keep my portable DAC/Amp or use the on-board one?

[twitchyzero]

newbie looking for input from this community

use cases: music, games
headphone: Senn HD 650 300 ohms
portable DAC/AMP: Creative Soundblaster E5 (Cirrus Logic CS4398 + Texas Instruments 6120A2)
mobo DAC/AMP: ESS Sabre 9018Q2C "with Japanese caps"

so i don't use 99% of the features on my Creative portable dac and it's never let my desk so I dont care about portability...to be honest I plan to use Spotify as i can't be bothered to download music these days (hopefully they'll be streaming lossless soon enough)

My new mobo has the ESS Sabre chip (very little info online) it features 32-bit vs the 24-bit on the Creative.

just how important is the lowest ohms? 2.2 v. 16?

is the low & high gain switch on the E5 useful in my case?

mobo only has BT 4.1, E5 has BT 4.0 with aptX, AAC, SBC, does this even matter?

I dont have FLAC on hand right now so the just listen to it and decide advice is out...but I want to know which has the better fidelity potential.

thank you.

 

[squee116]

Your Sennheisers would benefit from better amp/dac, but are you asking about sufficiency to run the headphones, or quality/dollar?

 

[twitchyzero]

asking if the lower impedance, low-high gain switch, bluetooth codecs are worth keeping the portable over just plugging to the on-board dac/amp...or is it just splitting hairs.

 

[squee116]

The answer to

but I want to know which has the better fidelity potential.

has little to do with

asking if the lower impedance, low-high gain switch, bluetooth codecs are worth keeping the portable over just plugging to the on-board dac/amp...or is it just splitting hairs.

in regards to your specific headphones.

Neither option will be powering the headphones to make them shine, and I expect the same of the integrated DACs. Senn HD650 isn't bluetooth. Hence my question, are you just asking about sufficiency? Are you planning on buying bluetooth headphones later?

If it's solely the 650, then I'd say get something better. Modi/Magni, Jotunheim, something with more juice.

 

[twitchyzero]

i have a soundbar that has aptx which would be convenient to connect up to...but not much a factor at all as it'll be mostly through the headphone.

originally got the E5 because it was feature-packed and had many gaming-friendly support...but honestly haven't used any of it. Thought about eliminating clutter since it looks like the integrated one has similar if not better output.

what's the spec I'm looking for if I were looking for something that can make the HD-650 shine? and is it discernable in near loseless streaming or only if I download the highest bitrate material?

 

[squee116]

That's going to depend on your preference of sound signature. Some people swear by tube amps, others say it's too warm for them. I'm personally happy with my setup of my MAC 1900 and the HD6XX I borrowed from a friend, but I haven't done any long term testing. But with the general reputation of being a bit more power hungry, and scaling with equipment, you'd probably be better off with even a magni/modi combo or something similar.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

...to be honest I plan to use Spotify as i can't be bothered to download music these days (hopefully they'll be streaming lossless soon enough)

Maybe try Tidal. But for anything less than dedicated, not doing anything else other than listen kind o listening, Spotify on Extreme Quality is already very good. You might even prefer the selection on Spotify.

just how important is the lowest ohms? 2.2 v. 16?

As a very rough guide, your load (headphone) impedance needs to be around 8x the output impedance. If the 2.2ohms there is the output impedance then you can run pretty much anything on it, at least as far as impedance is concerned.

If the 16ohms is output impedance then 16ohms x 8 = 128ohms. Your HD600 won't have any problems there.

is the low & high gain switch on the E5 useful in my case?

Depends. If you can get to your preferred loudness level (and you can't hear clipping or obviously bad distortion, or noise), then use low gain; high gain if you really need to. If even high gain can't get to your preferred listening level, you need an amp with more power with equal or higher gain.

That said, pretty much any of the desktop headphone amps that are popular enough here can easily blow your eardrums with the HD600 before they clip, so it's not like it'll be hard to find one.

mobo only has BT 4.1, E5 has BT 4.0 with aptX, AAC, SBC, does this even matter?

Not if you're using USB to the E5 or plug the headphones into the motherboard.

I dont have FLAC on hand right now so the just listen to it and decide advice is out...but I want to know which has the better fidelity potential.

Not a lot of specs to go on for guessing that though. But based on what info is available I'd say it comes down to whether either has the DSP features you need (which might not matter to you) and whether you prefer turning a knob as on the E5 vs scrolling to the corner, click, then click or drag on the volume level bar (or use hotkeys) if you have to use Windows volume control with the motherboard.

portable DAC/AMP: Creative Soundblaster E5 (Cirrus Logic CS4398 + Texas Instruments 6120A2)
mobo DAC/AMP: ESS Sabre 9018Q2C "with Japanese caps"

6120A2 is purpose built as a headphone driver chip, motherboard likely uses op-amps with other uses. it still comes down to the circuit though - a lot of amps out there use op-amps. Motherboard might have more power but just because it's hooked up to the PC's PSU does not mean it has a heck of a lot of power.

Also pretty much any decent amp or DAC right now uses Japanese caps, but for the most part the blanket term just refers to more reliable capacitors than Taiwan caps that leaked easily, which prompted manufacturers to have to say that they use Japanese caps. ELNA/Panasonic for example are very quiet and depending on the circuit, practically no different from boutique capacitors other than for size (which doesn't affect the sound, only the user's perception; in my case I only use Mundorf over Elna because the former are actually easier to get over here, ie, there's a dealer with a tech who can install them assuming they fit, while Elna needs to be ordered from the supplier, can't find it in local electronics parts stores, etc).

Again I'd say it comes down more to whether you can hear a difference as well as how you'd rather control the volume. That's the great thing about high sensitivity and high impedance - pretty much anything that isn't starved for voltage will nto really struggle driving it, unless you're after a totally low distortion, low noise, no clipping even when you crank it up performance.

 

[twitchyzero]

thanks for the detailed reply

no thanks to tidal...the organization that runs it looks like a joke and selection is far more important

i already had 90% of my decision made up, just wanted to see if it may be worth keeping the portable unit

the portable one was more than an arm reach away and the new keyboard i will be getting has a knob

i play at pretty low volume on the headphones

if I dont usually play around with the equalizer, how important is the DSP? and how do i know what's the one in my mobo? The one in the E5 is a quad-core rebranded in 2012.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

if I dont usually play around with the equalizer, how important is the DSP? and how do i know what's the one in my mobo? The one in the E5 is a quad-core rebranded in 2012.

The EQ included in soundcards' DSP is practically useless compared to using global EQ apps like Equalizer APO or on players like Neutron Music Player on Android, which have variable parameters like Center Frequency, curve type, Q-factor, etc.

What most people really use hardware DSP for is Virtual Surround apps like Dolby Headphone or whatever the others are called.

 

[PurpleAngel]

newbie looking for input from this community
use cases: music, games
headphone: Senn HD 650 300 ohms
portable DAC/AMP: Creative Soundblaster E5 (Cirrus Logic CS4398 + Texas Instruments 6120A2)
mobo DAC/AMP: ESS Sabre 9018Q2C "with Japanese caps"
so i don't use 99% of the features on my Creative portable dac and it's never let my desk so I dont care about portability...to be honest I plan to use Spotify as i can't be bothered to download music these days (hopefully they'll be streaming lossless soon enough)
My new mobo has the ESS Sabre chip (very little info online) it features 32-bit vs the 24-bit on the Creative.
just how important is the lowest ohms? 2.2 v. 16?
is the low & high gain switch on the E5 useful in my case?
mobo only has BT 4.1, E5 has BT 4.0 with aptX, AAC, SBC, does this even matter?
I dont have FLAC on hand right now so the just listen to it and decide advice is out...but I want to know which has the better fidelity potential. thank you.

CD audio is 16-bit/44.1K, so chances of you having any audio that is 32-bit, let alone 24-bit, is going to be rare, so 24-bit vs 32-bit is not a big deal.
Having an headphone amplifier with a low 2.2-Ohm output impedance is nice, for headphones that are 16-Ohms, but makes no difference for headphones that are 300-Ohm.
As the Sennheiser HD650 are 300-Ohms, you want to use high gain (on any head amplifier, Creative E5 or other).

Your in the best position to know if the Creative E5 or the motherboard's on-board sound better, for the HD650, as you can use your own ears to see which sound better (we can't listen for you).
Each make and model of motherboard can come with slightly different hardware audio built in (beside the main DSP audio chip), so it not easy to say for sure how well on-board sounds, from board to board.

I would try and talk you into getting an external headphone amplifier, the HD650 is thought of doing better (improving audio quality), with better amplifiers.
Maybe selling off the Creative E5 and maybe replacing it with a Darkvoice OTL tube headphone amplifier ($214-$250).

 

[PurpleAngel]

asking if the lower impedance, low-high gain switch, bluetooth codecs are worth keeping the portable over just plugging to the on-board dac/amp...or is it just splitting hairs.

I do not think Bluetooth (codec or other) has any bearing on the using on-board vs the E5.

 

[PurpleAngel]

i have a soundbar that has aptx which would be convenient to connect up to...but not much a factor at all as it'll be mostly through the headphone.
originally got the E5 because it was feature-packed and had many gaming-friendly support...but honestly haven't used any of it. Thought about eliminating clutter since it looks like the integrated one has similar if not better output.
what's the spec I'm looking for if I were looking for something that can make the HD-650 shine? and is it discernable in near loseless streaming or only if I download the highest bitrate material?

If you have no use for most (if any) of the Creative's E5 features, then sell it off and buy an external headphone amplifier (Darkvoice 336SE) and plug it into the MB's on-board audio.

 

[PurpleAngel]

thanks for the detailed reply
no thanks to tidal...the organization that runs it looks like a joke and selection is far more important
i already had 90% of my decision made up, just wanted to see if it may be worth keeping the portable unit
the portable one was more than an arm reach away and the new keyboard i will be getting has a knob
i play at pretty low volume on the headphones
if I dont usually play around with the equalizer, how important is the DSP? and how do i know what's the one in my mobo? The one in the E5 is a quad-core rebranded in 2012.

Please list the make and model of the motherboard?
Chances are the motherboard comoes with a Realtek ALC 1150 or ALC1220 DSP audio processor, these DSP chips come with a built in DAC function.
Your motherboard's add-on DAC chip (ESSSabre 9018) might only take over the DAC function for 2 channels, the Front Speakers and Headphones, which is fine.
The Realtek may still do the DAC function for the center/sub-woofer/rear channels, which is fine as your going to be using headphones.

For $30 Creative Labs will sell you their software, with SBX, that runs off Realtek audio processors.
Not sure if it's as 100% as good (headphone surround sound wise) as their SBX software that runs off their own Soundcore3D DSP audio processor.