but USB sounds just a bit more engaging, fuller, more lush. Coax sounds a bit tighter, restrained.

@2bxfile
I've known Hans Beekhuizen ever since he wrote in our local paper print Hifi Video Test Magazine. I never thought of their reviews as authoritative as say, the HFN&RR from the UK and German publications. So I still have that same feel with HB, while Tarun is much better at listening and giving his report on that.

I don't care much about measurements. Lately again reaffirmed by an engineering bureau measuring noise and vibrations in my appartement. I'm shaking in my bed every morning. And I hear a constant drone of 89.2Hz. I did not measure that, I hear that and compared it to a sinal generator. Like tuning a string instrument. They could not measure that with a professional calibrated dB meter. But I hear it all the time.
 
Dec 18, 2024 at 4:03 PM Post #1,983 of 2,158
Today I was testings Connections
I2S very short MPS 0,5 Meters very good quality
Vs USB cable most cheaper.
And my conclusion I feel USB SQ is just little bit better. Like I sad earlier I2S playing most midrange, USB sound like V equaliser, but still have a good Midrange.
I2S is moore dense.
And most important things USB connection have higher dynamics (not because bass is just little bit higher), details and separation. I hope I'm helpfully. Transport Holo Red
 
Dec 18, 2024 at 4:37 PM Post #1,985 of 2,158
And my conclusion I feel USB SQ is just little bit better. Like I sad earlier I2S playing most midrange, USB sound like V equaliser, but still have a good Midrange.
I2S is moore dense.
And most important things USB connection have higher dynamics
I guarantee both the I2S and USB connection have the same dynamics, it's just a matter of cable selection.

From the owner's manual; Supported formats....
USB
- PCM:44.1kHz- 768kHz | DSD: DSD64- DSD256
I2S- PCM: 44.1kHz- 768kHz | DSD: DSD64- DSD256

So yeah, cable selection :wink:

I use I2S coming from the Denafrips Iris DDC to the Pontus. I use a Supra HDMI cable. Going into the Iris is the Supra Excalibur cable connected between PC and Iris. Sound quality is excellent there.
 
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Dec 18, 2024 at 5:37 PM Post #1,987 of 2,158
I guarantee both the I2S and USB connection have the same dynamics, it's just a matter of cable selection.

From the owner's manual; Supported formats....
USB
- PCM:44.1kHz- 768kHz | DSD: DSD64- DSD256
I2S- PCM: 44.1kHz- 768kHz | DSD: DSD64- DSD256

So yeah, cable selection :wink:

I use I2S coming from the Denafrips Iris DDC to the Pontus. I use a Supra HDMI cable. Going into the Iris is the Supra Excalibur cable connected between PC and Iris. Sound quality is excellent there.
You may already be aware, but the manual is outdated as it relates to DSD capability. The Harmony will process DSD512 without issue.
 
Dec 18, 2024 at 8:47 PM Post #1,988 of 2,158
I guarantee both the I2S and USB connection have the same dynamics, it's just a matter of cable selection.

From the owner's manual; Supported formats....
USB
- PCM:44.1kHz- 768kHz | DSD: DSD64- DSD256
I2S- PCM: 44.1kHz- 768kHz | DSD: DSD64- DSD256

So yeah, cable selection :wink:

I use I2S coming from the Denafrips Iris DDC to the Pontus. I use a Supra HDMI cable. Going into the Iris is the Supra Excalibur cable connected between PC and Iris. Sound quality is excellent there.
You may already be aware, but the manual is outdated as it relates to DSD capability. The Harmony will process DSD512 without issue.
I'm talking file format support per input connection. Only I2S and USB support a sampling rate greater than 192kHz. Nor do they support DSD....

LAIV Supported Formats.jpg


From page 22 of the downloadable owner' manual > here...

Anyway, my point, not necessarily related to the above per se, was to venomas200's post saying USB was better than I2S, and I'm saying that's just a matter of cable choice.
 
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Dec 18, 2024 at 9:31 PM Post #1,989 of 2,158
I’m using USB here, and I’m happy with it so far. I’d rather spend my money on tube rolling than on trying different USB cables.
 
Dec 18, 2024 at 10:18 PM Post #1,990 of 2,158
I'm talking file format support per input connection. Only I2S and USB support a sampling rate greater than 192kHz. Nor do they support DSD....

LAIV Supported Formats.jpg

From page 22 of the downloadable owner' manual > here...

Anyway, my point, not necessarily related to the above per se, was to venomas200's post saying USB was better than I2S, and I'm saying that's just a matter of cable choice.
I wasn't criticizing. your response, I was just trying to be helpful.
 
Dec 18, 2024 at 11:30 PM Post #1,991 of 2,158
I wasn't criticizing. your response, I was just trying to be helpful.
If you look for discord you'll find it. I never thought you were criticizing; I was just making sure my point got across.

All good.
 
Dec 19, 2024 at 2:25 AM Post #1,992 of 2,158
I wasn't criticizing. your response, I was just trying to be helpful.
Interesting, no DoP64 at the minimum over those connections
 
Dec 19, 2024 at 4:38 AM Post #1,993 of 2,158
I guarantee both the I2S and USB connection have the same dynamics, it's just a matter of cable selection.
I agree with first one and disagree with the second one (except that cables always matter).

1. I think I2S has no sound signature by the nature.
2. I2S final sound depends on device connected on the other end.
 
Dec 19, 2024 at 10:53 AM Post #1,994 of 2,158
Interesting, no DoP64 at the minimum over those connections
I noticed that too, but it's kind of pointless isn't it. Convert to DSD over PCM (DoP) just to have it converted to PCM at the end.
 
Dec 20, 2024 at 9:06 AM Post #1,995 of 2,158
While I know that the XLR and RCA outputs can't be used simultaneously, I'm curious if there is a noticeable difference in sound between the RCA and XLR outputs of this DAC. Moved on from a Yggdrasil and highly considering trying out one of these to feed my ZMF Aegis.

Also, how is the USB implementation? Is I2s really favorable over it?

Thanks!
 

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