[Wmcmanus]

Ok, dirty trick... quit freaking out, there is a catch to it. Keith is fine, as far as I know. Or at least as fine as anyone who has snorted his dad's ashes can possibly be. So, just so it's clear, the title of this thread was just something I made up as an attention grabber. But it kind of has something to do with the rest of the story. Keith is alive and as "well" as Keith can possibly be described as being.

***

On to the real story...

As many of you probably know, I've spent most of my adult life teaching at the college level, primarily in the accounting and law disciplines, but also finance as well. Over the years (I'm 45 now and started my college teaching days as a 20 year old graduate student), I've gradually become less of a contemporary (like a brother) to my students and more of an "adult" figure. At first, I started to feel like an uncle, mostly when I was in my 30s. But now I'm definitely squarely into the dad level, both in their eyes and in mine.

So from time to time, I'll come up with an idea that I want to test with them just to gauge the level of disconnect between myself and my audience, since afterall, teaching is all about communication so you need to understand your audience in order to be able to effectively move them along from point A to point B.

Tonight was one such night. I devised a quick quiz to see what they knew about the kind of music that I grew up with and remains near and dear to my heart. Then, to be fair, I asked them to develop a similar quiz that I could take during our next class. Of course they're always reluctant to do any homework assignments that won't count in their grades, so we'll see if they actually follow through.

Given my age, and being a white, male, American, I know all about The Stones, The Who, The Doors, The Beatles, Clapton and of course Bob Dylan, among so many others. But I didn't suspect that they would. Nor do I really suspect that I'll know much about their music. Most of my students are around 25 or less, non-white (in various varieties), female (lucky me), and have lived most of their lives in the Caribbean. Obviously, we've had different life experiences, different interests and tastes, different perspectives, and thus a lot of potential for a disconnect in terms of communication.

Ok, so end of lesson. Here was the 5 question multiple choice quiz that they took tonight, with the votes cast for each option shown in parens:

1. Which of the following was not a member of The Beatles?
A. Ringo Starr
B. Eric Clapton (10)
C. Paul McCartney (2)
D. George Harrison (1)
E. John Lennon

2. Jim Morrison was the lead singer for which band?
A. The Cars (1)
B. The Rolling Stones (7)
C. The Doors (3)
D. The Who (2)
E. Stone Temple Pilots

3. Who were the Crosby and Young of the band Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young?
A. Bing Crosby and Lester Young (1)
B. David Crosby and Neil Young (9)
C. Bing Crosby and Neil Young (2)
D. David Crosby and Lester Young (1)

4. Who wrote the song, “Blowin’ in the Wind”?
A. Bruce Springsteen (2)
B. John Cougar-Mellencamp (1)
C. Bob Dylan (6)
D. Willie Nelson (4)
E. Bobby Knight

5. Which of the following is still alive?
A. Johnny Cash (1)
B. Ray Charles (2)
C. Elvis Presley
D. Keith Richards (9)
E. Sam Cooke (1)

In terms of demographics, there were only 13 students in class (2 were missing), and of them 11 of them were female. One Canadian, one Caymanian who grew up in New York, one Phillipino, and 10 who have lived most of their lives in the Caribbean (Cayman, Jamaica, Belize, and Barbados were represented). The oldest student is 46, three others are in their mid to late 30s and the remaining 9 are in their early to mid 20s. In other words, 4 "mature" students and 9 traditional college age.

On an individual basis the results were:

5/5 (2)
4/5 (4)
3/5 (0)
2/5 (4)
1/5 (3)
0/5 (0) *

* But one of the 1/5 students admitted that Keith Richards was just a wild guess.

Basically, half the students had a clue and the other half had no clue at all. If anything, they know who Eric Clapton is, and thankfully know that Elvis is dead. (OJ Simpson is about as innocent as Elvis is alive, BTW). Nobody thought that Bobby Knight wrote "Blowin' in the Wind" which kind of bummed me out. Maybe I needed a larger sample size.

But the girl from Canada was cool. When we were going over the answers, she named out all of the lead singers for each of the groups in question #2, even Ric Ocasek for The Cars and Scott Weiland for the Stone Temple Pilots! I was amazed. Too bad she's married. She's actually quite cute, not to mention bright and well employed. I asked her to spell Ocasek and she said, "Oh c'mon! I'm not that good!" To which I said, "Neither am I." In fact, I had to Google it just now to make sure I had it right. I did, actually, so I guess I get the bonus point.

This quiz was not for credit, by the way.

I'm not sure exactly what I learned from the experience except that my expectations were pretty much met. I've given similar quizzes in the past based on sports, geography, and other matters. The results are almost always depressingly similar to these results. If nothing else, I can teach them something about accounting and law, and just leave the rest of it to their own devices.

 

[gz76]

Quote:

I've given similar quizzes in the past based on sports, geography, and other matters. The results are almost always depressingly similar to these results.

Dirty trick indeed! We all have different life experiences, values, and of course musical preferences. I think your quiz highlights that, and I don't see it as a problem like you seem to.

 

[episiarch]

Geez, man, way to lead with a headline.

As long as this is an anecdotes thread, here's one.

A year or two back, celebrity chef Anthony Bourdain gave a talk at The Commonwealth Club in San Francisco (you can probably still find it in their podcast feed if you look). During the Q&A session, somebody asked about his health given that he's a heavy smoker, eats lots of red meat, stays up until all hours drinking and partying, and has a history of drug abuse. He said:

"well, every morning I Google Keith Richards. And if he's still alive, I know I'm gonna be OK."

 

[gz76]

hehehe. If I was drinking coke I would have just snorted it out my nose.

 

[Jaska]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wmcmanus /img/forum/go_quote.gif Over the years (I'm 45 now and started my college teaching days as a 20 year old graduate student), I've gradually become less of a contemporary (like a brother) to my students and more of an "adult" figure. At first, I started to feel like an uncle, mostly when I was in my 30s. But now I'm definitely squarely into the dad level, both in their eyes and in mine.

I'm in the same line of work, and this phenomenon is as real as can be. I'm currently 36, and sense that, for whatever reason, I'm already crossing into the "perceived as Daddy or other annoying old guy" zone. But mostly, I feel the same from year to year, and the students just start to look younger and younger

.

Your post was quite interesting, and it's great to see that you enjoy teaching to the extent that you make a real effort to make a meaningful connection with your students.

 

[digitalmind]

I enjoyed reading that. I was a bit surprised by the outcome of question 2, would've figured that most would get that one right.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gz76 /img/forum/go_quote.gif hehehe. If I was drinking coke I would have just snorted it out my nose.

Keith would object to drinking coke. He would also object to snorting it out your nose.

 

[episiarch]

Re feeling increasingly older than one's students, it's interesting each year to peruse the latest Beloit College Mindset List, reminding us, for example, that for last year's entering students born in 1989, "Tiananmen Square is a 2008 Olympics venue, not the scene of a massacre" and "MTV has never featured music videos."

Here's the description from the site:

A note about the Beloit College Mindset List
To save readers the time and effort of writing to us about the Beloit College Mindset List, we offer four brief explanations.
The Mindset List is not a chronological listing of things that happened in the year that the entering first-year students were born.
Our effort is to identify a worldview of 18 year-olds in the fall of 2007. We take a risk in some cases of making generalizations, particularly given that our students at Beloit College for instance come from every state and scores of nations.
The "Class of 2011" refers to students entering college this year. They are generally 18 which suggests they were born in 1989.
The list identifies the experiences and event horizons of students as they commence higher education and is not meant to reflect on their preparatory education.

 

[wower]

Phew... 5 for 5. I guess that puts my in Wayen's good books for a bit.

Still, I will need time to forgive the headline. Not cool!

 

[bada bing]

The real question: is Jim Morrison as dead as O.J. is innocent; or is he as alive as Keith Richards ?

 

[spookygonk]

I saw the thread title and thought, "Again???!"

 

[goldenratiophi]

Wow, sorry to hear that. RIP Keith Richards

 

[Orcin]

This deceptive use of thread titles is outrageous. I'm going to report you to a moderator. Err... uhh...

 

[Bigguy]

Wayne, as long as you aren't asking your students "Who's your daddy?" you are cool to me.

 

[BradJudy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by episiarch /img/forum/go_quote.gif A year or two back, celebrity chef Anthony Bourdain gave a talk at The Commonwealth Club in San Francisco (you can probably still find it in their podcast feed if you look). During the Q&A session, somebody asked about his health given that he's a heavy smoker, eats lots of red meat, stays up until all hours drinking and partying, and has a history of drug abuse. He said: "well, every morning I Google Keith Richards. And if he's still alive, I know I'm gonna be OK."

No need to dig up the Q&A session - he used the same line in one of the episodes of his show "No Reservations".

 

[Wmcmanus]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gz76 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Dirty trick indeed! We all have different life experiences, values, and of course musical preferences. I think your quiz highlights that, and I don't see it as a problem like you seem to.

No, I don't see it as a problem at all, and I hope that they will give me the quiz that they have promised to so that they can see what my whole purpose of this experiment was! It's to open a dialogue with them in terms of how they see life and to what extent, if any, older teachers like myself can take certain actions, even if small ones, to acknowledge that we all come from different perspectives, background, beliefs, and values, etc.

Since I teach mostly accounting and law, which are not "touchy feely" types of courses that devote a lot of class time exploring how students "feel" about the subject matter, it's important for me (from my perspective) to point out to them from time to time that the world didn't begin the day that they were born and it doesn't end at the high water mark on Seven Mile Beach in Grand Cayman.

There is much that they can learn and they shouldn't limit their horizons, just as I shouldn't limit mine. The idea is to present a challenge to them to think outside of the box and to consider other influences, not just the ones that have had the most direct bearing on their lives.

In class, we study and learn accounting and law, and I'm as comfortable with that as they are. But as with any social interaction, you can always learn from one another so I want them to know a little about my favorite music and I want to know a little about the kinds of music they love, and will hopefully get a chance sample some of it.

What I meant by "depressingly similar results" is that each time I've given this sort of quiz in recent years, be it about sports, music, geography, or whatever, it has reminded me about how I've aged and in many ways have lost some contact and connection with the younger generation. So the part about "depressing" reflects as much on my sadness that I can't stay young forever as it does on the fact that there is much that younger people these days are missing out on by not extending their horizons.

And just to be fair, I know there are all sorts of things from my parents' generation that I've missed out on, but when it comes to music, I suspect that I know and appreciate the 40's and 50's influences every bit as much as my parents and their friends do, it's just that I wasn't around to experience it first hand.

But the beauty of recorded music, is that like good books from the past, it can be enjoyed immensely at any time. It's historical in a sense, but it's 'live' as you listen to Sarah Vaughn at Mister Kelly's or as you turn the pages of a Dickens novel or read what Jefferson had to say in the Federalist Papers or study maps of ancient civilizations. The possibilities are endless to an open and inquisitive mind.

I don't doubt what you're saying at all in terms of everyone having different experiences, values and musical preferences; in fact, I very much embrace this! It's something worth talking about from time to time with a group of people that you have been hired to "teach" and as we all know, you can only help to teach people who are willing to learn. Dogs and cats, you can teach, but people have to do the learning on their own and the best you can do is to properly guide them in the discovery process.

So, no, I don't presume for a moment that my students will have the same or even remotely similar perspective on all of this that I do, but that won't prevent me from trying to reach them in some way that will hopefully help them to ignite their own sparks that will move their lives forward. So often, I see them shuffling into class and then back home to do what they need to do, and then up in the morning to face another day of work (most of my students work full time), and then back off to class again.

It sometimes seems though their entire lives are "duty bound" because that's where they happen to be at this moment in time. Part of what I try desperately to convey is that they can become whomever they choose to become and if accounting or law doesn't appeal to them then it's incumbent upon them to figure out what does!

Life is not a dress rehearsal; it's happening in real time, and so many people these days seem to be caught up in the here and now to the point where they haven't taken any time at all to "explore" the world outside of their immediate influences. There is just so much out there to see and do and learn about if they would only look!

That's what I was trying to get across to them with this quiz and with many other things that I do when chatting with them outside of class. If I have one criticism of today's students its that, in general, they seem to lack a sense of vibrancy that accompanied my youth. They act a lot older than they are and don't generally shine with much passion about much of anything at all.

That I find sad and am forever confounded by; they need to know that things will change for them as they age and it won't (at some point) be all about earning a paycheck and getting good grades. At some point, you've got to grasp the ropes of the pony and ride it hard! I'm not seeing much of that, and it saddens me that their minds seem to be so narrowly focused.

I can honestly say that I'm not being critical of them at all and in many ways I'm rather proud of them for being able to stay so focused and goal oriented. More than anything, I like to remind them that there can be a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, but that they shouldn't live their entire lives in endless hope for that magic moment of "wealth" or "comfort" because it might not come in the form that they're hoping for. Many of life's greatest treasures are absolutely free, like Sarah Vaughn and Charles Dickens.