[Duncan]

So you're saying that I should trust measurements from a less than perfect mechanism more than what I can hear?

That'd put quite a few people's noses out of joint

 

[shotgunshane]

So you're saying that I should trust measurements from a less than perfect mechanism more than what I can hear?

That'd put quite a few people's noses out of joint

For what sounds good? Absolutely not.

For what is marketed as a 2.5k mastering tool? Well define what makes a proper mastering tool. Measurements are usually involved in that discussion.

For what is objectively flat frequency response? Yes.

The only less than perfect mechanism is us humans

 

[Duncan]

Very true, the amount of times I've thought the IEMs I was using at the time were 'it' - it is very easy to fool yourself (whether subconsciously, or by following the herd type mentality)...

Nonetheless, I like what I hear with these, and - even if it turns out the FR of these is more like a mountain range than a ruler, that won't change my opinion until something better comes along...

...Just wish I could work the treble out, complys are a smidge too dark, and silicons are a smidge too bright...

Grr!!

 

[shotgunshane]

Very true, the amount of times I've thought the IEMs I was using at the time were 'it' - it is very easy to fool yourself (whether subconsciously, or by following the herd type mentality)...

Nonetheless, I like what I hear with these, and - even if it turns out the FR of these is more like a mountain range than a ruler, that won't change my opinion until something better comes along...

...Just wish I could work the treble out, complys are a smidge too dark, and silicons are a smidge too bright...

Grr!!

Absolutely. I find mood or what's going on in life can affect what sounds good.

Yeah, FR shouldn't change your mind if you like something. Might perhaps help you better understand why you like what you like.

Have you tried TS comply?

 

[Duncan]

Absolutely. I find mood or what's going on in life can affect what sounds good.

Yeah, FR shouldn't change your mind if you like something. Might perhaps help you better understand why you like what you like.

Have you tried TS comply?

Hmm... I've used the TSX, and they were okay, but - with that wax guard, pushed the Laylas out of my ears a little more than I'd like...

Not thought about the TS - but, yes - see that these are the TSX without the wax-guard... might have to give them a go, thanks

 

[Audiowood]

   
It was the IEM, mic and a bit of electrical tape to cover/hold them together. Again, I was looking at the output SPL's of each frequency relative to the others for anomalies. Then a quick listen with my ears. I wasn't looking for accuracy here, but a precision that would allow me to compare frequency ranges to each other to look for large (ish) anomalies in the range tested.
 
I've seen measurement systems done both ways and the "free" measurements without a dummy head (ear canal substitute) are usually more repeatable with less "swings" due to placement. Again this is just a rough test I perform along with listening to them to see if they correlate...which they did.
 
That said, I'm always curious to see how they measure in "proper" setups.

 
Ok thanks, this is what I am looking for, I was wondering how to stick that IEM to the mic without causing some frequency being absorb in the material used. I will try and sweep my Angie and I suspect it will not be flat as the Angie vocal is pretty forward.

 

[MacedonianHero]

   
You might have the only 'mastering grade' Layla in production! 
 
As I said, measurements will come sooner or later and that will clarify everything beyond any 'claims' or ability to hear and judge of anyone. Can't wait for them to come out, TBH. There's not so much talk anymore about the 'studio grade' AKG 812

 
Yeah I seriously doubt it. 
 
FWIW, I never thought the K812s were ever "studio grade". Can I ask you what you consider a studio grade headphone/IEM to be? Just curious where you're coming from? Plus, the vast majority of folks who buy headphones/IEMs in this price range are most likely audiophiles and couldn't care less about the "studio" moniker.
 
Check out Jude's comments on them too. His favourite IEMs (even over his customs).

 

[MacedonianHero]

So you're saying that I should trust measurements from a less than perfect mechanism more than what I can hear?

That'd put quite a few people's noses out of joint

 
Not at all. My point was someone made a claim of frequency dips that simply were not there when I listened to the pair I had (and my rudimentary measurements seemed to back up). That's all. My measurements were just to help me understand what I was hearing. I don't think anyone should ever just depend on measurements. There's so much more that isn't measured. Have you heard them? I suggest you give them a try. For me there are truly a game changing IEM. I understand the price tag is gonna turn off a lot of people, but IMO, they are the real deal. I prefer them overall to many full sized TOTL headphones. Never thought I'd see an IEM that did that.

 

[Duncan]

Have you heard them?

I have the A&K version, yes

 

[MacedonianHero]

I have the A&K version, yes

 
With my ears, I can get a very even response with the stock tips + setting the bass to about noon-ish. Keep playing with the tips...it's well worth it!

 

[tumburu]

   
Yeah I seriously doubt it. 
 
FWIW, I never thought the K812s were ever "studio grade". Can I ask you what you consider a studio grade headphone/IEM to be? Just curious where you're coming from? Plus, the vast majority of folks who buy headphones/IEMs in this price range are most likely audiophiles and couldn't care less about the "studio" moniker.
 
Check out Jude's comments on them too. His favourite IEMs (even over his customs).

 
They were advertised like that, like the Layla is as being mastering grade. I didn't encountered yet a headphone that can be called that (although the HD800, with a touch of eq can be very good), but, being one of those who are waiting for such a thing to appear I was interested in both these models. Fortunately the measurements for the 812 appeared pretty quickly, but for the Layla they didn't, so I had to buy blindly, also because, I have to admit, I'm more attracted to IEMs than to full sized HPs. It wasn't the smartest move, but I had (too) high hopes, thinking, if those guys are in their right mind, they know it would be stupid to advertise a listening tool to be that if it's not. 
 
And yes, I read everything there is on this site about them and most of my comments in our discussions are related only to what I found to be different from what I read. Maybe you misunderstood my position, because I insisted to point out the things that are not in line with my findings, but besides that, I have to admit that (unfortunately), Layla is still the best IEM I've heard to date.
 
Regarding your question; I'm coming from professional monitoring systems, not headphones in particular, although I'm very much into them because they have a huge potential. And my position is related to that, since there are no 'mastering' headphones, only mastering speakers, at least at this point. From this point of view Layla is a joke. A bad and an expensive one. Anyway, I did eq-ed them, as I do with all my headphones, and they sound stunning at this point, but unfortunately that's due to a lot of time I had to invest into that, and not because the (arrogant IMO) claims of JHA. Oh, and the build quality is also so-so. Maybe, and now I'm beginning to think that was the true goal behind their marketing strategy, these are not aimed at professionals, but exactly, as you pointed out, at audiophiles who will think they are buying mastering grade stuff.
 
Besides that, I surely don't need to read anything to understand what I'm hearing. I'm pretty good at that and, if that matters, I'm the only audio engineer from my country with productions nominated to the Grammies and with two other productions that made their way up into the American Billboard (one of them even reached no1 on its section). So maybe I have an idea what I'm talking about and, as a customer, I feel entitled to question the quality of what was sold to me.
 
Cheers.

 

[MacedonianHero]

   
..... I didn't encountered yet a headphone that can be called that (although the HD800, with a touch of eq can be very ....

Gotcha.

 
 
I love the HD800s; I've had them for more than 5 years and still enjoy them quite a bit. 
 
FWIW, I know long time recording engineer on Head-Fi who swears by the K702. 

 

 

[tumburu]

   
FWIW, I know long time recording engineer on Head-Fi who swears by the K702. 

 
And your point is?

 

[MacedonianHero]

   
And your point is?

 
Just what was stated. 

 

[speedracer1]

General comment:
 
I really wish more people would honestly give the Layla's the listen they truly deserve!  I guess the price point, perceived notions with the physical size, odd tuning and issues at times with quality control is arguably why the Layla thread seems so quite. But like so many other high end "esoteric" pieces of audio gear it is on the "edge". Layla pushes the limits of the technology, price and performance and ultimately advances the field by improving the sound for the better and promotes our hobby and passion of audio!  
 
All said and hands down they are the best pair of IEM's I've hear to date.  I'm loving them every day.  The sound stage is amazing, the accuracy of pitch, tone timber and attack and the general musically of these IEM's are just really amazing.  I have them in my ears a minimum of 4 hours per day 5 days a week for a minimum of two hours intervals.  They are never difficult for me to keep on and they are very easy to get on and off very quickly and stay firmly planted in your ears. 
-Speed