K701 VS. HD650 VS. Beyerdynamic DT990 - I tested them today
Mar 19, 2008 at 7:58 PM Post #31 of 47

Patu

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Good impressions really.

I'm not sure if you told this earlier in this thread (sorry if I missed), but what equipment did you use for the audition? Which CD-player and amplifier? With K701 and HD650, those two will make huge differences. This has been said millions of times but I'll say it again. If a headphone is driven with wrong equipment, the result will be very unsatisfying. HD650 needs speed, details and clarity from the rest of equipment chain when for K701, I'd choose something to tame the harsh high end and give some warmth and smoothness to the sound.

For me, HD650 works perfectly for rock music. I like somewhat laid back and smooth sound. What's best is that there's still all the details and clarity, but because of the smooth touch and slightly laid back sound, you will never get fatigued when you listen to HD650. I've owned K701, Grado RS-1, RS-2, HF1, SR225, AT W5000, Sony SA5000 and other stuff considered great for rock music. 90% of music I listen to is rock/metal music and still here I am with HD650. What can I say.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by epaludo /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Have you listen to Grados before?
If not that's why you like those for rock/metal ...



Grados aren't a shortcut to happiness. Generally, they're said to be the best rock headphones but that's not the case for all people.
 
Mar 19, 2008 at 10:52 PM Post #32 of 47

tomb

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Patu /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Good impressions really.

I'm not sure if you told this earlier in this thread (sorry if I missed), but what equipment did you use for the audition? Which CD-player and amplifier? With K701 and HD650, those two will make huge differences. This has been said millions of times but I'll say it again. If a headphone is driven with wrong equipment, the result will be very unsatisfying. HD650 needs speed, details and clarity from the rest of equipment chain when for K701, I'd choose something to tame the harsh high end and give some warmth and smoothness to the sound.</snip>



Agreed. This quote from the OP is particular interesting:
"The big shock for me was the dull sound of the double bass drumming on the Senns. It was like "Brooooom" with fast little hits in it, I don't know how to really describe it. (at least not in English^^)
With the AKG's every single hit on the bass drum had a beginning and an end so it was once again more dynamic...I hope you get it as I don't know how to put it. "


That's almost a classic symptom of not enough voltage slew rate in the amp for the Senns. My intent is not to be critical of either one, though - they both have demanding requirements. The AKG's need an amp with plenty of current and slam, while the Senns need something very fast with large voltage swings. The problem is that it's very seldom that an amp design is good at doing both.
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Mar 20, 2008 at 12:47 PM Post #33 of 47

Kataklystik

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Patu /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I'm not sure if you told this earlier in this thread (sorry if I missed), but what equipment did you use for the audition? Which CD-player and amplifier? With K701 and HD650, those two will make huge differences.


To be honest I can't remember what I used for the audition as it was quite some time ago but I think it was some kind of Marantz CDP and a studio headphone amp with 2 or 4 outputs. All I can remember is that the sound (from both of the headphones) was a revelation.
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Recently I had a friend come over and I listened to his HD650 from my amp and I really liked the sound, through the DV332 they are really powerful and they sound good with rock and metal. I also have listened to a HD580(defoamed, hd650 cable) and the impression was similar (however less bass from what I remember).

I guess someday (= when I have some 250€ left
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) I'll get either HD600 or HD650 because I think that the Senns and the AKGs actually complement each other quite well.

I'm happy with my decision that I took the K701 over the HD650. For me they are much more comfortable and they sound better to me on most of the music I listen to. I think if I had to listen to all of my music through HD650 this would be too much bass for me. I mean, I like bass but not too much of it. It's nice to have Hd650-bass on some songs but for example a nu-tango song with HD650 sounds too bassy for me.

The friend with the HD650, who got a K701 a few days ago says that to him the AKGs sound better on "real" music but he prefers the HD650 for electronica (he listens mostly to that kind of music) and I have to agree with him. Artificial effects sound better with the HD650 and I think this is because of the big bass as well.
 
Mar 20, 2008 at 1:12 PM Post #34 of 47

Kataklystik

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Quote:

Originally Posted by tomb /img/forum/go_quote.gif
The problem is that it's very seldom that an amp design is good at doing both.
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I think that the Darkvoice actually does a good job driving both headphones, it really has more than enough power and everything sounds very dynamic and well balanced.

BTW I don't know why but out of the DV332 the HD650 is actually a little bit louder than the K701. I don't know how that can because the HD650 has much higher impedance (62 vs. 300Ω) AND even a litte bit less sensitivity(105 vs.103dB/mW).
Anyone can explain to me how this can happen?
 
Mar 20, 2008 at 2:16 PM Post #35 of 47

tomb

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Kataklystik /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I think that the Darkvoice actually does a good job driving both headphones, it really has more than enough power and everything sounds very dynamic and well balanced.

BTW I don't know why but out of the DV332 the HD650 is actually a little bit louder than the K701. I don't know how that can because the HD650 has much higher impedance (62 vs. 300Ω) AND even a litte bit less sensitivity(105 vs.103dB/mW).
Anyone can explain to me how this can happen?



It may seem like the Darkvoice drives both types of headphones equally, because the driver tube can supply quite a bit of current - up to 125ma, I believe (I'm not expert on the DarkVoice). However, that same driver tube can swing up to 100V in either direction. At the same time, gain from the tube is often dependent on the impedance of the load - high impedance loads will result in more gain from the tube. That favors delivering voltage rather than current.

Both headphones are asking for power from the amp. The amp supplies that power in a combination of voltage and current, depending on how the amp is designed. While neither headphone is going to clip with the kind of voltage the Darkvoice delivers, it's quite possible that it's easier for the Senns to get more voltage than it is for the AKG's to get more current.

Granted, this is all conjecture based on general operating principles of tubes. We'd have to see the actual circuit schematic and parts values to make a real determination. Nevertheless, that may be why the Senns ended up sounding louder at the same volume position.

EDIT: Keep in mind that I'm not making a definitive statement of preference either way. I happen to have Senns, but I hope to get the K701's one day, too.
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Mar 21, 2008 at 3:20 PM Post #40 of 47

JC_Denton

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I love my AKG K701s.

I am a fan of "pure" musical experience, I like the warmth of a deep bass, but I would never want it to be "amped" in order to sound more "impressive".

That is the main reason why, I didn't buy the 650s. Aiming at the bassheads, I heard and turned my head away. I want pure music, even if I listen to psy-trance, I don't want any "bass amplification".

And that is exactly what I get from my AKGs. I haven't even amped them yet, my only source is the Auzentech X-Fi Prelude I have.

What can I say? Just listen to the purity and clarity of the bass from Infected Mushroom tracks. I didn't believe I could listen the things that normally are heard only by Martin Logann Descent class subs.

The only thing that is missing is the kick in your stomach.

I can't describe how clear and perfect positioned classic music sounds - just unbelievable. I listen to Karajan's New Year's Eve DVD (1987 I think) and it's like imagining I am standing next to him.

Rock/Metal sound clear, but I really must work a bit more on the fine tuning of the EQ. Some tracks sound absolutely great, some don't. Just experimenting at the moment with the settings Windows offer me :/
 
Mar 22, 2008 at 7:41 AM Post #41 of 47

Wilashort

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Bah!, what stupidity... this test. It partiality/bias in favor of the senneiser 595
And where is the other test/equipment with the DT990...?
Quote:

Originally Posted by HiFiRE /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I wrote this up a while back but never got around to posting it. It's pro k701 for rock so it's sorta suitable.


 
Mar 22, 2008 at 9:48 AM Post #42 of 47

donunus

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I hated the dt990 2005 too. The only problem with this review thats a little uninspiring is the fact that the 595s win in a lot of places. They were good cans but were blown away by my ad2000s
 
Mar 22, 2008 at 1:33 PM Post #43 of 47

ricmat

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Well, I have a pair ok K701 myself and sure, I love them! but IMHO they are not the ones I use for those kind of music! I prefer my Beyer DT880 '03, but what I really love is my SR325! those really shine!

I guess it will depend a lot on what amp you put feeding them and (more discussable) the break-in period... - I'll assume here you heard new HP.

(on the other hand, HD 580 / HD6** are great for almost every kind of music you put on them... they only have a different sound signature! I guess in the future you will miss that sound signature too, but that's just way it evolves!
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)

Anyway, I think you should give a chance to Grados...



and this is also some effect you should have in mind:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dept_of_Alchemy /img/forum/go_quote.gif
The K701 could just have been louder than the 650 in this comparo...



this is very important, because it influences the way one heard frequencies curves!
 
Mar 22, 2008 at 3:18 PM Post #44 of 47

Wilashort

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What Ironic, and you are asking about this headphone in another thread. Because you dislike (and not, you hated) your ex DT990 2005 32 ohm... in end. Well i respect you decision, but say that this headphone has empty bass and is lifeless (and other contemptuous things that doesn't are) ha, is stupid; period.
Quote:

Originally Posted by donunus /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I hated the dt990 2005 too. The only problem with this review thats a little uninspiring is the fact that the 595s win in a lot of places. They were good cans but were blown away by my ad2000s


 
Mar 22, 2008 at 4:49 PM Post #45 of 47

scompton

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Kataklystik /img/forum/go_quote.gif
No it was an amp with two headphone outs and there were volume controls for both of them and I adjusted them to the same level.


If you mean you set the volume knob at the same place, the K701 was louder. I find it very hard to set equal volume by ear unless I'm listening to a single tone. I doubt if I'm any good then, but I get closer than when I'm listening to music.

I have neither of these, but I have further down the line in both brands - HD580, K601, K400, K401, K500. I don't have much interest in the K650 because I like AKG sound much better.

To tell the truth, I'm not interested in either until I upgrade my amps
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