LAiV Harmony R2R DAC Impression and Reviews

Dec 15, 2024 at 8:41 PM Post #1,966 of 2,158
Goldensound posted upthread he did some measurements that suggest the LAiV's 'NOS' mode is similar to/the same as Denafrips. There was a bit of discussion around this.
Thanks Jake.

I guess that puts my question to rest - no true NOS.

Can you tell me, when a dac has a quasi NOS setting versus having a true NOS, how does that translate to us the listener? What would we hear (in your opinion) if the Laiv had a true NOS and not the "kind" of NOS it has now? Would we hear a difference or does it only matter if the owner wanted to use HQP with it?

Thanks.
 
Dec 15, 2024 at 10:58 PM Post #1,967 of 2,158
Thanks Jake.

I guess that puts my question to rest - no true NOS.

Can you tell me, when a dac has a quasi NOS setting versus having a true NOS, how does that translate to us the listener? What would we hear (in your opinion) if the Laiv had a true NOS and not the "kind" of NOS it has now? Would we hear a difference or does it only matter if the owner wanted to use HQP with it?

Thanks.
I’ll defer to the technical expert here, GS, who reckons the audible difference is ‘up for debate’ - see his quoted post.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/laiv-harmony-r2r-dac-impression-and-reviews.972522/post-18284790
 
Dec 16, 2024 at 4:15 AM Post #1,968 of 2,158
Hello Flluty:

Can you tell me what dacs you've owned in the past and how you would rate or compare them to the Laiv? Is this your first R2R?

Thanks.

p.s. I see that you are a 2 channel listener also
Yes, 2 channels because we have only two ears. I've played CDs since they first hit the market. For me it's more than a hobby as I need to listen & compare other people's performances, this being my profession as a performing classical musician! I started with the original Sony / Marantz players, then a Denon SACD player before buying my first stand-alone DAC to which I fed the output from the Denon. The first dac was a Gustard X16, followed by R26 then I bought a HALCRO SACD player. Then Discovered LAiV and found that the CD file included on a SACD sounded better through the Harmony dac than the SACD through the HALCRO. Better, for me, being more realistic & not simply comparing one dac with another. I've spent all my life with live, non-amplified music, mainlyin the middle of a symphony orchestra. Now I have an even better CD transport (TEAC VRDS) and am getting the best sound ever. I've had disagreements over the years with some who tell me "bits are bits and you can't hear any difference", so I've had to justify my hearing saying that I don't imagine it - if I can hear it, then it's real - please see my forum post here, number 1,209 on page 81.
 
Dec 16, 2024 at 7:23 AM Post #1,969 of 2,158
Query: would you be able to tell me if your Laiv dac is a "true" NOS dac? For instance, the Holo's Cyan 2 is a true NOS dac.
I believe all the matters is final result we can hear from DAC. Is it 'true' NOS or 'close to' NOS it doesn't really matter if what you hear is satisfying you.
I compared Holo May with my LAIV in three different systems and there is no advantage one over another in PCM. Holo May (Cyan 2 is not the competition here) has some advantage in DSD only and now depends on personal music library and preference which one is to go.
 
Dec 16, 2024 at 8:07 AM Post #1,971 of 2,158
I believe all the matters is final result we can hear from DAC. Is it 'true' NOS or 'close to' NOS it doesn't really matter if what you hear is satisfying you.
I compared Holo May with my LAIV in three different systems and there is no advantage one over another in PCM. Holo May (Cyan 2 is not the competition here) has some advantage in DSD only and now depends on personal music library and preference which one is to go.
Thanks Rafabro:

Thank you for your insight into the comparison between the May and Harmony. Invaluable to know this. Can you tell me how you like the USB input? Is it as good as the Holo?

I was really looking for a response to my first entry on this thread as this is the most important item to me as I consider the Harmony Laiv. Fluty gave me some information on the two inputs in his experience (which I appreciate) but I hope that either you or another member here who owns this dac could field this question for me as well.

"Been looking at this thread from time to time as I'm in the market for a new dac and the Laiv is on my shortlist.

One question I'd like to throw out there with the hopes that some or more might be able to field is with the Liav's inputs, namely the coax and optical.

I follow a number of reviewers and the one that got me thinking enough to arrive here with my question was Tarun at the "British Audiophile" channel. Tauran found that the two above mentioned input's sonic abilities were not equal to it's i2s and USB inputs.

He mentioned that it was not uncommon for there to be sonic quality differences between inputs on the same dac, but at this price point, it was not quite acceptable and in fact, the two aforementioned inputs (coax/optical) had quite a sonic quality spread from the other two on the Laiv when compared to the same inputs on other dacs in this same class. - less clean. Furthermore, he mentioned that these two inputs sounded "almost" comparable to the ones on his Ares 12-1, but at a thousand pounds richer.

Two queries:

What I wanted to find out from this group is if others heard the same sonic differences in the Laiv's inputs as Tarun did?

Lastly, if someone has also identified these two inputs as not as well done by Harmony is this then a deficiency that can be rectified through a future firmware update or are the weakeness in these two inputs permanet and therefore will only be rectified with a Laiv 2.0 revision i.e. an upgrade?"

Thanks,
 
Dec 16, 2024 at 8:54 AM Post #1,972 of 2,158
Can you tell me how you like the USB input? Is it as good as the Holo?
I would say comparable and both good. But with clear own sound signature in LAiV, stronger then Holo one. I discovered it when I was comparing these two DAC's through I2S and Pink Faun I2S card. Through I2S they sounded much more similar, both cleaner with blacker background.
But USB makes them more unique with clear own signature. I like both presentation. Harmony USB sound more like analog old days :)

Sorry, can't say anything about coax. I don't use them at all.
 
Dec 16, 2024 at 9:04 AM Post #1,973 of 2,158
Thanks Rafabro:
Harmony USB sound more like analog old days :)
I like your observation very, very much.

Are you using a player with your Harmony? Have you ever used HQ Player with it and if so, what were your findings?

Are you still using the Pink Faun or are you now using a DDC stand alone?

Do you believe that the Harmony performs just as well with USB straight out of the computer as it does with an intermediate DDC in between via i2s, since it's USB is so well done?
 
Dec 16, 2024 at 9:08 AM Post #1,974 of 2,158
I have a question for you gamers out there. I'm thinking about getting the LAIV DAC. I use my DACs for music and video games. Is there any audio delay with the LAIV? I read that it initially had behavior similar to Denafrips DACs, where there is lag for gaming (Does not matter for music). I plan to use it with the Holo Red connected via AES until I get a decent I2S cable.
 
Dec 16, 2024 at 11:18 AM Post #1,975 of 2,158
Are you using a player with your Harmony? Have you ever used HQ Player with it and if so, what were your findings?

Are you still using the Pink Faun or are you now using a DDC stand alone?

Do you believe that the Harmony performs just as well with USB straight out of the computer as it does with an intermediate DDC in between via i2s, since it's USB is so well done?
I use JRiver installed on dedicated PC Audio with SOTM USB card with external clock and linear power supply for whole PC, card and separate for the clock.
I own Pink Faun card, but with standard clock in it. The one I was testing was my friends Pink Faun card with OCXO. My with standard clock is not at the same SQ level so I stay with built in USB which I like very much.

I am curious about upcoming uDDC from LAiV. Can't wait for users review if is worth it.

Harmony (as any other DAC) will perform good as much input quality allows to perform. I tested multiple times that standard USB pc output is not the best quality and will limit final SQ from DAC. Then I would definitely recommend go for DDC to isolate noise from ordinary computer.
It is not USB weakness, it's just source limitation (for any DAC).
 
Dec 16, 2024 at 12:58 PM Post #1,978 of 2,158
I have a question for you gamers out there. I'm thinking about getting the LAIV DAC. I use my DACs for music and video games. Is there any audio delay with the LAIV? I read that it initially had behavior similar to Denafrips DACs, where there is lag for gaming (Does not matter for music). I plan to use it with the Holo Red connected via AES until I get a decent I2S cable.
I've been feeding my TV through the LAiV via optical and there's no delay.
 
Dec 16, 2024 at 1:49 PM Post #1,979 of 2,158
I use JRiver installed on dedicated PC Audio with SOTM USB card with external clock and linear power supply for whole PC, card and separate for the clock.
I own Pink Faun card, but with standard clock in it. The one I was testing was my friends Pink Faun card with OCXO. My with standard clock is not at the same SQ level so I stay with built in USB which I like very much.

I am curious about upcoming uDDC from LAiV. Can't wait for users review if is worth it.

Harmony (as any other DAC) will perform good as much input quality allows to perform. I tested multiple times that standard USB pc output is not the best quality and will limit final SQ from DAC. Then I would definitely recommend go for DDC to isolate noise from ordinary computer.
It is not USB weakness, it's just source limitation (for any DAC).
Thanks for the information Rafabro - much appreciated.

The dacs that I'm looking at are of course, the Harmony, but also the Pontus 15 and the Holo Cyan 2.

I've watched many videos on these dacs. Not many reviews on the Pontus 15 are available, more on the Harmony and a myriad for the C2 on YouTube. People love the C2 it seems.

Uncle Hans really likes the Cyan 2 and surprisingly, did not have a positive view of the Laiv dac (at that price anyways) other than the looks.

Under the video chapter "Sound Quality", he gives his impression of both the C2 and the Laiv. Interesting listen!



And the Cyan 2.



Thanks again.
 
Dec 16, 2024 at 1:51 PM Post #1,980 of 2,158
After I2S the sound is the best in my opinion it plays the most in the middle it is more dense. Then USB. Finally Coaxial it is really interesting because it plays completely differently a little thinner, but in some systems it may be the best.
That's very interesting Venomas. This confirms Tauran's observation on the British Audiophile channel.
 

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