KGSS Vs Blue Hawaii

[Covenant]

Having listened to both, which do you feel is clearly superior? I know the Blue Hawaii was designed on a more no-holds-barred sort of ideal, but i'm curious as to whether the $1k usd markup is indicicative of a real, tangible benefit in sonics or just he added difficulty in a tubed output stage.

Other factors such as warm-up time, electricity usage, etc may colour this vote too. All issues considered, including convenience, sonics, aesthetics and value for money, which do you prefer?

 

[spritzer]

Well I chose the Blue Hawaii because I could tube roll it and change the sound. The stock Valve Arts are crap and the winged C "SED" are much better. Put in some Mullard XF2's and the amp really shines. The difference is rather large...

I turn it on and start listening after about a minute so warmup isn't really a problem but it gets really hot and needs to be placed where it can breathe.

 

[Canman]

The additional cost is well justified when you look at the additional parts cost and labor required. Sound is a different story.

With the stock tubes the differences are rather minimal - more pronounced bass and warmer midrange. The tubes I tried were not Valve Art, but supposedly something worse. Never heard old stock tubes in a blue hawaii.

 

[gpalmer]

I think so though the majority of folks I have talked to have not agreed. I find even with the stock tubes there was enough of an improvement in smoothness that I would want the tubes. OTOH, since these are best left running, you either want the bypass switch that keeps the headphones powered on or the KGSS, 'cause those tubes sure are going to add up otherwise...

 

[88Sound]

I didn't vote in the poll because I've never heard the KGSS. I have been listening to My O2/Blue Hawaii stocked with NOS Telefunken Tubes for over a year (I've never heard the Valve Art tubes that came with the BH). My BH has the always on bias and Black Gate caps. I've owned many phones and amps over the years but I've never been to a meet and have never heard another electrostatic phone other than the O2.

The first thing that strikes me about the above combo is the ultra low and tight bass. Seems to go an octave lower than any dynamic phone I've ever heard (except possibly the L3000....jury still out on this one for me). The highs are extended but not splashy at all, sounds like real life to me more than anything else I've heard.

For an experiment I rolled in a matched quad of those Russian Mullards. After biasing I burned these in for around 100 hours and listened many hours thereafter. The bass although still deep was looser and fuzzy, also the highs seemed splashier and less real.

Last week I rolled the Tele's back in.....all I can say is what a difference, I love these tubes, if anyone knows of an affordable alternative to these that would be great, otherwise I hope they last forever.

So even without hearing the KGSS I'm glad I got the BH just because I love those tubes, but it is also the tube choice that can take a good amp and turn it into an incredible one.

 

[philodox]

You might want to also consider that HEV90 clone that HeadAmp is building.

 

[Canman]

What headphone are you planning to use?

 

[Covenant]

Quote:

Originally Posted by spritzer Well I chose the Blue Hawaii because I could tube roll it and change the sound. The stock Valve Arts are crap and the winged C "SED" are much better. Put in some Mullard XF2's and the amp really shines. The difference is rather large...

See, to me, this is more a drawback of the BH than a strength. When one's dealing with as mighty a set of cans as the O2, and a sufficiently high-end source, ideally you'd want an amp that just got out of the way and provided as much transparency as possible. Having to tuberoll the BH extensively to find the best possible sound would certainly add to the expense and inconvenience.

Quote:

Originally Posted by spritzer I turn it on and start listening after about a minute so warmup isn't really a problem but it gets really hot and needs to be placed where it can breathe.

There's another BH drawback for me, were I to own one it'd be sitting in my audio rack with very little clearance to the sides, an enclosed back, and only open at the front. While there'd be some air circulation there, there wouldn't be a great deal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gpalmer OTOH, since these are best left running, you either want the bypass switch that keeps the headphones powered on or the KGSS, 'cause those tubes sure are going to add up otherwise...

That's another factor to consider for me, since i don't pay the electricity bill here, i don't want the Parental Figures(tm) that do kicking my reer because of a consistently high bill.

Then there's the fact that with always-on bias, the tubes would be on a finite lifespan, and eventually would need replacing, adding to the cost. So unless someone has a convincing argument about a great deal of sonic improvement of BH compared to KGSS, the latter's simply looking like the more efficient solution.

Oh, and i'd planned to use this with an O2, when(if) i ever bought one

 

[88Sound]

Quote:

Then there's the fact that with always-on bias, the tubes would be on a finite lifespan, and eventually would need replacing, adding to the cost.

With the amp off the always on bias draws less than a night lights worth of electricity and the tubes and amp circuitry are off.

Enclosing the BH on all sides but the front however is probably not a good idea.

 

[Covenant]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 88Sound Enclosing the BH on all sides but the front however is probably not a good idea.

Most likely not. I could always sit it on top of my rack if i ended up deciding to get one, but i'd prefer not to. It'd break the aesthetics

Incidentally, i've got the same rack as Kenny12 here , just in a dark silver colour and without the front door.

 

[ServinginEcuador]

I spent some time with a BH for a little over two months, and can honestly say that it was in almost no way an improvement over my KGSS. A little warmth in the mids, but nothing else. The bass and highs of the KGSS were superior also IME. After spending a little time with the BH I felt better about cancelling my order to have one built. I'll happily stick with my KGSS.

 

[PATB]

From PMs I received from other head-fiers who have heard both, the majority thought there is little to no difference between the KGSS and KGBH. I recommend getting the KGSS and spend the extra money on black gates (and the tall chassis for exta cooling) and silver wiring instead. That is what I did.

---Pat

 

[gpalmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ServinginEcuador A little warmth in the mids, but nothing else. The bass and highs of the KGSS were superior also IME.

What tubes did you roll in it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by PATB From PMs I received from other head-fiers who have heard both, the majority thought there is little to no difference between the KGSS and KGBH.

Close to what I've heard. Most of the folks I have talked to felt there was an improvement, just not one in line with the extra cost...

 

[gpalmer]

One other nugget to toss in here. If I remember correctly, Kevin Gilmore told me that the EL-34s in the Blue Hawaii were running at about 40% of rating which means that they're going to last a long time, the reduced power extends their life quite a bit.

 

[NeilPeart]

For me it really depends on the headphone used (and possibly the source as well, but I haven't spent enough time with the two to really make a solid statement regarding that facet). Yes the differences between the two are subtle, but with the Stax SR-007 "Omega II" I find the midrange tonality and treble smoothness of the Blue Hawaii to benefit the Japanese headphone’s sound. I find the KGSS (with its ever-so-slightly more controlled bass and extended treble) to match the Sennheiser HE 90 very well. Some might find this counter-intuitive as it seems the Blue Hawaii's slightly lazier, even-more-slightly “midrangy” nature to suit the HE 90 more properly while the KGSS's more clarified characteristics to mesh with the SR-007's flavor; for some reason, however, I just like the way the SR-007 sounds with the Blue Hawaii while I prefer the KGSS with the HE 90. Perhaps Justin's new HEV 90-like amp may change this, as it's essentially a modernized (and improved due to the many upgraded parts - see Kevin Gilmore's thoughts regarding this new amp) version of the HEV 90 - perhaps this new amp can meld the HEV 90's magical sound with the guts and sheer dynamics of the KGSS/Blue Hawaii. During moments such as this I regret my decision to rescind my membership with the "Mighty 18 Club."

To return back to the original topic (sorry for straying): the KGSS and Blue Hawaii are indeed similar-sounding (they do share many design similarities), but those subtle difference may be worth the extra cost to some depending on their tastes and/or associated equipment.