[Vidal]

Everytime I read 3D sound I think well that's just undermined what that person said as they doesn't really understand what they're listening to. Soundstage with earphones is L/R with maybe a perception of distance from the listener.

Anything more is misinterpretation.

 

[Holypal]

Everytime I read 3D sound I think well that's just undermined what that person said as they doesn't really understand what they're listening to. Soundstage with earphones is L/R with maybe a perception of distance from the listener.

Anything more is misinterpretation.

I have to disagree. At least for over-ear headphones, they do have 3D soundstage. Most of the hi-end headphones have angled drivers (or angled pads) to help to create a more realistic 3D soundstage, such as HD800 and T1. Fidelio X2 also has angled drivers. For iems, sometimes I have a similar feeling.

 

[s4tch]

I have to disagree. At least for over-ear headphones, they do have 3D soundstage. Most of the hi-end headphones have angled drivers (or angled pads) to help to create a more realistic 3D soundstage, such as HD800 and T1. Fidelio X2 also has angled drivers. For iems, sometimes I have a similar feeling.

he wrote about earphones, not headphones.

i haven't experienced 3d imaging from iem's either. this might be due to the relative lack of my experience, though.

 

[TheWongWrong]

Opened up the ZST. Didn't do much with it tho

 

[CoiL]

You used the shiny gold filter on the ED9, right? Because the dull brass tip is unbearable as far as treble.

Also, I modded my ED9 and cleaned up the sound. Smoother treble, no sharpness at all, and much improved bass.

Everytime I read 3D sound I think well that's just undermined what that person said as they doesn't really understand what they're listening to. Soundstage with earphones is L/R with maybe a perception of distance from the listener.

Anything more is misinterpretation.

Well, I have to disagree also but there are lot of factors that may or may not make person to hear such "3D soundstage"... starting with our individual hearing perception, source gear, music MASTERING and quality (file format), proper seal with proper tips, source and earphones match etc.
I have heard plenty enough open-back over-head headphones and have Fidelio X1.... while I agree that IEMs mostly don`t have such big holographic "3D" soundstage, many come very close to open-back headphones and can be even superior in some sound aspects depending on music and source gear used.

 

[Vidal]

I have to disagree. At least for over-ear headphones, they do have 3D soundstage. Most of the hi-end headphones have angled drivers (or angled pads) to help to create a more realistic 3D soundstage, such as HD800 and T1. Fidelio X2 also has angled drivers. For iems, sometimes I have a similar feeling.

Well, I have to disagree also but there are lot of factors that may or may not make person to hear such "3D soundstage"... starting with our individual hearing perception, source gear, music MASTERING and quality (file format), proper seal with proper tips, source and earphones match etc.
I have heard plenty enough open-back over-head headphones and have Fidelio X1.... while I agree that IEMs mostly don`t have such big holographic "3D" soundstage, many come very close to open-back headphones and can be even inferior in some sound aspects depending on music and source gear used.

I would suggest you both read this thread, any further discussion would be better in there as well as not to take this one further off topic.

https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/how-do-we-hear-height-in-a-recording-with-earphones.840736/

Succinctly put you may be interpreting it as 3D but it can only be 2D, it's a mistake, we get height information comes from our own outer ear, and reflections from our head shape etc. Plus recordings don't capture this detail and even they did you'd not get this with IEMs

 

[CoiL]

Maybe 3D isn`t right term to describe "surrounding soundstage effect, frontal depth, height and such" but I have read enough about it and I don`t want to fall into this subject because it is too full of sceptics and ppl who consider only scientific facts, nubers (1&2-L&R) and don`t understand and consider many other factors.
Your thread was mainly only about height - which I admit not hearing much myself too in recordings but I do hear differences in frontal depth/distance and layering, stereo distance and separation - those alone/together can create pretty "holographic" illusion like You are in concert hall or in middle and surrounded by sounds/instruments. But like I told it depends on many factors and ppl who are just listening to typical heavily compressed pop-music with little details/effects and poor mastering, those ppl often don`t sense "holographic" soundstage as many audiophiles because their brain just isn`t used to and don`t know how to interpret those effects/sounds. I`ve "tested" this with many friends and they don`t sense where from one sound is coming or approaching (sound movement) so well as I and some other mates do.
But they get more "accurate" when I let them hear some binaural recordings or chesky test records. After they spent some time with such audio and better gear, they start to sense and understand better (brain is adjusting) to sound and its aspects.
I got similar test descriptions and opinions from Your thread too btw.

Well.... I`ll just stop it here and agree that "3D" is bad term describing sound and nor have I heard/sensed much height in recordings. There are better terms than "3D" for describing certain sound aspects.

 

[Spelaeus]

I would suggest you both read this thread, any further discussion would be better in there as well as not to take this one further off topic.

https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/how-do-we-hear-height-in-a-recording-with-earphones.840736/

Succinctly put you may be interpreting it as 3D but it can only be 2D, it's a mistake, we get height information comes from our own outer ear, and reflections from our head shape etc. Plus recordings don't capture this detail and even they did you'd not get this with IEMs

Playing devil's advocate as I've yet to receive my ZS5s, and I feel comfortable making this argument here as it's KZ-specific.
I understand the skepticism regarding 3D imaging in an IEM with a single driver. But isn't it entirely possible that a multi-driver IEM with drivers at varying distances from the ear (And 3 of the 4 at an angle relative to the nozzle going by some of the internal images) could provide a sense of 3D sound imaging? And even if you argue that it's an aural illusion given the lack of outer-ear influence, I'm not sure how the perception of 3D imaging is meaningfully different from "actual" 3D imaging in this scenario.

 

[all999]

I would suggest you both read this thread, any further discussion would be better in there as well as not to take this one further off topic.

https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/how-do-we-hear-height-in-a-recording-with-earphones.840736/

Succinctly put you may be interpreting it as 3D but it can only be 2D, it's a mistake, we get height information comes from our own outer ear, and reflections from our head shape etc. Plus recordings don't capture this detail and even they did you'd not get this with IEMs

It doesn't matter how You manage it. If Your brain hear 3D, it's a 3D.

 

[Vidal]

Maybe 3D isn`t right term to describe "surrounding soundstage effect, frontal depth, height and such" but I have read enough about it and I don`t want to fall into this subject because it is too full of sceptics and ppl who consider only scientific facts, nubers (1&2-L&R) and don`t understand and consider many other factors.
Your thread was mainly only about height - which I admit not hearing much myself too in recordings but I do hear differences in frontal depth/distance and layering, stereo distance and separation - those alone/together can create pretty "holographic" illusion like You are in concert hall or in middle and surrounded by sounds/instruments. But like I told it depends on many factors and ppl who are just listening to typical heavily compressed pop-music with little details/effects and poor mastering, those ppl often don`t sense "holographic" soundstage as many audiophiles because their brain just isn`t used to and don`t know how to interpret those effects/sounds. I`ve "tested" this with many friends and they don`t sense where from one sound is coming or approaching (sound movement) so well as I and some other mates do.
But they get more "accurate" when I let them hear some binaural recordings or chesky test records. After they spent some time with such audio and better gear, they start to sense and understand better (brain is adjusting) to sound and its aspects.
I got similar test descriptions and opinions from Your thread too btw.

Well.... I`ll just stop it here and agree that "3D" is bad term describing sound and nor have I heard/sensed much height in recordings. There are better terms than "3D" for describing certain sound aspects.

It's the height dimension, that's the one I don't hear and couldn't understand why when others could. I read up on it ,and thought to throw it out to the sound science forum to get a better understanding and to see whether what I'd read was wrong.

I can get a great 2D experience based on L/R position and I guess volume of individual elements when everything comes into place but never height.

 

[Vidal]

Playing devil's advocate as I've yet to receive my ZS5s, and I feel comfortable making this argument here as it's KZ-specific.
I understand the skepticism regarding 3D imaging in an IEM with a single driver. But isn't it entirely possible that a multi-driver IEM with drivers at varying distances from the ear (And 3 of the 4 at an angle relative to the nozzle going by some of the internal images) could provide a sense of 3D sound imaging? And even if you argue that it's an aural illusion given the lack of outer-ear influence, I'm not sure how the perception of 3D imaging is meaningfully different from "actual" 3D imaging in this scenario.

Doesn't matter how many drivers or their positions that information isn't captured in a normal stereo recording to start with.

 

[Vidal]

It doesn't matter how You manage it. If Your brain hear 3D, it's a 3D.

Yes, the earth is flat and only 6000 years old as well.

 

[groucho69]

Playing devil's advocate as I've yet to receive my ZS5s, and I feel comfortable making this argument here as it's KZ-specific.
I understand the skepticism regarding 3D imaging in an IEM with a single driver. But isn't it entirely possible that a multi-driver IEM with drivers at varying distances from the ear (And 3 of the 4 at an angle relative to the nozzle going by some of the internal images) could provide a sense of 3D sound imaging? And even if you argue that it's an aural illusion given the lack of outer-ear influence, I'm not sure how the perception of 3D imaging is meaningfully different from "actual" 3D imaging in this scenario.

Ah for the days of Quadraphonic sound.

 

[Podster]

Maybe 3D isn`t right term to describe "surrounding soundstage effect, frontal depth, height and such" but I have read enough about it and I don`t want to fall into this subject because it is too full of sceptics and ppl who consider only scientific facts, nubers (1&2-L&R) and don`t understand and consider many other factors.
Your thread was mainly only about height - which I admit not hearing much myself too in recordings but I do hear differences in frontal depth/distance and layering, stereo distance and separation - those alone/together can create pretty "holographic" illusion like You are in concert hall or in middle and surrounded by sounds/instruments. But like I told it depends on many factors and ppl who are just listening to typical heavily compressed pop-music with little details/effects and poor mastering, those ppl often don`t sense "holographic" soundstage as many audiophiles because their brain just isn`t used to and don`t know how to interpret those effects/sounds. I`ve "tested" this with many friends and they don`t sense where from one sound is coming or approaching (sound movement) so well as I and some other mates do.
But they get more "accurate" when I let them hear some binaural recordings or chesky test records. After they spent some time with such audio and better gear, they start to sense and understand better (brain is adjusting) to sound and its aspects.
I got similar test descriptions and opinions from Your thread too btw.

Well.... I`ll just stop it here and agree that "3D" is bad term describing sound and nor have I heard/sensed much height in recordings. There are better terms than "3D" for describing certain sound aspects.

Hey Coil, loving the Avatar, is that some of your customization? You are correct in that 3D is not a good description although I feel some consider multiple factors to be creating a 3D sound field for them, all999's article there is pretty good as a reference. I also believe many larger cans are designed to mimic 3D (just having the space within the cup can do this sometimes). So enough of that as we all hear it differently, I am anxious however to get my ZS5's in and see what all the ruckus is about Love reading what a step up they are from ZS3 & ZST's which are still my top dog KZ but then again I love my ZS3's depending on genre. Here's my 343 rig (U3/iPhone4/ZS3)

Then again who ever knew one could get a budget rig with $9.99 iem's that could sound this good!

I mean the ED9's were the KZ's that originally got me into budget iem's and to this day I still enjoy listening to them

 

[sidmaximus]

I'm looking to buy my first KZ IEMs but I'm not sure which one. I mostly listen to power metal, prog metal, rock and classical. When I listen to music, I search for clarity and crispness. I'm not really a fan of bass-heavy sound but its good to have that sometimes. I love my Grado SR80 and ATH-M50.