Kennerton ODIN, MAGISTER, VALI, Magni, Gjallarhorn, Rögnir, Thridi, Wodan, Thekk, and Thror Discussion.
Jan 12, 2022 at 9:42 AM Post #6,871 of 8,040

Alien HP

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I had forgotten about his review, but reading it back it's more farcical than I remember. The fact he conducts his tests with user modded pads would seem to render any EQ settings - to say nothing of his measurements and impressions - null and void.
I wonder if the modded pads caused degraded performance of the drivers as it was mentioned earlier in this thread.
 
Jan 12, 2022 at 10:14 AM Post #6,872 of 8,040

Nostoi

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I wonder if the modded pads caused degraded performance of the drivers as it was mentioned earlier in this thread.
Could be the case.

I do find it rather disingenuous if not odd that that review is still up there given the "test conditions" were flawed from the outset. If he's consistent and rigorous in his methodology, the least he can do is measure/review again. Maybe he'll come to same conclusions, but at least it will be consistent with the way the headphones were designed to be used...
 
Jan 12, 2022 at 10:31 AM Post #6,873 of 8,040

ardbeg1975

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Could be the case.

I do find it rather disingenuous if not odd that that review is still up there given the "test conditions" were flawed from the outset. If he's consistent and rigorous in his methodology, the least he can do is measure/review again. Maybe he'll come to same conclusions, but at least it will be consistent with the way the headphones were designed to be used...
Speaking of correct pads. Is going direct to Kennerton the only way in US to get Rögnir (planar) pads? And if so, can someone remind me which model comes stock with the headphones? I have the “bass tuning” version and I cannot tell which pads I have based on the pad thumbnail pictures on the web. Thank you.
 
Jan 12, 2022 at 11:27 AM Post #6,874 of 8,040

Paulo83

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Could be the case.

I do find it rather disingenuous if not odd that that review is still up there given the "test conditions" were flawed from the outset. If he's consistent and rigorous in his methodology, the least he can do is measure/review again. Maybe he'll come to same conclusions, but at least it will be consistent with the way the headphones were designed to be used...
I'm amazed that it continues to have the following that it does, people often seem surprisingly unwilling to question his methods or think for themselves.

I don't know if you ever saw the SMSL M500 DAC debacle? After initially posting a very positive review along with measurements and a recommendation, a user noticed that there was an operating flaw effecting 1 channel that dropped the distortion readings well out of spec. This sparked lots of people sending units back, calling for responses from the company, general outrage etc. No one seemed to question why in an environment built on the accuracy of testing and measurements, how the standard testing was not sufficient to pick it up.

Even better, the flaw was likely inaudible and the whole thing a bit of a storm in a tea cup.
 
Jan 12, 2022 at 11:54 AM Post #6,875 of 8,040

rlawry

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As I have posted before concerning ASR, they have their place in some instances. For standard measurements such as headphone frequency response curves, amplifier power output vs. distortion curves, digital resolution measurements, noise and signal-to-noise responses, etc, they can be instructive. For instance, I was considering they purchase of an Audioquest portable DAC/amp before seeing a distortion vs. power output curve that showed only a few milliwatts output into low headphone impedances. It was probably enough power to drive my efficient Gjallarhorns but almost certainly would have compromised dynamic headroom and bass control. Other measurements are somewhat curious as to methods cited. In many cases ASR allows measurements to color their listening impressions, i.e. they don't like the sound of anything that measures poorly. I would rather own something that sounds good and measures poorly than the other way around.

Other audiophile publications also have some of these issues. I remember Michael Fremer of Stereophile Magazine once lauded the sound of cables that employed some type of light to propagate sound, pronouncing them a watershed product whose sound vastly exceeded all that came before and recommended them as class A+. A sharp reader acquired a set of these "advanced" cables and subjected them to distortion measurements only to find that they generated vast amounts of second harmonic distortion, after which the now embarrassing Fremer review and A+ classification quietly disappeared.

Good measurements can be a means to an end, often leading to better sonic performance, but good measurements do not necessarily guarantee good sound. And poor measurements do not guaranteed poor sound. After all, we buy audio electronic products for their sound quality.
 
Jan 12, 2022 at 12:49 PM Post #6,876 of 8,040

jonathan c

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As I have posted before concerning ASR, they have their place in some instances. For standard measurements such as headphone frequency response curves, amplifier power output vs. distortion curves, digital resolution measurements, noise and signal-to-noise responses, etc, they can be instructive. For instance, I was considering they purchase of an Audioquest portable DAC/amp before seeing a distortion vs. power output curve that showed only a few milliwatts output into low headphone impedances. It was probably enough power to drive my efficient Gjallarhorns but almost certainly would have compromised dynamic headroom and bass control. Other measurements are somewhat curious as to methods cited. In many cases ASR allows measurements to color their listening impressions, i.e. they don't like the sound of anything that measures poorly. I would rather own something that sounds good and measures poorly than the other way around.

Other audiophile publications also have some of these issues. I remember Michael Fremer of Stereophile Magazine once lauded the sound of cables that employed some type of light to propagate sound, pronouncing them a watershed product whose sound vastly exceeded all that came before and recommended them as class A+. A sharp reader acquired a set of these "advanced" cables and subjected them to distortion measurements only to find that they generated vast amounts of second harmonic distortion, after which the now embarrassing Fremer review and A+ classification quietly disappeared.

Good measurements can be a means to an end, often leading to better sonic performance, but good measurements do not necessarily guarantee good sound. And poor measurements do not guaranteed poor sound. After all, we buy audio electronic products for their sound quality.
…but I love listening to graphs !…🤪
 
Jan 12, 2022 at 1:51 PM Post #6,877 of 8,040

ChJL

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Soundstage for the Rognir Dynamics is almost identical to my Focal Clear MGs. Clears are warmer. Clarity is similar in both.
Interesting, I own a pair of Clear OG's, wandering if I should by this package (blindly)? Would it make sense, would I add diversity when I already own Clears and a Magi? Even when the GH 40 is a gift would it make much sense to add the two to have a total o 4 DD's
 
Jan 12, 2022 at 1:55 PM Post #6,878 of 8,040

levap

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Perception and hearing varies widely from person to person. For my part I can to some extend understand what Amir might perceive on the Rögnir as "..every bit of life got sucked out of music [...] sound was flat and boring with no spatial effects". With EQ applied he also finally concludes: "with equalization, it turns from a frog to a prince and so very acceptable and even great.". In fact, I use his EQ setting with my Rögnir mandatory (even I have the standard tuned version), without it I personally find the tuning not overly convincing (or to my liking) besides the great sound stage out-of-the-box.
May be give Rognir a chance and try them for about a week EQ-less? :wink:
 
Jan 12, 2022 at 2:00 PM Post #6,879 of 8,040

levap

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As I have posted before concerning ASR, they have their place in some instances.
My objection was not about objective measurments, but about subjective listetning conclusions. ASR seems as good in measurments as deep and abyss-dark anti-good in real world listening conclusions )) So be warned! ))
 
Jan 12, 2022 at 2:09 PM Post #6,880 of 8,040

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Speaking of correct pads. Is going direct to Kennerton the only way in US to get Rögnir (planar) pads? And if so, can someone remind me which model comes stock with the headphones? I have the “bass tuning” version and I cannot tell which pads I have based on the pad thumbnail pictures on the web. Thank you.
I have the neutral tuning, pads are flat. "more bassy" pads for kennerton Rögnir are angled, if that helps
 
Jan 12, 2022 at 2:17 PM Post #6,881 of 8,040

Nostoi

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I have the neutral tuning, pads are flat. "more bassy" pads for kennerton Rögnir are angled, if that helps
@ardbeg1975 - I made an inquiry about this myself and heard from Kennerton today, I quote them:

"Ordering a set of ECL-01 pads without the perforation is very easy - just make an order for ECL-01 and write in the comment field: "For Rognir. Without the perforation".

@Lovebox - having had the "bassy" pads for a while, curious to hear your reflections on which (if any) you prefer? I'll order some myself in the next day or so, but any other impressions you have would be interesting.
 
Jan 12, 2022 at 3:55 PM Post #6,882 of 8,040

ChJL

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I own a Clear OG and a Magni already. Listen to underground Techno, D&B, ambient,... in short not your typical audiophile's music, not even your typical electronica or EDM.
Since Kennerton are generous enough to still offer the bundle I wonder if it makes sense to (blindly) add these two DD HP's...?
Will they add a substantially different experience compared to Clear OG's and Magni? Both of which I really enjoy!
 
Jan 12, 2022 at 5:02 PM Post #6,883 of 8,040

Paulo83

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My objection was not about objective measurments, but about subjective listetning conclusions. ASR seems as good in measurments as deep and abyss-dark anti-good in real world listening conclusions )) So be warned! ))
There's definitely a point to be made that any measurements are only as good as those measurements though. The method, accuracy and completeness are key, that often gets forgotten about as soon as people see a few colours on a graph.
 
Jan 12, 2022 at 7:04 PM Post #6,884 of 8,040

ardbeg1975

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@ardbeg1975 - I made an inquiry about this myself and heard from Kennerton today, I quote them:

"Ordering a set of ECL-01 pads without the perforation is very easy - just make an order for ECL-01 and write in the comment field: "For Rognir. Without the perforation".

@Lovebox - having had the "bassy" pads for a while, curious to hear your reflections on which (if any) you prefer? I'll order some myself in the next day or so, but any other impressions you have would be interesting.
My current pads are angled and perforated so any comments on those versus angled solid or flat solid?
 
Jan 12, 2022 at 10:12 PM Post #6,885 of 8,040

paradoxper

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I have already been the owner of Stealth for a couple of months. There is no reason not to share my impressions in comparison with Rognir. Including analyzing the "comparison" on audiosciencereview. Let me remind you what it is, quote: “I was listening to my every day Dan Clark Stealth before switching to the Rognir and boy did it feel like someone turned the lights off! Every bit of life got sucked out of music with no highs. The sound was flat and boring with no spatial effects.”

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/kennerton-rognir-review-closed-back-headphone.27362/

Let's start with burn-in. Or "burn-in". I haven't had such vivid impressions for a long time. And taking into account the review on ASR, I paid special attention to the process in the head.

Wearing headphones for the first time, I was somewhat puzzled and stunned - yes, cool, neutral and beautiful. But why is it so uncomfortable - the treble is too harsh and why the bass seems to be not frankly small (say, on electronics, it was "bludgeoned" to the extent of the pressure power immediately and out of the box), but still clearly not enough (for metal). Hands were actively reaching for the equalizer for the first couple of days, but it was decided to let the headphones (new) and ears (biological) warm up. I must say right away – in the second week there were no thoughts about the equalizer. The effect on highs was similar in meaning to the first connection after a week-long break in listening. Conclusions what kind of ”burn-in" works most, hardware or biological - I suggest those who wish to do it themselves )

And the comparison with Rognir. For my ears, the Rognir is somewhat brighter, sharper on the treble. Therefore, what was meant by "turned the lights off”, "music with no highs" is a mystery to me. I will assume a possible combination of bran new Rognir without burn-in plus an unsuitable source or individual hearing characteristics when switching from specific highs of Stealth. But in general, I would characterize the Stealth highs as more accurate, perhaps, although I do not have any formal complaints about Rognir. The mids of Stealth is a little more "glossy" and “transparent”, Rognir has an ”analog" and “velvety” in comparison, the difference here is more of a taste-ish. With the bass, it's more interesting - Stealth plays slightly slowly and softens the attacks, while Rognir gives more powerful, punchy, explosive transitions with a higher overall speed and resolution on the bass. In the energetic version, bass of Rognir is slightly more in volume than Stealth, in the standard version, perhaps a little less. Perhaps Stealth is also more correct on the bass, but Rognir is clearly more effective. The soundstage size of Rognir is not a record-breaker, but it is more voluminous than that of Stealth, however, I will also attribute the difference here to taste - the scaling looks quite consistent and proportional, I will not undertake to judge.

Which in the end we have. For me, Rognir are headphones for vivid emotions, maximally engaged listening. Rognir shoots you into the music without giving you a chance to sit on the sidelines. Stealth is rather a contemplative and subtle connoisseur. Builds an extremely verified and balanced sound landscape, extremely high-class, but still a little from the outside view. The phrase from ASR review - “Every bit of life got sucked out of music" looks doubly strange, in my experience, deliberately neutral headphones like Stealth usually look like this for the average listener, but not more motionally-charged-colored ones like Rognir. Alas, but Amir (the author of the review and the owner of the resource) apparently either has limited experience listening to (and not measuring) audio devices, if he obviously makes "childish" mistakes when comparing with listening. Or has an interest in writing as he wrote. And I will not undertake to choose which option is worse in this case…
Very nice and agreed as a whole.

I will just say based on the Diana Phi TC, all of the closed backs are in for an awakening.
 

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