L0rdGwyn's DIY Audio
Dec 20, 2019 at 6:28 PM Post #61 of 6,785
Okay, with all of that being said, other than the obvious heat dissipation that will take place in the power supply, do you see any negative consequences of adding this resistance?

Can't think of any negative consequences at this time, but if you have some time to throw together an LTSpice file of your schematic with all of the parameters for each part and send the .asc file over to me I can run a few sweeps I have in mind. I can throw it together myself, but may take some time for me to get around to it as I'm currently in the middle of a housing move that's taking most of my spare time and feels like a tornado went through my place :cloud_tornado::dizzy_face:
 
Dec 20, 2019 at 8:08 PM Post #62 of 6,785
Can't think of any negative consequences at this time, but if you have some time to throw together an LTSpice file of your schematic with all of the parameters for each part and send the .asc file over to me I can run a few sweeps I have in mind. I can throw it together myself, but may take some time for me to get around to it as I'm currently in the middle of a housing move that's taking most of my spare time and feels like a tornado went through my place :cloud_tornado::dizzy_face:

Fantastic, glad to hear no immediately obvious issues. I would really appreciate you running the sweeps. I'm out of town for the weekend so don't have access to the schematic, I'll get it prepped and send it to you next week. Obviously no rush, especially with the holidays coming up. Good luck with your move!

Landfall sent me a photo of the anodized chassis, looks good to me in gold :ksc75smile:

IMG_20191220_170857.jpg
 
Dec 21, 2019 at 11:52 AM Post #63 of 6,785
Hey @A2029 , here is the question I mentioned I had for you. I'll explain why these design considerations are important after all the technical chat afterward for others!

I've made some specific design changes to my power supply for this amp, wanted to explain why and get your $0.02 on them. Here is a chicken-scatch schematic of the HT circuit:



The first change I made was adding 150ohm resistance between the mains transformer secondary and the rectifier. The U18/20 datasheet states a minimum R-source value of 180ohms for a maximum input capacitor value of 16uF. The secondary resistance of the Lundahl LL1650 mains transformer I plan to use is ~20ohm. I've added this resistor to make up the difference to protect the rectifier and prevent arcing. If I keep it, would not be a 150ohm resistor, more likely two 75ohm, three 50ohm etc. with the appropriate wattage. Probably doesn't need to be quite this high since I am only using a 6.8uF input cap, but just for the sake of the example.

The second change I made was adding some series resistance across both LC filters. I have been using Morgan Jones Valve Amplifiers book as a resource. Following his method (and because I am still working on figuring out some of this functionality in LTSpice), I modeled my power supply in PSUD2 without this resistance added. What I found is there is some minor ringing present. Here is a plot from PSUD2 without any of the added resistance. It is a stepped current load, increasing from 10mA to 160mA at 300ms to elucidate the ringing. May be hard to appreciate here (doing this on my laptop so the plot is a bit squished), but there is ringing on the output in the form of capacitor voltage variations. Note that this is without any "soft-start" enabled. Green is the 65uF cap and blue is the 175uF cap.



From reading Valve Amplifiers, I understand that to provide adequate damping of this LC filter ringing, we are targeting a Q factor of 0.5. The formula for Q factor is:

Q = 1/R * sqrt(L/C)

So to provide additional damping, we can 1) increase C 2) increase R or 3) decrease L. Well increasing C is not preferable as these Clarity Caps are already enormous! Likewise, decreasing L is not a great option since I am then loosing valuable ripple filtering. Increasing R seems best and gives me the most bang for my buck. So, by adding 150ohms in series with each LC filter, we get this:



Again, might be hard to see, but at least visually, the voltage variation is gone on the output and the ringing appears to be well-damped. Obviously there will be a significant voltage drop from adding these resistors, but this is actually preferable for me as I have a bit too much B+ to work with, getting it down to 240-270V is a good place for where I want to bias the power tubes. The resistance could also be added by getting custom chokes made with a higher DC resistance and max current rating.

So, by adding these resistors before the rectifier and in series with the inductors, I am trying to accomplish the following:

1) protect the rectifier from current spikes, arcing
2) decrease the Q factor of the filter section and damp any ringing
3) drop the B+ to my preferred bias point

Okay, with all of that being said, other than the obvious heat dissipation that will take place in the power supply, do you see any negative consequences of adding this resistance?

Just to make good on my promise to explain why these changes are being made to the power supply (if I haven't bored everyone to death already and driven them away :))

Resistance added between mains transformer and rectifier:
If you look at a tube rectifier datasheet, you will see a "R source" or "source resistance". This is referring to the resistance to current flow between transformer and rectifier. If the resistance isn't suitably high, it can lead to large "inrush current" or "input surge current" when the amplifier is turned on and the first capacitor in the power supply begins to charge. The larger the capacitor, the more current it is going to demand when the voltage on the rectifier side rises above zero. Center-tapped mains transformers are typically used with a tube rectifier and have higher secondary winding resistance for this reason, somewhere around 100ohm. However, I am using a non-center tapped transformer with a 20ohm secondary winding resistance which are more commonly paired with solid state rectification. Solid state rectifiers are able to tolerate higher surge currents and don't suffer from the same fragility as tube rectifiers. To prevent these current spikes and arcing, additional resistance needs to be placed after the transformer secondary winding to meet the R-source requirement of the tube rectifier.

Resistance in series with L-C filter inductors:
To keep this to the point, there is stored energy within these filter circuits passed from the inductor (filter choke) to the capacitor. A higher resistance in the circuit will allow this energy to be released as heat. Without this resistance, the filter acts as an oscillator and the energy is released as low frequency oscillations. Depending on the frequency of this oscillation and its harmonics (which is dependent on the respective values of the choke's inductance and the capacitor's capacitance), can leak into the audio band and be heard, which is bad for our amplifier's performance. The additional resistance added to this portion of the circuit damps this oscillation and allows the energy to be released as heat so it has no ill effects on the sound of the amplifier.

Did some editing, hope this makes sense.
 
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Dec 26, 2019 at 10:50 AM Post #64 of 6,785
A beautiful pair of power tubes reached my door today, 1942 Fivre 6L6G black plates, foil getters. Both tubes test 120%+ on my Jackson tester, looks to have been a good purchase.

IMAG1537.jpg IMAG1535.jpg

I am sorry for not updating the thread, the power supply is undergoing some heavy revisions. Will update when the true final design is complete.
 
Dec 26, 2019 at 3:23 PM Post #65 of 6,785
A beautiful pair of power tubes reached my door today, 1942 Fivre 6L6G black plates, foil getters. Both tubes test 120%+ on my Jackson tester, looks to have been a good purchase.



I am sorry for not updating the thread, the power supply is undergoing some heavy revisions. Will update when the true final design is complete.

Uhhhhhh. These tubes will probably conflict with your overall design. Pmed.
 
Jan 7, 2020 at 6:30 PM Post #66 of 6,785
At long last, I have some updates on the amp building front.

After NUMEROUS iterations, and with the input of @Tjj226 Angel , the power supply design is complete, for real this time.

Here are the highlights:

Lundahl LL1650 350V mains transformer
U18/20 rectification (and equivalents) in hybrid diode full wave bridge
Capacitor input CLCLC filter - first LC will consist of Lundahl LL2742 10H choke, second LC will consist of two Lundahl LL1685 17H chokes
Input capacitor will be a Clarity Cap TC2 10uF 800V
Second 100uF filler cap make and model TBD
Final supply caps will be Clarity Cap TC4 130uF 600V

The first tap in the supply at the 100uF cap will go to the MH4 CCS boards. The second tap in the supply at the 130uF cap will go to the power tubes. Given the size of these two chokes, the ripple on the output will be in the 10s of microvolts range. Here is the LTSpice diagram:

PS final.png

Speaking of power tubes, another major change has been made. While I will still be holding onto the EL34 for the sake of trying them out, I have abandoned the idea of a power tube biasing switch and have even changed the power tubes altogether. Rather than using triode-strapped pentodes, I will be using a rather uncommon power tube.

It is the 6A5G, basically an indirectly-heated 6.3V version of the 2A3. Here is an article on the tube:

http://vinylsavor.blogspot.com/2019/12/tube-of-month-6a5.html

So why the change? With this tube, you get many of the advantages of the directly-heated triodes, mainly the linearity, but with a lower noise floor and no need for a DC filament supply.

The linearity of a vacuum tube can be assessed by the spacing between its grid curves. The more evenly these are spaced, the less second harmonic distortion is generated by the amplifier as the voltage swings back and forth along the load line.

As an example of this linearity, here is the load line and bias point for the Philips E424N, a near equivalent of the MH4 that will be used in this amp, with its 6mA CCS load. Please note this bias point is not optimized for the E424N, this is where it will be biased based on the chosen MH4 bias point, which is optimal, but this set of curves better illustrates my point. Side note, the cathode bias resistor for the driver tubes will no longer have a bypass capacitor given the CCS loading. One less cap in the signal path, yay!

E424N.png

And on the output, here is the load line and bias point for the 6A5G with a 3.3k load, which will be cathode biased with bypass cap (these are 2A3 curves, which are identical to the 6A5G).

2A3.png

Hopefully you can see that the grid curve spacing along these load lines, and especially near the bias points, are very even, which should yield low distortion and make for an excellent sounding amplifier :)

That is all I have for now, I am expecting some components this week for my test bench, so I will post some updates on that front when I have them. After the bench is ready to go, the next step will be to buy parts and finally start building!!!

Edit: correction on the 10H Lundahl choke, the LL2742, not the LL2741.
 
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Jan 7, 2020 at 7:33 PM Post #67 of 6,785
Here is a draft of the interior chassis layout, major components only, this is a rough draft so very much subject to change, everything is to scale. The chokes will be mounted to the side panel walls, all capacitors are mounted radially. For the sake of drilling less holes in the chassis and less unsightly screws on top, going to try and consolidate screw holes between the bottom corners of the CCS boards and MH4 sockets, as well as the top corners of the CCS boards and the 0.47uF capacitor clamps. We'll see how that goes.

Yes, the Clarity Caps are huge, but it all fits.

Layout.png
 
Jan 11, 2020 at 4:26 PM Post #68 of 6,785
I made a thing today.

It is a switchable headphone dummy load for taking measurements. Sure I could have just used some alligator clips and cheap resistors, but why take the easy road when I can work on a needlessly complex and frustrating project?

It has four sets of wirewound, non-inductive resistors to simulate a headphone load for the amplifier being measured, 32ohm, 80ohm, 120ohm, and 300ohm. The wattages are way overkill, but it was what was available non-inductive. The 1/4" TRS input is on the back and individual left and right channel BNC connectors on the front.

The the measurement chain goes like so:

Signal generator > amplifier > dummy load > signal analyzer.

Obviously this isn't a necessity, but a fun little project and it will be very convenient for future measurements.

IMAG1632.jpg IMAG1633.jpg IMAG1631.jpg
 
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Jan 11, 2020 at 6:38 PM Post #69 of 6,785
I made a thing today.

It is a switchable headphone dummy load for taking measurements. Sure I could have just used some alligator clips and cheap resistors, but why take the easy road when I can work on a needlessly complex and frustrating project?

It has four sets of wirewound, non-inductive resistors to simulate a headphone load for the amplifier being measured, 32ohm, 80ohm, 120ohm, and 300ohm. The wattages are way overkill, but it was what was available non-inductive. The 1/4" TRS input is on the back and individual left and right channel BNC connectors on the front.

The the measurement chain goes like so:

Signal generator > amplifier > dummy load > signal analyzer.

Obviously this isn't a necessity, but a fun little project and it will be very convenient for future measurements.


Why do I forsee members wanting to order their own KOTL?
 
Jan 11, 2020 at 8:28 PM Post #70 of 6,785
Jan 11, 2020 at 10:25 PM Post #71 of 6,785
Why do I forsee members wanting to order their own KOTL?

Haha we will see! Have to get one under my belt first. I feel good about it though, I think this is going to be one heck of an amp. Not sure anyone else would pay for it, there are some bonkers expensive components going in.

Might have to take out a loan for these amorphous core Lundahl transformers...and the Lundahl chokes...and the Clarity Caps...sheesh.
 
Jan 11, 2020 at 10:37 PM Post #72 of 6,785
Haha we will see! Have to get one under my belt first. I feel good about it though, I think this is going to be one heck of an amp. Not sure anyone else would pay for it, there are some bonkers expensive components going in.

Might have to take out a loan for these amorphous core Lundahl transformers...and the Lundahl chokes...and the Clarity Caps...sheesh.
Reminds me of an amp I'm familiar with. Go big or go home I say :darthsmile:
 
Jan 21, 2020 at 4:50 PM Post #73 of 6,785
I have on hand the power tubes that will be featured in this amp, a pair of Philco branded Sylvania 6A5G. These ones are from their first year of production, 1937. The boxes show it, I can't help but feel like I am breathing in something toxic every time I open them. Nice looking tubes, looking forward to getting them in this amp. I recently made some layout changes to my two-channel system to better take advantage of my room and I have rediscovered my love of stereo listening. I am going to put some speaker binding posts on this amp and pair it with some sensitive speakers. So the project is now more of a 3W SET speaker amp with a headphone output rather than a strict headphone amp, although the design doesn't change at all, I'll just be throwing a switch on the front panel to select speaker or headphone out.

IMAG1659-2.jpg IMAG1660-2.jpg IMAG1662-2.jpg
 
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Jan 21, 2020 at 6:24 PM Post #75 of 6,785
The good old days when consumer products could be wrapped in asbestos :dizzy_face: (joking)

Between the asbestosis and the lead poisoning I'll be dead in 10 years, but I'll die with a smile on my face listening to pure class A :ksc75smile:
 

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