Job offer but moral dilemma... what say you Head-fi?
Mar 12, 2007 at 7:27 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 45

wakeride74

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So I went to a fraud conference Thurs and Fri and ran into the fraud manager of my wife's company. I've met him before when I did a informational interview about 3 years ago. I ended up having drinks and dinner with him and his wife and he kinda offered me a job. He said they have an investigator position opening. This is a new position created as a result of too much work not enough investigators. They never have turn over and were rated in the top 5 of companies to work for in the Bay Area.

Here's the complication - The company I work for has paid for me to go to a couple of fraud conferences and is also paying for me to become a certified fraud examiner. All in all we're talking around $5k... not huge but still. My boss and co-worker are very cool and this would put them both in a tough spot and I do feel bad about the investment that has been made in me, I don't want to disrespect that. The company I work for now was purchased about a year ago and has had two rounds of lay-offs since. It looks like you could flip a coin on the stability here so one could argue either side of that. The offer with the new company would be a 2 mile commute (vs. 23 mile or 45 minute I have now), a $16k per year increase and the chance to work up to their senior level which would be a $30k increase. I probably wouldn't even see my wife at work (for those of you concerned about that) as the two departments are on different floors and never work together. Regardless, we never fight so this is not something that I'm even weighing here.

What say you? I'm going in for the interview Friday and am leaning towards accepting if it sounds as good as it looks but how do I handle things here, what's the best to keep this bridge from going up in flames and getting people who's professional relationships I value pissed at me?
 
Mar 12, 2007 at 7:40 PM Post #2 of 45

aluren

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I would definitely jump at the better opportunity. In this case the offer, since you live closer and you get a pay increase. If you really feel morally obligated about the training courses that they've paid, then go ahead and pay the company back... and regarding burning the bridges, maybe you can let your manager know and set up a good time for you to leave so that you can at least finish up the work... i mean if they are professionals, they should easily understand and not get upset at you jumping at an opportunity...
 
Mar 12, 2007 at 7:47 PM Post #3 of 45

gratefulshrink

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I have a few questions/clarifications. Did your current company already lay out the 5K to train you and send you to conferences, or is that still in the future? If so, maybe you could postpone somewhat, so they aren't paying so much on your behalf.

Second, how likely is it that your current boss or co-worker know your new potential boss?

Regardless of the above, I see absolutely no ethical problem (yet) in your having a follow-up interview with the new people, and trying to get something in writing. While they are preparing that, you might tell your current boss that you are starting to think about working somewhere closer to where you live, or at least about the possibility of a pay increase. Make up some convincing reason.
 
Mar 12, 2007 at 7:57 PM Post #5 of 45

laxx

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I agree with Aluren. You can't hold yourself back because you feel bad. When I read your thread title, I was expecting something totally different. Your employers should understand that it's a great opportunity for you and if they value you enough and can afford to match the other company, then you can forget about your moral dilemna since you can just stay at your current company. It's a significant enough pay increase that you can't ignore it. =T
 
Mar 12, 2007 at 8:00 PM Post #6 of 45

wakeride74

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They have already paid the money... the first conference I went to was Feb 2005 and then I just went to one last week. The CFE cost was taken care of last month and is not transferable but I could probably offer to pay some of it back. I seriously doubt the bosses would know each other... one is "Fraud" and one is "Privacy".

I would wager that most logical people would understand my reasoning for the change but the timing does not work to my favor since these recent expenses were so... well... recent. The up-side is just too much for me to ignore.
 
Mar 12, 2007 at 8:08 PM Post #7 of 45

Pm@c

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Man I wouldnt even be asking this, I would be jumping at this opportunity the minute it presented itself. If your current company has "lay-off" issues, i would leave right now before you regret staying there. Too bad that they spent that money on you, if they are having issues with their own company they shouldnt be making investments like that.
 
Mar 12, 2007 at 8:09 PM Post #8 of 45

Welly Wu

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Take the job offer if it is genuine. Period. Your loyalty is commendable and it will be best served in a new company that can reward you in commensurate measure(s). Not to sound crass, but do you realize how many more weapons and hi-fi components an extra $30K can buy?
very_evil_smiley.gif
 
Mar 12, 2007 at 8:12 PM Post #9 of 45

Jahn

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that's not an ethical concern as far as i'm concerned. networking is what you do at conferences. your current job sent you there, it led to a career opportunity, and you'll advance. they should be happy for you. there is no more loyalty in business, either from the boss end or the employee end. find the job that's right for you - your old workplace will find someone right for them pretty soon. after all, someone should fill in quick, since it was a job you were willing to take previously, wasn't it? they won't be left wanting. and if they are...all the more reason why that was a dead-end job and it was smart of you to head for the hills.
 
Mar 12, 2007 at 8:14 PM Post #11 of 45

MontanaJustin

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I have to agree with the other posts - loyalty is both commendable and honorable, but it's not like you set out to scam your present company. And in the American job market, people move from company to company, oftentimes as the only viable means of securing a raise or increased responsibility.
I'd say you've found yourself in a great position, and as long as you are a decent human being about how/when you quit your old job, than you've got nothing to hide or feel about.
 
Mar 12, 2007 at 8:16 PM Post #12 of 45

MontanaJustin

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feel BAD about, that is.
 
Mar 12, 2007 at 8:20 PM Post #13 of 45

kramer5150

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My thoughts...

Bay area job-hopping is a way of life. Even in economic slowdowns, the opportunities here are everywhere. Your current employer understands this (unless they are completely clueless). Thats always a risk when allocating the training budget... the risk that you have just trained someone elses employee if they decide to leave.

I say take the job. Be PC about it, set a scheduled date when you can complete your open projects and train your replacement. Basically you don't want to leave them hanging on any open critical items. Thats all you can do really.

The other way to look at it, is someone else sees you as an asset. They want you as part of their organization, and is willing to pay you more. IE, your current employer is under-paying you. The current employer is getting more production out of you than what they are paying for, so you're actually been doing them a favor (in a certain regard).

The other aspect you have to weigh is the culture of the other company. How is their management style?, do their employees practice the "code of business conduct" policies?
 
Mar 12, 2007 at 8:23 PM Post #14 of 45

RYCeT

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Well, as long as you give your old boss enough time before moving to your new job, I don't see any problem with it. If you feel bad, you can offer them to pay some or all of the training fees.
 
Mar 12, 2007 at 8:25 PM Post #15 of 45

wakeride74

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You all pretty much sum up how I feel... my loyalty is not so much to the company but the people this will affect... my boss and co-worker. They are both great and I just don't want to burn them or put them in a bad spot but again this is too good to pass up. I think I'd probably try and give a longer notice... maybe 3-4 weeks if the new job will allow so the transition will be easier. Finding fraud investigators is not the easiest thing... it's a specialized field and people with experience in financial crimes are far fewer than say underwriters or something.

Although there have been lay-offs things could go either way... I could have more people under me over the next year and be big stuff or I could be without a job. Something I'd rather not throw the dice on given this opportunity.
 

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