[vladstef]

Once and for all I am establishing here that the mids of the ZS10 are not recessed. The measurements clearly show that.

Disclaimer: the diagram is upside down. After all, who says that's not ok.

I am sorry but I completely dissagree. That bass is bleeding into mid range up to 500Hz, and you can consider boosted 100-200Hz to be bass bleeding into mid range already. Mid range reaches 2K peak a bit soon but at least it's the right amount.
Mid range as a whole is fighting with bass way too much, because we are not talking about a 4-5dB boost but 10dB of extra bass that is pushed a lot into the mid range.

Strongly forward mids? That is objectively inaccurate reading from the graph or listening to it.

 

[Makahl]

Knowles drivers vs. Bellsing drivers

**** uses Knowles BAs, KZ uses Bellsing BAs. The biggest criticism of KZ hybrids is the quality of their mids, even in the ZS10 with 4 BA drivers per earpiece. No wonder that **** iems are more expensive.

Counting 2 + 2 together: unless the next KZ models have better drivers, there is no expectation to get better mids.

Well, checking the ****'s Aliexpress ad I've found that:

The mids part is done by the DD instead of the BA which takes the control of the treble. Maybe that's why the mids sound more coherent to you. If you put a Knowles driver in the nozzle damperless you'll find that artificial too so I think the problem is the tuning and no drivers per se. if you do the Slater's mod on ZST putting a damper material on the BA it'll refine the peak taming that kind of artificial timbre.

 

[phower]

Your next KZ may be a ****! The **** UES at $24. Compared it this morning with the real KZ ZST. Both are dual hybrids. Difference: the **** was coherent and smooth and the ZST had needly, squeezed but distant mids smothered by a boomy bass.

On medium volume in particular, the **** gives you are very relaxed listening.

Why was the **** not hyped in 2016? It is not flashy and sounds like "mustard" (German: Senf).

I think you can't improve on your ZSR with another KZ model.

Sorry for digressing. I already have 2 **** PT15(graphene drivers) and the new **** EN900 is very tempting.

 

[MyPants]

Sorry for digressing. I already have 2 **** PT15(graphene drivers) and the new **** EN900 is very tempting.

Wow, unless the companies are related that's a huge middle finger to Simgot.

 

[phower]

Wow, unless the companies are related that's a huge middle finger to Simgot.

Well, KZ ZS6 is inspired by Campfire Andromeda, isn't it?

 

[bsoplinger]

Well, checking the ****'s Aliexpress ad I've found that:

The mids part is done by the DD instead of the BA which takes the control of the treble. Maybe that's why the mids sound more coherent to you. If you put a Knowles driver in the nozzle damperless you'll find that artificial too so I think the problem is the tuning and no drivers per se. if you do the Slater's mod on ZST putting a damper material on the BA it'll refine the peak taming that kind of artificial timbre.

Wow. Are they really showing that the crossover point between the DD and BA is at 5 kHz? Yikes why even bother with the BA at that point? Out of curiosity, which **** model is that?

 

[DocHoliday]

KZ uses Bellsing BAs.

Source, please.

 

[MyPants]

Well, KZ ZS6 is inspired by Campfire Andromeda, isn't it?

Yeah but that's a chi-fi company copying the design of a headphone that plays in a completely different universe. There's not really any competition. But the **** is copying the design of a headphone that's just $50 more from a fellow chi-fi manufacturer. Seems a little worse when there's the potential of actually confusing customers within the same product tier.

 

[Makahl]

Wow. Are they really showing that the crossover point between the DD and BA is at 5 kHz? Yikes why even bother with the BA at that point? Out of curiosity, which **** model is that?

I think Otto was talking about the **** UEs.The ad is saying the Knowles model is the WBFK-30042 which is usually designed as a tweeter so maybe the target is just getting a better treble extension? I'm not sure if they accomplish that since I don't own this IEM but I'd say that makes more sense.

Source, please.

I don't know 1 word but here's showing at least on KZ ZST the classic Bellsing 30095: http://bisonicr.ldblog.jp/archives/55647129.html

 

[Zerohour88]

Yeah but that's a chi-fi company copying the design of a headphone that plays in a completely different universe. There's not really any competition. But the **** is copying the design of a headphone that's just $50 more from a fellow chi-fi manufacturer. Seems a little worse when there's the potential of actually confusing customers within the same product tier.

honestly, both isn't really that far off. IP is IP, regardless of the price tier.

seeing as most of the newly announced KZ is fairly generic designs, hopefully they learnt their lessons on blatant copying (which will be super weird for a chinese company, but people change)

 

[phower]

I think Otto was talking about the **** UEs.The ad is saying the Knowles model is the WBFK-30042 which is usually designed as a tweeter so maybe the target is just getting a better treble extension? I'm not sure if they accomplish that since I don't own this IEM but I'd say that makes more sense.



I don't know 1 word but here's showing at least on KZ ZST the classic Bellsing 30095: http://bisonicr.ldblog.jp/archives/55647129.html

From Google translate , KZ has changed the ZST 3 times from the beginning. Earlier, there was unmarked BA to Bellsing BA. That is what I infer

 

[MyPants]

honestly, both isn't really that far off. IP is IP, regardless of the price tier.

seeing as most of the newly announced KZ is fairly generic designs, hopefully they learnt their lessons on blatant copying (which will be super weird for a chinese company, but people change)

Oh I agree, by the black letter of it. But when a court is deciding whether or not something is trade dress infringement, the actual likelihood of consumer confusion is a weighty factor. Now, Campfire's design likely has "independent significance" in the minds of audio consumers, so both cases ARE arguably infringement, but the chances of somebody looking for Andromedas buying the ZS6 by accident are basically zero compared to someone shopping for a Simgot EN700 being confused by the slightly cheaper EN900. Especially when you consider how **** is intentionally copying the naming scheme as well.

 

[Slater]

Source, please.

In the past there have been teardowns, and some of the BA drivers have the Belsing logo on the casing. Most of the time they have the KZ logo, but that is just a private labeling thing.

I'll see if I can find the info/photos.

Edit: The above Japanese post isn't even the one I was thinking of, but that's a perfect example. The one I remember was of the ZS5. Besides, Belsing is one of the largest BA manufacturers in the world. I have posted info about them before - they have some sort of relationship with Knowles, but it is not publicly clear exactly what that relationship is. Whatever it is, it is highly secret. Industry insiders believe that Knowles contracts out at least a portion of BA manufacturing work to Belsing.

 

[Otto Motor]

I am sorry but I completely dissagree. That bass is bleeding into mid range up to 500Hz, and you can consider boosted 100-200Hz to be bass bleeding into mid range already. Mid range reaches 2K peak a bit soon but at least it's the right amount.
Mid range as a whole is fighting with bass way too much, because we are not talking about a 4-5dB boost but 10dB of extra bass that is pushed a lot into the mid range.

Strongly forward mids? That is objectively inaccurate reading from the graph or listening to it.

OK, I turned the diagram around. Now the mids are recessed, the bass is bleeding, but the labelling is upside down. See also here:
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/kz-zs10.23034/reviews

 

[Otto Motor]

Well, checking the ****'s Aliexpress ad I've found that:

If you put a Knowles driver in the nozzle damperless you'll find that artificial too so I think the problem is the tuning and no drivers per se. if you do the Slater's mod on ZST putting a damper material on the BA it'll refine the peak taming that kind of artificial timbre.

Maybe, tuning is dependent on driver quality. I wrote in my ZS10 review: "...I am wondering whether KZ toned the midrange down so that not to create an overly harsh listening experience..."