Koss KSC 35 have more bass slam than Grados?
Jul 9, 2003 at 5:10 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 6

Patrickhat2001

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I went to a hi-fi shop a few days ago to test out some phones and brought my Koss KSC-35s along to do comparisions. Mainly I listened to the Grado SR-60 and RS-1. Overall I liked the sound from both cans but I noticed something I didn't expect when I compared them to my Koss 35s. In comparision the Grados had almost no bass impact while the 35s had tons of it. This puzzles me since I always expected Grados to have a lot of bass impact. Are the differences I heard in bass impact normal?

I realize that it could be possible that the Grados were not getting enough juice to let their bass really shine since I was forced to listen to them off of a receiver. In that situation the 35s also did have more bass impact than they do when being played out of my soundcard at home. But then again the Grado SR-60 aren't really supposed to benefit much from an amp so I am very confused. Can anyone offer some insight?
 
Jul 9, 2003 at 5:13 PM Post #2 of 6
i find the 35's to have not much impact at all. amped or unamped. but my greados, they always have their slam.
 
Jul 9, 2003 at 5:40 PM Post #3 of 6
On a amp, the 35's don't stand a chance in the bass department of the grados above the sr60. Also, are you getting confused between the bass intensity and impact? Two different things. The 35's have a slight boominess to it, making the bass stand out a bit more, whereas on grados it'S fast, quick, and exciting.
 
Jul 9, 2003 at 6:01 PM Post #4 of 6
I believe what you're hearing is just bass bloat. The KSC-35s have overblown, sloppy, boomy bass that overpowers much the music, but this bass isn't impactful, slammy, or tight. In comparison, Grados have bass that is as tight as a virgin, impactful, clean, and full of slam, but it differs depending on the pads used, whether or not they've been broken in, and whether or not an amp is used.

When I auditioned the SR325 with my CHA47 at a local hifi store, I also found no presence of bass or bass impact, and my couple of buddies commented on that as well. Talking to the rep, I found out that the demo pair hadn't seen more than 15 hours of play. The stock bowl pads were of course being used, so the sound was overly bright, harsh, and sibilant.

The pair I took home are now fully broken in, and last night I spent a couple hours comparing pads. Unfortunately, I have no flats to compare. Also, these are just what I heard, so as always, YMMV.

To summarize, bowls give the least bass presence, but do give some impact when worn forward on the ear with the back edge of the pad resting on the ear (not circumaural); this tones down the highs emmensely and balances the sound more, but everything fairly distant. Everything sounds very unnatural as well.

Unmodified Senn pads give the most bass presence but the least bass impact. The covering the driver results in a drastic reduction of treble and upper mids, and the bass becomes a bit unclear and less tight, but not what I'd call sloppy. The sound darkens quite a bit and becomes soft around the edges since the foam covers the driver. Since the driver is very close to the ear, soundstage is small, separation of instruments is lacking, everything is a bit congested, and the upper mid peak around 3khz is pretty noticeable.

Modified Senn pads give a smidgen less bass presence, with a smidgen more bass impact. Uncovering the driver releases the treble, brings back the detail, and tightens the bass some. The sound is still dark, the soundstage is still small, the separation is still lacking, and the sound is still congested, but all improve in comparison to unmodified Senn pads. Upper mid peak is more noticeable.

Reversing the modified Senn pads gives, in my opinion, the best bass presence and best bass impact. I feel that the bass is the cleanest and tightest, and best of all, the soundstage separation of instruments is there, and the sounds opens up and becomes 'uncongested' in comparison to Senn pads oriented normally. The thickness of the pad sets the driver away from the ear and creates a pocket for the sound. This pocket puts space between the instruments and leaves some air for the bass to move. The presence of the highs increases, but the impact and 'tightness' of the bass and the clarity in the mids move the sound from a dark color to a bit more natural color (not to be confused with neutral, however).

Previously, I had preffered modified Senn pads with normal orientation but found problems in the balance and soundstage and such. After last nights experimentation, I found that the reversed Senn pads please me much more.

As for the difference when using an amp, Grados higher up in the line will improve more than SR60s, but they will all improve more than the KSC-35s.

Also, you may want to pick up a pair of Grados with some Senn pads, spend 100 hrs burning them in, and then spend a week or two getting your brain used to the sound, and the bass. You'll definately hear the difference in presence, balance, and impact.
 
Jul 9, 2003 at 6:13 PM Post #5 of 6
I agree with all the people above. I have the SR-60 and the KSC-35. The 35 does seem to have more "impressive" bass in the sense that it is boomier and tends to overpower everything else. However, it does not have the tight, controlled, quick, and clean bass of the SR-60. Running it off a meta42 makes my SR-60's gain that extra oomph and impact as well as accentuate the bass. With the KSC-35 on the meta42 however, I have noticed that some of the highs are kinda lost and the bass becomes a little more pronounced and overbearing. Maybe it's a good thing that I'm a slight basshead, but not at the expense of everything else. In summary, the SR-60 just does it all better.

Hmm. I just noticed that I used pretty much the same words that FrostyMMB did. Oh well.
smily_headphones1.gif
 
Jul 9, 2003 at 6:18 PM Post #6 of 6
You're mistaking boom (not bloat, KSC-35's don't have bloated bass) for impact. Grados' bass is clean, punchy and impactful, just awesome. An amp helps to really bring this out IMO. The pads make a difference to. I prefer the modded Senns because they bring the music closest to you with enough impact and don't mask everything like the unmodded Senns. The bowls make everything sound too distant and bright and thin despite an improvement in soundstaging.
 

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