[purlepen]

Hi, I am in the process of making music in my living room sound nice. I guess I bought my speakers. what do I do now though? I understand I need an amp and a subwoofer (correct me if I'm wrong)? anything specific I should be looking for? or do I just buy anything I can afford?
 
I really don't know where to start, all the guides seem to be 5 pages long+ and I lose my interest after reading the first paragraph about the technicalities of stuff I really could care less about learning for the time being. sorry if I seem lazy, I promise to read it if I ever upgrade, but as for my entry level, please help me.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Well, without any specifics, I'd say get an amplifier with a subwoofer output, and if not a USB input also so you can simplify the entire system. The NAD D3020 has both. After that just get whatever sub you can get on a bargain as long as it's a decent 8in or 10in sub (for a relatively low price).

 

After that you're going to have to start learning a little bit because you can't just hook these up and expect it to sound right, especially because you're adding a sub which adds its integration with the main speakers as a potential problem. Too much gain on the sub as well as too high crossover settings and it will overwhelm the mains, if not also sound like molasses.

 

[purlepen]

hey thanks for the response. The amp you're suggesting is a bit pricey, 
 
so I am checking the classifieds, help me out here with a bit of questions:
 
lots of "vintage" equipments.. what year+ should I be looking to buy my gear from?
 
 
also are receivers the same thing as amps? 
 
also would there be a specific feature in the amp to host my speakers, or does any work? because I was talking to this salesman at an audiophile speakers place and he was telling me how you need specific stuff for specific things or things will blow. I really didn't get most of what he said, he might have been just trying to sell me whatever it is he was trying to sell me, but any truth to it? would I require a certain type of amp for my speakers or a combination of speakers or something? 
 
 
you said something about the sub complicating things. I read that the sub is responsible for 1/5 of the sound on Reddit, that's why I thought I need one, I don't exactly listen to bassy music or anything though, so if it is unnecessary I can drop it.
 
 
Thanks again 

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Originally Posted by purlepen /img/forum/go_quote.gif

The amp you're suggesting is a bit pricey, 

 

Well, that's why I said "without specifics" - you didn't mention how much you can spend. So, up to how much can you throw at this? 

 

That said the main reason why I suggested it is because it will make everything convenient. Hook up a computer via USB, hook up a sub via its dedicated subwoofer output. It will make everything a lot easier. Other amps within its size don't have any outputs to hook up a subwoofer, and larger amps typically need to use the tape loop output to feed a sub, the problem there being that the preamp (the circuit built around the volume control knob) does not work through the tape loop, so everytime you adjust the main volume, you have to reach for the subwoofer gain control. With a dedicated subwoofer preamped output you can set the sub to a gain level that you like and then the signal going into it increases or decreases in voltage as you adjust the preamp.

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by purlepen /img/forum/go_quote.gif

 

you said something about the sub complicating things. I read that the sub is responsible for 1/5 of the sound on Reddit, that's why I thought I need one, I don't exactly listen to bassy music or anything though, so if it is unnecessary I can drop it.

 

Well, for starters, there's how to send a signal to it and how to control the volume (like in the paragraph I wrote just above this). Then short of using an A/V receiver which has its own crossover (trims frequencies below or above a certain frequency, so whatever you're using will get only the frequencies that it is designed to play) you need to use a subwoofer that has its own. Most have them but be aware that there are some that don't.

 

And then you have to figure out how to use it. Too high crossover, and you get an overlap between the mains and the sub; conversely, you can put a gap. On the other hand it's not necessarily a clean karate chop in terms of where they stop, since crossovers only attenuate or trim the loudness of the frequencies above or below it, so even if you set the sub to 70hz and below depending on the slope it may still just be at -6dB at 105hz for example, which is still well within what the Energy speakers can do. 

 

And then there's placement. Put it in a corner and it will reinforce the bass, but it may do so to the point that it may sound like bubbling molasses, or pull the bass towards that direction (especially since the 5in speakers in the Energys aren't capable of going very low) so it will sound like the drummer has a 6ft long leg kicking a bass drum off to one side.

 

Basically a sub should be there to fill in where your mains can't go, but it shouldn't screw up with too much bass that upsets the balance of the response as well as the imaging of the speakers.

 

Now, as much as I'm a fan of not using a subwoofer just to keep everything simpler (unless I have a dedicated subwoofer output from a receiver), the thing is you're using small monitors that have their -3dB point too high to produce any real bass from farther than nearfield (ie 1m or less, roughly, like with pro audio monitors in a studio, or how these or similar designs are used on a computer even without recording/mastering being done). Chances are your bass drum will sound like a snare drum if you're not close to the speakers so if you listen to music that has at least as much bass drum action as on some (vintage) rock tracks, it's not going to sound right. Of course, you can try it at home first, but then if you're adding a subwoofer you might as well get an amplifier that has a subwoofer output, or at least there is an external connection between its preamp section and its amplifier section, this way you can install a Y-adapter there and then use that on the subwoofer. Or at least, a subwoofer that can take a stereo input from the preamp section, then back out to the amp section of the amplifier if it uses a pass-through.

 

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by purlepen /img/forum/go_quote.gif

 

so I am checking the classifieds, help me out here with a bit of questions:

 

lots of "vintage" equipment.. what year+ should I be looking to buy my gear from?

 

 

The years shouldn't really matter, it depends more on the particular equipment. Although I would generally avoid mainstream brands' products in the 1990s and 2000s, the British brands during that period made good stuff - a lot better than most Japanese and American products. Most, not all, of course.

 

One problem with vintage gear is the size and weight. Even if you had the space at home, the shipping costs could be enough to get you a modern amp - and then you have to spend that much twice over if it breaks and you have it repaired. Basically, what I'm saying is that vintage gear are not as cheap as they look.

 

One used gear I'd recommend for your needs though is the NuForce Icon or Icon II. It's a lot like the NAD D3020 for a lot less - USB input (although only 16bit/44.1khz, but really it doesn't matter all that much save for compatibility with various source units), and more importantly a subwoofer output.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by purlepen /img/forum/go_quote.gif

 

also are receivers the same thing as amps? 

 

 

Not quite. When one says "amplifier" it can mean one of two things - a pure power amplifier which at best has a gain control, or an integrated amplifier which has a preamp stage. A receiver is basically an integrated amp with one other feature: traditionally that would be a radio tuner, but nowadays it would be a digital input and processing section. 2ch receivers have a DAC so you use digital transmission into it (and shortening the path that the analogue signal will travel through); modern units have a simpler DSP or at least a simple crossover filter to run a subwoofer output. Surround/HT receivers also have a DSP but it's a lot more complex - it can for example split the signal between the subwoofer and the other speakers, and better unit have auto-calibration that you use with the included mic so if necessary it can run time delays to the video output and the amp output to the speakers in order to sync with the subwoofer.

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by purlepen /img/forum/go_quote.gif

 

also would there be a specific feature in the amp to host my speakers, or does any work? because I was talking to this salesman at an audiophile speakers place and he was telling me how you need specific stuff for specific things or things will blow. I really didn't get most of what he said, he might have been just trying to sell me whatever it is he was trying to sell me, but any truth to it? would I require a certain type of amp for my speakers or a combination of speakers or something? 

 

That's not a problem for receivers vs amps, unless you're comparing a regular receiver that can at most run 6ohm speakers to an amplifier that can run 4ohm speakers, and you actually are using 4ohm speakers (like some Dynaudios). Apart from that this is more of a problem with clipping - amp with too low undistorted output will clip sooner, and if you need a lot of power to get to your listening level, then you get distorted sound and also you're always closer to the amp's limits, resulting in clipping. At the same time you can't just run a 2ch amp with subwoofers much less use a dedicated subwoofer amp to run speakers - the latter generally have high output, high distortion but don't clip easily (it's just that the harmonic distortion isn't noticeable if it's just running a sub playing bass freqs), while a regular amp may not have enough power, or in some cases dedicated amps can be bridged to run mono but you have to watch what the nominal and minimum impedance of the subwoofer is as it runs only higher impedance loads when bridged. 

 

[cel4145]

You mentioned in your other thread that your leftover budget after speakers would be $100 CAD.

I would look for a used Onkyo, Yamaha, Denon, Pioneer, or Harman Kardon audio/video receiver. That might be enough for one. Then wait on the sub for on down the road when you can afford to add one.

As for "vintage" receivers, well usually those are 25 years old or more. They may need refurbishing, and then vintage receivers have become somewhat of a collector's item these days. More recent audio/video receivers like the ones mentioned above are likely to be a more affordable.

 

[purlepen]

 

 

Well, that's why I said "without specifics" - you didn't mention how much you can spend. So, up to how much can you throw at this? 

 

I was thinking since I got my speakers for 100$ I can spend say up to 150$ on an amp and then maybe 50 more on a sub. but I see here on amazon a very ugly color amp but it is one of the ones you suggested http://www.amazon.ca/gp/offer-listing/B0048FUC4W/ref=dp_olp_new?ie=UTF8&condition=new and it's for 200 cad .. do you think I should go with buying that? or keep digging for higher value used amp? 

 

[cel4145]

$50 buys you a crap sub. A sub is a big driver in a box enclosure with it's own amp. Not cheap to make.

Topping makes similar miniature desktop amps for less. A used stereo or audio/video receiver would be better if you can find an Onkyo, Pioneer, Yamaha, Denon, Marantz, or Harman Kardon.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Quote:

Originally Posted by purlepen /img/forum/go_quote.gif

I was thinking since I got my speakers for 100$ I can spend say up to 150$ on an amp and then maybe 50 more on a sub. 

 

I wouldn't use a $50 subwoofer. That's a cheap sub driver in a cheap enclosure (thin wood panels, for one) driven by a cheap amp. As much as a $25 T-amp in a plastic case can do really well with high sensitivity speakers, I have not encountered a <$100 powered subwoofer that can offer the same value.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by purlepen /img/forum/go_quote.gif

but I see here on amazon a very ugly color amp but it is one of the ones you suggested http://www.amazon.ca/gp/offer-listing/B0048FUC4W/ref=dp_olp_new?ie=UTF8&condition=new and it's for 200 cad .. do you think I should go with buying that? or keep digging for higher value used amp? 

 

I'd keep shopping instead of rushing into it, but of course mind what I say about the oft-recommended vintage amps when it comes to shipping costs (of course, if you don't mind the size and can get a good one for local pick up instead of $70 shipping, then go ahead).

 

[purlepen]

Hey guys, I am looking at a 240 CAD deal that includes "JVC 500 Watt 5.1 AVR with Phono Input Rx-770V" + "Energy 8" 200 Watt Active Subwoofer ESW-8" to match my CB 10's. I am not sure if it's a good deal or not, what do you guys think? that should include the delivery (it's a local purchase) 

 

[purlepen]

hey guys, should I make the purchase? I can't find the price tag on what those things through a google search to tell whether or not I am getting a good deal.

 

[cel4145]

I'd say the Energy ESW-8 is worth maybe $50 to $75 USD used given that Pioneer has essentially the same sub that often goes on sale for close to $100. The JVC Rx-770V? JVC was never exactly known for making high end receivers. I'd probably pay no more than $75 for it since patience would probably bring me a Yamaha, Onkyo, or Harman Kardon for around the same price or a little more.

But I have no idea of the value of used equipment where you are.

 

[purlepen]

hey thanks for the response, yeah I felt like the guy was over-charging it a bit, given that he has 204 items for sale. 

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Quote:

Originally Posted by purlepen /img/forum/go_quote.gif

Hey guys, I am looking at a 240 CAD deal that includes "JVC 500 Watt 5.1 AVR with Phono Input Rx-770V" + "Energy 8" 200 Watt Active Subwoofer ESW-8" to match my CB 10's. I am not sure if it's a good deal or not, what do you guys think? that should include the delivery (it's a local purchase) 

 

You can do better with a bit more money. That's an old receiver that's almost 20 years old so there's a risk that something can break at any point (it'll be a gamble on how soon that happens), so unless you can diagnose and repair it, it might be expensive to fix. You can look up late model Yamaha receivers (or other brands), some of them use digital inputs and have dedicated subwoofer outputs now. If anything the problem is the size, compared to something like the NAD D3020.

 

 

[cel4145]

Yeah. If you want to take a chance on an old receiver, I'd consider this Rotel: http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649219988-rotel-rx-950ax/. Rotel is very good equipment.

 

[purlepen]

Yeah. If you want to take a chance on an old receiver, I'd consider this Rotel: http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649219988-rotel-rx-950ax/. Rotel is very good equipment.

I am trying to save money I am not sure what to search. there are 208 http://www.kijiji.ca/b-electronics/ottawa/amp/k0c15l1700185 results in my city, and I really can't tell what I am looking at/reading when I do. So it's hard to know whether or not I am looking at a good deal. it hurts that I am still using my laptop's speakers to play my music! hurts!