kwkarth, Neruda!

[Xander]

Tell me about the Sennheiser HD580's (or 600's). You are fellow AKG men. I'm in need of a phone that contains more low freq information while listening to some music. Are these the cans for me? Also, specificly.. Where do they appear to roll off to your ears, whereas the bass becomes unusable?

Second, what amplifier suits them best (less then $2000). I'll never save that up in time before it burns a hole in my pocket.

 

[Neruda]

according to Tim D, the Beyer DT931 sounds almost identical to the K501, but with better bass/treble extension. Although personally I wouldn't trust him: he's pretty much insane.

check out the FR graph comparisons:

the bass on the senns does go deeper. but it does so at the expense of (to my ears) sounding exagerated and a bit slow. It's that extra 2-4 db from 500Hz down that's giving me fits. From one AKG fan to another: I'd say no, they're not for you. the beyers might be; I wish I'd listened to them. They look pretty bright, but there are ways to fix that a bit.

 

[Xander]

I thought the bass on the 580s was kindof slow, too.. But I was listenong on the OBH11, some people said it seemed slow on that amp as well..

I really didnt prefer the drastic laid back sound, but it's not something that I cant enjoy. I just dont prefer it. I also though the soundstage had more depth then the K401/501, although now on my new amp there seems to be much more depth then before, so I'm not sure how far apart they are as far as that goes.

The search continues.. What's striking is the response graph.. I can deal with brightness, since the music I'll be listening to will mostly be classical stuff. Looking at that graph, I'm estounded at the fact that the beyers appear to produce 20hz very well. Infact, it almost looks like that response was tailored to heav upward to compensate for humans lack of hearing in the lower regions...

Interesting.

 

[Xander]

Also, I hate normalized graphs.

 

[Xander]

http://headphone.com/layout.php?topi...tID=0020110931

Beyerdynamic DT931
Beyerdynamic's top of the line open headphone. A little thin on bass, but good otherwise. Full-Sized Headphones Sealed $329.00 $289.00



what? Did he say thin on the bass?

 

[Tim D]

Thats the frequency response of the DT931. If you really want to understand graphs you need to read up on the normalization methodology and the headphones headroom picked in their roundup for normalization.

It's a midbass thin headphone, yes. Subjectively to most people on most mainstream music I would bet the DT931 would come across thinner sounding than the HD600.

Also whereas I've seen several "redos" like on the HD600 for more careful graphing, those DT931 graphs are pretty much the same as I've seen through beta phases. However they still seem pretty good in conveying what I think about the headphones, which while although good from bottom to upper midrange, I still think Ety's are better overall, especially when it comes to the upper treble.

 

[Xander]

From the looks of that graph, it looks "neutral" in the midbass.. It does appear to curve upward slightly, though. I bet what Todd calls "thin" would sound incredibly balanced, to me. Giving that he enjoys listening to the HD600s (no offense, Todd .

 

[Xander]

Oh brother.. I just looked at the impedance magnitude graph. No wonder the midbass appears thin!

 

[Tim D]

The midbass regions on HD600 show + 5dbs compared to its response at 1khz. Midbass regions on DT931 shows like +/- .5db difference compared to 1khz?

Course I still think the DT931 deserve a redo...using my pornographic memory, it is one of the few higher tier phones that didn't get a redo from beta stages.

Also those impedance graphs are pretty informative on the effects of higher output impedance. Again Jan says the DT931 are tuned well at 120. You can EASILY tell the difference of damping factor in the effect of sound on the DT931. With HD600 it also has a similar impedance rise, and again you can tell the effects of damping factor. K501 is mostly level, and although damping factor or output impedance matters to a degree...not as much as the other two!

Oh yah, one last thing with the graphs that also correlate with my findings. You can see with the sampled waveforms (supposed to be square waves), the Beyer DT931 does just awesomely with 100hz tone, again showing a very nice bass accuracy. You can see the K501 shows rounding off, as does the Hd600 to a lesser extent. But you can also clearly see the K501 has a very nice 1khz sampled waveform response...again an indication of the K501's great midrange performance. DT931 and HD600 have some slight resonances, but the K501 looks very clean in this area.

But my recommendation...disregarding any graphs because there aren't any yet...would still be Ety's to complement AKG501s.

However if you really want the HD600's...well look at that impedance graph for the HD600...than look at the tonal balance when driven by the Max...you definitely want something in Max league to minimize midbass bloat(highest damping, lowest output impedance possible), otherwise out of receivers or high output impedance...its going to be messy.

 

[Xander]

Thanks, Tim D.

Now, on a more tweaky note.. I've been wondering what would happen if I cut holes in my AKG pads. Think I'm gonna order new ones before I do that, though...

 

[Xander]

WAIT!

kwkarth.. You have more money then I do. Cut holes in YOUR pads, and tell me what happens. If it's good, then I'll do it too.

 

[Tim D]

Where exactly would you cut holes? If you are talking about the middle hole...that would expose the actual drivers to possible dirt/debris. Also the AKG501/401 have quite a thin layer between the driver and ear compared to many other headphones. Senns have like the earpad layer, and some paper/fiber damping layer of some sort before the diapghram is even exposed. Same with the Beyers. As far as headphones go, the AKG501/401 don't put much material between the ear and actual drivers!

It'd be cool to see if 301 pads fit on 401/501's...but I asked them this and someone just said no...but I wouldn't be suprised if they just said no for an easy no hassle answer.

 

[lini]

Xander: Would the new phone be meant to replace your K501 or would you just like to add another phone to your collection? If you just want an addition, I'd recommend to try the Philips HP890 and maybe also the beyerdynamic DT531 (I haven't tried the DT931, yet, so I can't comment on it...). I guess, you'd like the Philips better - maybe even better than a HD580 or HD600 (both always seemed a little to mellow for me, but I've never heard the Senns with a really good amp, yet - that might change my opinion...). In addition, I can say that both the HP890 and the DT531 work nicely with "Ye olde Marantz", so I'd assume you'd be pleased on "Ye olde Sansui", too.

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

 

[Tim D]

Things I think you should try...the new philips models as offered by Jan....

But even more mysterious, how about the new AKG240 Studio version...supposedly efficient with better bass and bandwidth (frequency extremes?). Given that the graphs make the old horrendously difficult to drive 600 ohm AKG240M below the K501 in terms of frequency extremes...this new version has a lot of potential.

 

[Xander]

lini

Definatly not a replacement. Nothing could replace my AKGs. Ever.

Tim D

Yeah, I was thinking about checking AKG's new models out myself, but I've got no way to listen to them.

As for the modding thing, it was just a stupid idea. It would leave the driver vulnerable to debree, however the AKGs driver is very rigid and stiff. It probably isnt easily damaged. I was just wondering what the sound improvements would be. If positive enough, maybe worth the risk?