[slex]

Does Linsoul own KZ..? Some guy on youtube told me they do, matter-of-factly. I can't find any such "proof" of this.

Different whales, perhaps its true. One in budget market the other.....

 

[SpaceOperaVillain]

Does Linsoul own KZ..? Some guy on youtube told me they do, matter-of-factly. I can't find any such "proof" of this.

I think they have mistaken KZ for Thieaudio, which definitely were founded by Linsoul. From Monarch's product page:

Thieaudio was launched in 2019 as a creative endeavor of Linsoul Audio. We are committed to the continual expansion on the limits of high-fidelity audio. We welcome you to join us and experience excellence in musical performance!

 

[CT007]

I think they have mistaken KZ for Thieaudio, which definitely were founded by Linsoul. From Monarch's product page:

Yep, that's all I could come up with. I emailed Linsoul to ask, though. =p Hopefully my ZAS gets here in the next few days, too..!

 

[AmericanSpirit]

Great information, thanks. I read your discussion about AST being sensitive to source impedance. Do they still sound "dark" with optimal source (i.e. close to zero impedance)? Also, how much of a technicalities upgrade it is?

It is tuned dark but with a solid competency in instrument separations @80hours. ASX is a source picky IEM as well. I found FiiO M11 Pro’s Lineout matches perfectly to AST, it adds extra layers of instruments separation and tames extra boosted bass to somewhat harman-ish level of bass floor.

KZ started to mend technicalities for recent releases, you ASX is“hmm not too bad, but not too good” C grade technicalities, AST is “oh wow it’s getting closer to good IEM” B grade technicalities. Main upgrade is separation but there is a marginal upgrade on coherence of overall sound tuning as well.

 

[AmericanSpirit]

If they're using a dual-chamber electret like Sonion makes, or their newer model with two of the dual-chamber electret drivers run from the same transformer pack, then I doubt they'd be able to keep to that price point. If they used single electret driver like Shuoer did in the tape or BGVP did in the Zero, then maybe they'd be able to meet that price point without the crazy tuning issues that both of those units are plagued with in their attempts to keep driver count at a minimum. Poor crossover choices and oddly tuned DD selection leads to scooped out mids and peaky treble. Electret or "electrostatic" drivers should be relegate only to mid and upper treble, due to their extremely light membranes often lacking impactfulness in the lower treble where a BA driver would be better suited. I'd love to see them actually do something like that. A compact set like the CKX with a DD, a trio of BA drivers for the mid-bass to mids transition, a full-range crossed over for mids, and a low to mid-treble driver topped off with a single electret properly tuned to handle just the mid to upper treble extension. That would be an absolutely glorious product at a $250 price point or below. We've seen that the guys at CCA can tune well with the CKX, so I'd love to see them make a "pro" version with some EST treble extension. Maybe ditch the 30095 from the nozzle and replace it with an electret mounted elsewhere. If they were to consider going that far, I'd like to see them go ahead and use a 3D printed insert to add sound tubes and driver mounting points. Sound tubes really are important.

Good idea of placing electret unit on nozzle! KZ seemed getting away from 30095, so that sounds pretty realistic too.

Hope they source EST unit with 90% of Sonion Grade and 30% of the price.

 

[G777]

To be fair, a lot of the high end stuff isn't so different. Campfire Audio tout their 10mm "ADLC" driver. The Dorado 2020 is a vee shaped $1000 pair and only has a single BA. Their yellow entry level IEM at $250 also has a single 10mm DD.

That's an interesting observation about the KZ trio. Isn't the ZAX also the same Xun driver as CSN and ZAS? It's described as 10mm double magnet driver. Was it tuned up a bit before getting marketed as the Xun?

cheers

edit: small correction - $1099 per pair. Based on the reviews, it seems campfire went the distance to tune these for wide appeal to rock and 80s pop. I just can't imagine a $1040 improvement to sound for pop music over our beloved KZ sets.

The XUN driver has a bell-shaped chamber in the back. It's too thick to fit into the shell of the ZAX, hence the large new shells of the CSN, DQ6, and ZAS which all use the XUN driver.

 

[AmericanSpirit]

Interesting thoughts above here ^ re: driver tech. One thing I'd read about the new KZ ZAS was that the 50024 units are using composite. I've not found any more details more than that, but it seems like they are doubling down on BA technology and aren't finished with it. KZ have bucked the other driver trends which leads me to believe that they've made significant investments in BA fabrication and are reluctant to follow the ChiFi herd. Developing proprietary tech helps a firm stay competitively differentiated and to leverage existing assets. We may not see them hop into EST territory.

With a new tuning and a new premium shell design, the ZAS is a clear iteration on the ZAX. The ZAX also has 50024s in basically the same configuration, including the 30019 treble unit but there's no mention about the ZAX BA units being composite or iron. I haven't looked on AST/ASX driver particulars, but maybe one or both of that platform was serving as an invisible mule for newer tech that wasn't advertised. We will just have to keep on the lookout for early scoops!

AST uses 50024sx6 matrix driver, which I did notice difference on separation and more smooth transients compared to
Other bellsing BAs

 

[mndless]

Good idea of placing electret unit on nozzle! KZ seemed getting away from 30095, so that sounds pretty realistic too.

Hope they source EST unit with 90% of Sonion Grade and 30% of the price.

I would prefer if they didn't put it in the nozzle, as it does weird things with how the treble is presented, but I suspect it wouldn't be any worse than a 30095 in the nozzle. I would much rather have all the drivers within the main body and have the sound piper around with a 3D printed sound tube insert.

 

[AmericanSpirit]

I would prefer if they didn't put it in the nozzle, as it does weird things with how the treble is presented, but I suspect it wouldn't be any worse than a 30095 in the nozzle. I would much rather have all the drivers within the main body and have the sound piper around with a 3D printed sound tube insert.

Yea that’s a safer bet, but nothing particular stands out of already red ocean EST market. ZAX / CSN / KBEar Lark all has 30095 sticking to nozzle which I do see there is a benefit in terms of “sound image” with nimble image and more dynamic driver like sound pressure. The downside is coherence interference, as it would stand out as independent imaging from rest of the drivers. For CSN and LARK, since it’s simple 1+1 config, the coherence issue is not that bothering though.
I’m not even sure if the dimensions of the EST driver would ever fit in the nozzle too.

 

[saldsald]

To be fair, a lot of the high end stuff isn't so different. Campfire Audio tout their 10mm "ADLC" driver. The Dorado 2020 is a vee shaped $1000 pair and only has a single BA. Their yellow entry level IEM at $250 also has a single 10mm DD.

That's an interesting observation about the KZ trio. Isn't the ZAX also the same Xun driver as CSN and ZAS? It's described as 10mm double magnet driver. Was it tuned up a bit before getting marketed as the Xun?

cheers

edit: small correction - $1099 per pair. Based on the reviews, it seems campfire went the distance to tune these for wide appeal to rock and 80s pop. I just can't imagine a $1040 improvement to sound for pop music over our beloved KZ sets.

I think it is a little different. Budget chifi IEMs usually employ some budget DDs probably developed by some OEM factories which almost predetermine the sound signature of the IEMs. Since these DDs are full frequency drivers and they don't add crossover to them so they can either tune the IEMs physically or by adding more drivers on top of the sound. You can find different brands using these drivers making these IEMs sound similar. The XUN is better as it is developed by KZ themselves but they have released several IEMs and TWS based on this driver already.

 

[baskingshark]

To be fair, a lot of the high end stuff isn't so different. Campfire Audio tout their 10mm "ADLC" driver. The Dorado 2020 is a vee shaped $1000 pair and only has a single BA. Their yellow entry level IEM at $250 also has a single 10mm DD.

True true. Campfire audio and some summitFi brands use Bellsing BA drivers in some of their higher end gear:

https://amp.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/cxqlje/knowles_files_claim_with_us_trade_commission_to/

This info was released after knowles sued bellsing for copying their stuff.

I guess if the campfire engineers think a Bellsing can do the job over a more expensive knowles driver, I guess the implementation and tuning is more important than driver count it driver brand.

 

[mndless]

True true. Campfire audio and some summitFi brands use Bellsing BA drivers in some of their higher end gear:

https://amp.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/cxqlje/knowles_files_claim_with_us_trade_commission_to/

This info was released after knowles sued bellsing for copying their stuff.

I guess if the campfire engineers think a Bellsing can do the job over a more expensive knowles driver, I guess the implementation and tuning is more important than driver count it driver brand.

I think the main difference is that it's cheaper for them to approach Bellsing to make them a unique driver tuned explicitly for their use than to try the same with Knowles or Sonion, if they aren't able to find a model in their catalogues that fit the sound signature that they're looking for, particularly for single BA sets. I don't necessarily understand the desire for single BA sets which aren't capitalizing on the potential for an incredibly compact form factor, but if Campfire Audio thinks there's an adequate market for it, then I guess there must be one...

 

[voicemaster]

I think the main difference is that it's cheaper for them to approach Bellsing to make them a unique driver tuned explicitly for their use than to try the same with Knowles or Sonion, if they aren't able to find a model in their catalogues that fit the sound signature that they're looking for, particularly for single BA sets. I don't necessarily understand the desire for single BA sets which aren't capitalizing on the potential for an incredibly compact form factor, but if Campfire Audio thinks there's an adequate market for it, then I guess there must be one...

Want cheaper but selling at $1499 damn. I will be pissed unless the shell is 24k gold.

 

[r31ya]

Want cheaper but selling at $1499 damn. I will be pissed unless the shell is 24k gold.

I remember trying out a custom IEM priced at $1400 ($1100 8 driver/side IEM+ $300 cable), he said his Custom IEM is what KZ ZS3 imitate in the shell looks.
Playing that through smartphone with spotify already blew my f*cking mind. well i only used to hearing sub $25 iem at the time.
As i hear through it, its so clear, detailed, and natural that i can literally portray a guy pick a string of a bass guitar and i can portray the string vibrating...

And then i bought the ear torture that is KZ ZS5 and as i mostly play in sub $200 IEM, until today i haven't heard IEM in that caliber again

 

[baskingshark]

Want cheaper but selling at $1499 damn. I will be pissed unless the shell is 24k gold.

Look no further than the TRN golden ears at an ultra affordable $15000 USD:

Only 20 pieces left, don't miss it!!! And don't forget to click the $6 off coupon!!