Kennerton ODIN, MAGISTER, VALI, Magni, Gjallarhorn, Rögnir, Thridi, Wodan, Thekk, and Thror Discussion.
Nov 26, 2021 at 11:34 AM Post #6,451 of 6,997

wazzupi

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Guys, I have a confession to make, after that first day of listening to my Rognir's I subconsciously put them back into the packaging and hid them, as if they were some sort of treasure or secret. I observed my Dog the other day, after he was given a piece of bread and I would see him try desperately to hide and store this piece of bread somewhere safe. I feel that we share the same understanding on what was important to us and why we did what we did. XD
 
Nov 29, 2021 at 1:49 PM Post #6,452 of 6,997

soundblast75

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Exactly I saw that review and listened to this headphone and I'm done with Amir and everyone in that forum. there is this insane elitist deniers mob mentality over there.
+1
 
Nov 29, 2021 at 3:10 PM Post #6,453 of 6,997

rlawry

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I agree with what has been said here about Audio Science Review. They, like most reviewers, have their benefits and detriments. It does seem as though they rely almost totally on measurements and seem to like the sound solely based on how they rate their measurements. They don't often appear to like the sound of products that measure poorly, even if it is evident the measurements appear to do little to predict sound quality such as with digital products and headphones, However, I have learned something about amplifier measurements in that I feel traditional measurements can often predict sound quality. Following their reasoning has kept me from making certain grave mistakes such as trying low-powered amps and OTL amps for my 33 ohm Gjallarhorn GH50 JME Mark 2 headphones. See their reviews of the Schiit Audio Valhalla 2 OTL amp for instance. Since the Gjallarhorns are so sensitive they probably could be marginally driven by such low output current OTL amps but with their low load impedance they wouldn't be a good match and bass and dynamics would almost certainly be inferior.
 
Nov 29, 2021 at 3:21 PM Post #6,454 of 6,997

jonathan c

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I agree with what has been said here about Audio Science Review. They, like most reviewers, have their benefits and detriments. It does seem as though they rely almost totally on measurements and seem to like the sound solely based on how they rate their measurements. They don't often appear to like the sound of products that measure poorly, even if it is evident the measurements appear to do little to predict sound quality such as with digital products and headphones, However, I have learned something about amplifier measurements in that I feel traditional measurements can often predict sound quality. Following their reasoning has kept me from making certain grave mistakes such as trying low-powered amps and OTL amps for my 33 ohm Gjallarhorn GH50 JME Mark 2 headphones. See their reviews of the Schiit Audio Valhalla 2 OTL amp for instance. Since the Gjallarhorns are so sensitive they probably could be marginally driven by such low output current OTL amps but with their low load impedance they wouldn't be a good match and bass and dynamics would almost certainly be inferior.
~ Excuse me - but my Valhalla II (tubes: Foton 6N6P, Tungsram E88CC) has driven my Gjallarhorn JM Edition via Norne Vykari cable extremely well with clarity, depth, and dynamics across the frequency spectrum. If that is a ‘grave mistake’, I will take it (and keep seeking improvement).
~ I cannot help but think that the ASR clique operates under the following principle: “Music is for losers who do not listen to graphs”.
 
Nov 29, 2021 at 4:00 PM Post #6,455 of 6,997

Shane D

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Nov 29, 2021 at 4:09 PM Post #6,456 of 6,997

rlawry

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~ Excuse me - but my Valhalla II (tubes: Foton 6N6P, Tungsram E88CC) has driven my Gjallarhorn JM Edition via Norne Vykari cable extremely well with clarity, depth, and dynamics across the frequency spectrum. If that is a ‘grave mistake’, I will take it (and keep seeking improvement).
~ I cannot help but think that the ASR clique operates under the following principle: “Music is for losers who do not listen to graphs”.
Hmmm, OK, I wouldn't have predicted from the Valhalla 2 distortion vs. power graphs on ASR for a 33 ohm load like that with the Gjallarhorns that it would be a good match but you obviously have experienced good results so I stand corrected in this case. However, it is well-established that in general driving low impedance phones with an OTL amp with their high output impedances will result in limited output currents and poor control of the drivers. The Valhalla produces a maximum of 31 mW into 33 ohms. It probably gets away with it knowing that the Gjallarhorns have extremely high sensitivity of 116dB at 1 mW, in other words, it only takes power on the order of microwatts to drive them to satisfying levels. Maybe this is something I might visit sometime in the future.

Just curious, have you compared how your Gjallarhorns' sound with other amp designs such as solid-state, SET tube amps, or push-pull tube amps? I have avoided the use of OTL amps but wondered how they would sound with Glenn, Feliks, and others of such designs. Thanks.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ents-of-schiit-valhalla-2-headphone-amp.8357/
 
Nov 29, 2021 at 6:05 PM Post #6,457 of 6,997

jonathan c

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Just curious, have you compared how your Gjallarhorns' sound with other amp designs such as solid-state, SET tube amps, or push-pull tube amps? I have avoided the use of OTL amps but wondered how they would sound with Glenn, Feliks, and others of such designs. Thanks.
~ First, I am not ‘bashing’ you. My critique is directed to an over-reliance on quantitative data**. Music, and the performance of components to reproduce that music, cannot be usefully evaluated solely or primarily by numerical measures. The ears, heart, mind must be satisfied!
~ There are pairings of components that deliver the unexpected goods despite what “the numbers” might predict. For me, the other night: Grado RS-1x with Woo WA2 (otl).
~ The Gjallarhorn JM Edition works extremely well with: Flux Lab Acoustics FA-22, Linear Tube Audio MZ3, Schiit Audio Lyr III, Woo WA6. Clarity, dynamics, even tonality, frequency range are excellent with all these h/p/a. Differences occur regarding height / width of soundstage, recovery of ambience.
~ I can say this because I have owned these h/p/a for some time and know how they contribute to the presentation of the music.
** To me, ‘information’ is ‘data’ that conveys meaning. 🤷🏻
 
Nov 29, 2021 at 6:17 PM Post #6,458 of 6,997

rlawry

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Yes, agreed, science is a means to an end in developing the best sound but does not always predict it. I would rather listen to something that sounds good rather than merely measuring well. I may try some type of OTL amp to see how it sounds with my Gjallarhorns although with my type of preferred music--classic rock, progressive rock, and jazz--it may well behoove me to continue to use my Quicksilver SET amp.
 
Nov 29, 2021 at 6:45 PM Post #6,460 of 6,997

jonathan c

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Yes, agreed, science is a means to an end in developing the best sound but does not always predict it. I would rather listen to something that sounds good rather than merely measuring well. I may try some type of OTL amp to see how it sounds with my Gjallarhorns although with my type of preferred music--classic rock, progressive rock, and jazz--it may well behoove me to continue to use my Quicksilver SET amp.
That is a great amp! If you tube roll at all, I will recommend, if I may, the RFT ECC83 with ‘foil getters’ (from the erstwhile East Germany). In the LTA MZ3, I use RFT ECC81 with ‘foil getters’: fantastic !
 
Nov 29, 2021 at 7:03 PM Post #6,461 of 6,997

rlawry

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That is a great amp! If you tube roll at all, I will recommend, if I may, the RFT ECC83 with ‘foil getters’ (from the erstwhile East Germany). In the LTA MZ3, I use RFT ECC81 with ‘foil getters’: fantastic !
Thanks for the tip. I will try to find those RFT tubes for the 12AX7s. Right now I am using a pair of 1960 CBS O-getter 7729s, relative unobtanium and the next-to-best 12AX7 I have heard, even easily besting the Telefunken ECC803S. The best is a pair of 1950s Raytheon (made by CBS I believe) D-Getter 7729s I have in my speaker-based system and even rarer. BTW, CBS and Raytheon began sourcing the 7729s in the early 60s from GE that have the etched dots in the glass and are merely ordinary-sounding. For the EL84s I am using some 1960s Amperex but am considering using some Bendix 6094s with pin adapters.
 
Nov 29, 2021 at 7:17 PM Post #6,462 of 6,997

jonathan c

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Its interesting how folks get personally offended because a machine didnt like their favorite piece of gear.
It wasn’t that. I just dislike the idea that audio purchase decisions might be made because of excessive reliance on “the numbers”…without any form of audition…
 
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Nov 29, 2021 at 7:33 PM Post #6,463 of 6,997

jonathan c

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Thanks for the tip. I will try to find those RFT tubes for the 12AX7s. Right now I am using a pair of 1960 CBS O-getter 7729s, relative unobtanium and the next-to-best 12AX7 I have heard, even easily besting the Telefunken ECC803S. The best is a pair of 1950s Raytheon (made by CBS I believe) D-Getter 7729s I have in my speaker-based system and even rarer. BTW, CBS and Raytheon began sourcing the 7729s in the early 60s from GE that have the etched dots in the glass and are merely ordinary-sounding. For the EL84s I am using some 1960s Amperex but am considering using some Bendix 6094s with pin adapters.
Check ‘private message’.
 
Nov 29, 2021 at 8:08 PM Post #6,464 of 6,997

Joaquin Dinero

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It wasn’t that. I just dislike the idea that audio purchase decisions might be made because of excessive reliance on “the numbers”…without any form of audition…
Sure, I get it. And I wasn't specifically referring to anything you said, more in general how anytime the bogeyman ASR gets mentioned around here people completely lose their crap. "How can he say those mean things about my precious ?" He just runs a thing through a digital analyzer and posts the results. It's not part of some nefarious campaign to take down Kennerton (or Grado, or Beyerdynamic, or Abyss, or . . . )
 
Nov 29, 2021 at 9:16 PM Post #6,465 of 6,997

rlawry

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Yes, as I stated before, there are some good things about ASR, especially in applications such as amplifiers, phono stages, preamps, and others. In other applications such as DACs, headphones, maybe not so much as I don't see much correlation between their measurements and sound quality. I sometimes refer to them as well as to other reviews as a starting point. I am not interested in trying absolutely every model of some audio equipment and use these tools to narrow the field and/or home in on models for more in-depth listening. That is how I found the Gjallarhorns, my Quicksilver amp, and my Auralic Vega DAC.
 

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