[CoiL]

Thanks a BUNCH CoiL! So that tells me that the biggest issue with the ATE was the port not being large enough, and they addressed this on the ATR (as it has a pretty substantial port). The ZST's is pretty substantial as well.

I still love my open grille mod ATE as well (thanks to you).

I plan on grille modding the ZST one of these days to see if any additional gains can be had, so I'll be sure to post any significant results.

1. Do nozzle mod too for Your ATE (with ED9 brass nozzles) and You`ll love them even more

2. ZST with grill mod could be different story than ATE/ATR improvement and I suspect it will be actually worse. Most improvement regarding ZST highs could come from moving BA further inside shell and using proper damper for BA. But tuning the mids better is very hard thing to do.
Better dynamic natural mids and huge airy soundstage are the things that I like more with ATE than ZST.

 

[bartzky]

@benchan2 thanks for sharing.

The thing top right between the red and green wires at the tip of the tool actually looks like a capacitor in parallel. So this would suggest a first order low pass at least.

 

[benchan2]

I am quite sure KZ is the one finding ODM, not the other way. I mean they changed the housing of ZS5 from ZS3 and ZST with no benefit ....Anyway I am not gonna go further into it.

And Yes, all 4 drivers work!!! It is not like they put dummy drivers like other cheap earphones out there. Just that they are kinda really get blocked and has no effect to the sound (which is kinda good, because without a audio crossover, iimagaine mess for all 4 drivers to work on all frequency)

Regarding the point the DD not being fixed (the one working), it is not exactly the case for everyone as I saw someone saying theirs had glue in it, quite a lot.

For those who want to disassemble it, I would suggest you to enjoy it bit longer before doing so. Panel falling off is not a rare case at least when it first came out. Maybe it is better now but if most likely you still have to destroy it to fully disassemble it.

 

[ricemanhk]

I am quite sure KZ is the one finding ODM, not the other way. I mean they changed the housing of ZS5 from ZS3 and ZST with no benefit ....Anyway I am not gonna go further into it.

And Yes, all 4 drivers work!!! It is not like they put dummy drivers like other cheap earphones out there. Just that they are kinda really get blocked and has no effect to the sound (which is kinda good, because without a audio crossover, iimagaine mess for all 4 drivers to work on all frequency)

Regarding the point the DD not being fixed (the one working), it is not exactly the case for everyone as I saw someone saying theirs had glue in it, quite a lot.

For those who want to disassemble it, I would suggest you to enjoy it bit longer before doing so. Panel falling off is not a rare case at least when it first came out. Maybe it is better now but if most likely you still have to destroy it to fully disassemble it.

Most companies do try and make different housings styles. ZS3 housing style was used to allow for the long bass tube to bring out lots of bass, which it did. ZST was a nice housing imo, and indeed ZS5 seems to be a step back (both comfort wise and copy-cat design wise).

Meanwhile just because the drivers aren't facing directly towards the nozzle into your ears doesn't mean the sound doesn't get to your ears.

Anyway as everyone has said, doesn't matter what's in the IEM, what matters is what comes OUT of it, and to me and many others here, that sound is quite lovely.

 

[Vidal]

Looking at that picture there's no way of knowing what's going on in terms of tubes, ports or vents, just looks like a gluey mess. Maybe an electronic crossover isn't needed as it's tuned physically small vents etc. Incidentally, I've just tried to coax the shells apart on my pair and they're not budging at all, tighter than a duck arse.

No offence intended to you Ben, but who is to say that the person posting that on the Chinese forum is genuine? Given of what I've heard about Chinese company ethics (banned seller as an example) it could easily be a competitor trying to bad mouth a new release.

I'm keeping an open mind (and ear) till someone like Coil pulls one apart and finds an issue,

 

[Slater]

No, ODM means making the product for someone else to slap their logo on it. Sort of like those Verizon or Tmobile branded phones that were likely made by Huawei or ZTE (big ODMs before they became OEMs).
Ben was saying KZ doesn't make the IEMs but is only the brand owner and uses multiple suppliers for the different IEMs, but I doubt this is happening.

Design copying is another issue altogether of course.

Ah, got it. I have always known that as "private labeling". At least that's what we used to call it in the manufacturing biz.

 

[Slater]

Looking at that picture there's no way of knowing what's going on in terms of tubes, ports or vents, just looks like a gluey mess.

There are industrial epoxy/glue dissolvers available that could dissolve away all of the glue.

If the glue could be removed cleanly, without damaging the plastic shell, we could see what the bare shell really looks like and then properly evaluate its design.

And as you hinted at, there's likely small ports (tubes/tunnels) cast into the shell to tune certain frequencies and/or direct the output of specific drivers. Although none of that careful design and engineering matters if they simply flooded everything with glue, effectively sealing everything up.

If that is the case, it would just prove that even the best design and engineering intentions can be ruined without careful manufacturing controls in place.

When I used to manufacture products, I closely controlled everything from the concept, design, and testing to the manufacturing, finishing, and sales. Too many cooks in the kitchen can really muck things up.

 

[Slater]

1. Do nozzle mod too for Your ATE (with ED9 brass nozzles) and You`ll love them even more

That's genius! I never even thought of that! I have a bunch of spare nozzles, with no plans to use them.

2. ZST with grill mod could be different story than ATE/ATR improvement and I suspect it will be actually worse. Most improvement regarding ZST highs could come from moving BA further inside shell and using proper damper for BA. But tuning the mids better is very hard thing to do.
Better dynamic natural mids and huge airy soundstage are the things that I like more with ATE than ZST.

OK, good to know. I agree that the ZST BA definitely benefits from dampener tuning. I did some crude dampening using tuning foam in the BA nozzles, and I had very positive results. Obviously proper BA dampeners would be even better.

I wish all of these cheap hybrids used proper dampeners on the BAs. It would only add a few dollars to the cost, but would greatly benefit from the gain in tune-ability. Most just stick in BAs and whatever comes out the other end is 'good enough'. Like the people that paint their car using cans of spray paint.

 

[B9Scrambler]

For those of you having issues with memory wire on the ZS5, trying shaping it something like this;



Brainwavz was onto something with the shape of their earguides on the B100/B150.

 

[Slater]

@benchan2 thanks for sharing.

The thing top right between the red and green wires at the tip of the tool actually looks like a capacitor in parallel. So this would suggest a first order low pass at least.

That is the solder pad, which lifted clean off of the BA driver:

 

[benchan2]

Very true, ZS5 gives an interesting sound. There is not much to complain especially when you consider its price and the accessories they come with.
And ODM does not necessary mean the product is inferior to the others in terms of quality. In fact it is quite common even for some bigger brands. So it is not something to complain or worry about.
I don't think it is fair for some to say it is "cheating" or "bad mouth from other companies". So, it may not be the best built iem around, but generally it works. And It is not like they put some metal pieces to pretend to be BA. They do pack 4 drivers just some are placed weirdly. I mean, just don't set your bar too high.
Lastly for those who have doubt, the best way to find out is always to disassemble it and see it yourself.

 

[danspy]

The mid BA housing just wood need a tiny Pinhole to contribute, and the sub-bass DD does not even to be open to the port to contribute.

 

[Vidal]

I don't think it is fair for some to say it is "cheating" or "bad mouth from other companies".

How is it different from posting fake positive reviews on Amazon like 100s of importers and companies do? Business ethics are pretty shocking.

For those who are interested after giving the ZS5 my top score so far I've listened to nothing else since, not because I'm enjoying them, which I am. I wanted to be sure that I hadn't given them too much credit, so far I've heard nothing to change my mind. I'm actually going back through old songs to hear how they perform. I know @loomisjohnson wanted to know whether they stood up to extended listening, so far they do.

 

[ricemanhk]

The mid BA housing just wood need a tiny Pinhole to contribute, and the sub-bass DD does not even to be open to the port to contribute.

Technical question: Is it possible/feasible to have the sub-bass DD to be smaller in diameter than the bass DD? I would have thought larger diameters are better to generate the lower freqs, but I'm not an expert in earbud and driver design.

 

[ricemanhk]

For those who are interested after giving the ZS5 my top score so far I've listened to nothing else since, not because I'm enjoying them, which I am. I wanted to be sure that I hadn't given them too much credit, so far I've heard nothing to change my mind. I'm actually going back through old songs to hear how they perform. I know @loomisjohnson wanted to know whether they stood up to extended listening, so far they do.

Fully agree, I'm so glad I got them early and enjoying the heck out of them
But to your last comment in your review...wonder what would happen if the ZSR pro really does come out and really does beat the ZS5? then again you still have 0.3 points leeway lol