[MaxwellDemon]

Totally agree w dallan.
 
Just got my 16s two days ago. Left ear fits fine, struggled a bit w the right ear. Fit was tight which hurts when inserting and extracting. Less problem with afternoon and evening listening as ears expand a bit.
 
As of now, the fit is good enough, but I'm debating if it's worth the hassle and cost of remolding and posting back to FL from Asia for a re-fit. It could come back worse (?)....worth giving it a few more days for my ears to adjust.
 
On another note:- I wonder if JHA (or any other very high-end iem makers) would ever introduce universal 13/16s (like their demos)?
 
There would be a good market for them at, say 20%-30%, discount to the custom......just a thought.
 
Quote:

I don't know that everyone can get a fit that disappears.  I had two different impressions and several refits but it seems the closer to a good impression without a refit the better.  On my last impression it was from Jerry's main audiologist in LA and the only thing i changed was the length of the stems.  The fit is "good enough".  They disappears at times but not most of the time.  Many people have gone thru numerous refits, some have ended up just selling them others have ended frustrated, settling for as close as they can get.  People should be aware that not everyone can get that disappear perfect fit, I sure couldn't and I spent hundreds of dollars on shipping back and forth and two audiologist fees.  I have the 13's, took me about four or five months with those costs, i do like them a lot now that it is over but i don't know if knowing what i do now I would do it again, probably not.  It is a long and expensive road for many however i am aware that some are lucky enough to get it perfect the first shot.  Be happy that you didn't have to end up with "good enough".

Hey! You are from Fragrant Harbor too! On that note, I'd send it back... though maybe a reconsideration after a few days is a good idea. By the way, did you deal directly with JHAudio, or did you handled it through one of the dealers here?

 

[Yale]

MaxwellDemon:
 
I dealt with Jaben locally. 
Net, net price was about the same as going direct but without the post-office/audiologist trips.
 
 
Quote:

A[quote name="Yale" url="/forum/thread/479434/jh-audio-jh16-pro-first-impressions/1875#post_7108612"]
Totally agree w dallan.
 
Just got my 16s two days ago. Left ear fits fine, struggled a bit w the right ear. Fit was tight which hurts when inserting and extracting. Less problem with afternoon and evening listening as ears expand a bit.
 
As of now, the fit is good enough, but I'm debating if it's worth the hassle and cost of remolding and posting back to FL from Asia for a re-fit. It could come back worse (?)....worth giving it a few more days for my ears to adjust.
 
On another note:- I wonder if JHA (or any other very high-end iem makers) would ever introduce universal 13/16s (like their demos)?
 
There would be a good market for them at, say 20%-30%, discount to the custom......just a thought.
 

Hey! You are from Fragrant Harbor too! On that note, I'd send it back... though maybe a reconsideration after a few days is a good idea. By the way, did you deal directly with JHAudio, or did you handled it through one of the dealers here?[/quote]

 

[phosphorique]

I had issues with the right side of my JH16's too. Went to Jaben many many many times(i cant remember how many)... Sent it in for 3 times already and it has improved in terms of comfort but noise isolation is still equally poor. The left side unit is almost perfect(no issues at all) but right side is giving me lotsa problems. It seems like the RIGHT SIDE is the one that is always the one giving problems. Can anyone suggest a reasonable explanation to the cause?
 
I have not been able to deduce a logical explanation for it.. Not unless I am sponsored a trip down to the lab in Orlando to take a good look to find out once and for all.. And for the better of all JHAudio customers!
 
Quote:

Totally agree w dallan.
 
Just got my 16s two days ago. Left ear fits fine, struggled a bit w the right ear. Fit was tight which hurts when inserting and extracting. Less problem with afternoon and evening listening as ears expand a bit.
 
As of now, the fit is good enough, but I'm debating if it's worth the hassle and cost of remolding and posting back to FL from Asia for a re-fit. It could come back worse (?)....worth giving it a few more days for my ears to adjust.
 
On another note:- I wonder if JHA (or any other very high-end iem makers) would ever introduce universal 13/16s (like their demos)?
 
There would be a good market for them at, say 20%-30%, discount to the custom......just a thought.
 
Quote:

I don't know that everyone can get a fit that disappears.  I had two different impressions and several refits but it seems the closer to a good impression without a refit the better.  On my last impression it was from Jerry's main audiologist in LA and the only thing i changed was the length of the stems.  The fit is "good enough".  They disappears at times but not most of the time.  Many people have gone thru numerous refits, some have ended up just selling them others have ended frustrated, settling for as close as they can get.  People should be aware that not everyone can get that disappear perfect fit, I sure couldn't and I spent hundreds of dollars on shipping back and forth and two audiologist fees.  I have the 13's, took me about four or five months with those costs, i do like them a lot now that it is over but i don't know if knowing what i do now I would do it again, probably not.  It is a long and expensive road for many however i am aware that some are lucky enough to get it perfect the first shot.  Be happy that you didn't have to end up with "good enough".

 

[dj nellie]

It does seem that most people with fit issues have them on the right side, who knows why that is.  In my case, my left ear seems to have a more straight and wide canal, so the shape of the tip doesn't have to be so nuanced.  I can just pop it in with one hand and give it a slight twist, and it sounds equally clear every time.

My right ear, on the other hand, seems to have more strange curvations going on.  I just got back what must've been my 8th fit adjustment on the right ear (2 sets of impressions), and it's still not 100%.  I feel like I'm including very detailed feedback each time I sent the earpiece back; the last time, I even included a drawing of the shape of the tip that I think would get the bores to point unobstructed into my ear canal.  However, they just removed some of the width on the end of the tip without changing the shape. 
 
The right side just sounds more cloudy, muffled, and distant than the left.  I've managed to figure out an insertion method (hehe) that probably gives me the best sound, but it's hard to replicate every time and requires a delicate maneuver that isn't easy to do while walking around.  It's frustrating because of how sublime the left side sounds.  It can be hard to just get lost in the music, rather than focus on how I'm missing out on the best possible sound on the right side.
 
I'm almost tempted to get the JH-3A so that I can legitimately ask for a total do-over on the shape of the tip, but that's silly, right?  I guess I'm just feeling a bit guilty asking the good people at JHA to keep re-tooling the tip.

 

[midoo1990]

Quote:

dallan, thats kinda sobering news to hear.... (pardon the pun),
If thats the case then what happens when you live halfway across the world, as im in Australia?
Thats something thats definately got to be factored into the cost of buying these things, postage & audiologist fees.Hmmm this could get mighty expensive ye?
How many of ya out there got em spot on first time - needing no refits etc?

definetly take cost into consideration especially if you need 2-3 times of refit.i paid close to $1700 on my jh13.$100 because jh audio screwed up the colour and i had to pay them to make it another colour.
the rest is because i took two impressions and 3 refits and from all the sending back and forth via fedex,i ended up paying a fortune.
 
the fit is close to perfect but not 100%.i have no discomfort and sometimes i forget they are there but still not perfect.
 
As Dallan said,if i knew what i knew now,i wouldnt purchase the 13s again.i would have got a full size headphone instead.dont get me wrong,the jh13 sound fantastic and it made me sell all my universals and full size headphones but i just think $1050 for them is waaaaaaaaaaaay too much and what the $1700 that i paid is mind blowing.i wont purchase another custom again unless i have unlimited budget for audio.
 
i am very happy with my jh13 and it deserves all the credits,and i havent purchased any headphone in 6 months which is incredible for me and shows how spectacular it is.
if you can get pass the cost of the jh13 or jh16,i gurantee you that you will be very happy everytime you listen to it.
EDIT:also regarding comfort of customs,i would never return to universals....ever.no more dealing with foamy,silicon...tips.it was a nightmare really,except for the ie8 which was incredible in its shalow fit.not to mention the sq difference between universals and customs.

 

[Yale]

In general, before you order custom iem's, I guess it's one of those things that you hope to get lucky and have a great fit the first time around. But if not, you have to decide what your commitment would be -- if it's worth the hassle and expense of going thru to make it "perfect". Otherwise all you have is a very expensive piece of acrylic sitting around with not much resale value, and it (literally) pains you to use.
 
As for me, I will likely have mine refitted after a few more trial days as it will be a psychological and financial thorn on my side if I don't....or unless my right ear changes shape in the next few days...
 
My 2 cents on customs iems: generally, I think it's difficult to get them fitted perfectly the first time around. It happens. My guess would be 70%-80% of the time (maybe? I don't have the stats, but that's my guess). Even with custom shirts or suits, one needs to have a few fittings to have it tailored properly. The main difference with iem's is that it's a one shot deal. In other words, there's no interim fitting and alteration between taking the initial measurements (having the ear molds done) and the day one receives the finished product in the mail. Much of it depends on luck and more importantly, the consistency and experience of the technicians molding/polishing/finishing the ear shells. The longer/better their experience, my guess, the more accurate the fit.
 
As to why the posters here, including myself, seem to have more issues with the right ear fit? Pure chance is my guess....unless JHA have guys/gals specializing only right and left sides, in which case the people doing the right side should re-trained or be let go because they're losing money for the company and hurting its reputation......but I sincerely don't think it is the case here. 

 
Quote:

definetly take cost into consideration especially if you need 2-3 times of refit.i paid close to $1700 on my jh13.$100 because jh audio screwed up the colour and i had to pay them to make it another colour.
the rest is because i took two impressions and 3 refits and from all the sending back and forth via fedex,i ended up paying a fortune.
 
the fit is close to perfect but not 100%.i have no discomfort and sometimes i forget they are there but still not perfect.
 
As Dallan said,if i knew what i knew now,i wouldnt purchase the 13s again.i would have got a full size headphone instead.dont get me wrong,the jh13 sound fantastic and it made me sell all my universals and full size headphones but i just think $1050 for them is waaaaaaaaaaaay too much and what the $1700 that i paid is mind blowing.i wont purchase another custom again unless i have unlimited budget for audio.
 
i am very happy with my jh13 and it deserves all the credits,and i havent purchased any headphone in 6 months which is incredible for me and shows how spectacular it is.
if you can get pass the cost of the jh13 or jh16,i gurantee you that you will be very happy everytime you listen to it.
EDIT:also regarding comfort of customs,i would never return to universals....ever.no more dealing with foamy,silicon...tips.it was a nightmare really,except for the ie8 which was incredible in its shalow fit.not to mention the sq difference between universals and customs.

 

[riceball]

How would you guys describe the bass in the jh16pro compared to the jh13pro, is it a cleaner punch (not really sure how to describe it as I'm knew to the audiophile thing). Reason I ask is I do enjoy my bass, but i hate the muddy sound (reminds me of those riced cars that shake to crap).
 
I can't decide between the jh13pro or jh16pro, I've been reading the last few days and I can't seem to picture how the 16pro will sound, on one hand I hear people saying that the 13pros are not anemic in the bass category, but the 16pros have more of it and it's still nice and refined (which I can't really imagine). When I picture it i think of a high end theatre system with gargantuan sub.
 
Reason why I'm so concerned with this is because I'm a student (hooray for loans taking me through school) so I'm trying to use my penny wisely. I'm lost and need help please.
 
On a side note, sonically how would you describe the TWag cords from whiplash audio, I don't really understand how a cord can make it headphones sound better but I'm not going to dismiss that idea that it doesn't b/c I'm sure you guys can't be wrong about what your ears hear.

 

[tourneychamp23]

I just want to chime in and say that I am having fit issues with my right side as well. It seems like most people are sending them back because of the right ear. Ive sent mine back 3 times already. Jh Audio has been great about it, but the right side still isn't perfect and I do not feel like waiting another 2+ weeks to send them back and forth. Don't get me wrong when i get a proper seal they always seem to amaze me. I just wish there was an easier way to get the impressions correct the first time. According to Adam I was a unique situation because when I would get them back from JHA the fit would be perfect but after a few days the seal would go. He asked Jerry about the problem and they said it was because the inside of my ear kept expanding larger and larger after the adjustments. You know when you have a great seal they just blow you away as long as your listening to higher quality music.

 

[3X0]

Quote:

How would you guys describe the bass in the jh16pro compared to the jh13pro, is it a cleaner punch (not really sure how to describe it as I'm knew to the audiophile thing). Reason I ask is I do enjoy my bass, but i hate the muddy sound (reminds me of those riced cars that shake to crap).
 
I can't decide between the jh13pro or jh16pro, I've been reading the last few days and I can't seem to picture how the 16pro will sound, on one hand I hear people saying that the 13pros are not anemic in the bass category, but the 16pros have more of it and it's still nice and refined (which I can't really imagine). When I picture it i think of a high end theatre system with gargantuan sub.
 
Reason why I'm so concerned with this is because I'm a student (hooray for loans taking me through school) so I'm trying to use my penny wisely. I'm lost and need help please.
 
On a side note, sonically how would you describe the TWag cords from whiplash audio, I don't really understand how a cord can make it headphones sound better but I'm not going to dismiss that idea that it doesn't b/c I'm sure you guys can't be wrong about what your ears hear.

The JH16 is quite bass-oriented in a sense that music will have a palpable emphasis in the very lowest registers. We're talking sub-80Hz boosts here, and it really views the music through a different lens. When you say high-end theatre system with a gargantuan sub, that's quite close -- it's a little north of room-corrected, though (if you follow room equalization in home theatre systems at all). Historically I've represented the JH16 as a rather high-end venue with a mesmerizing subwoofer arrangement. It's really something else, especially with live recordings.
 
The JH13 is more even-handed, and the emphasis it has centered around 50Hz is really not that big of a deal. The JH13 approaches more of a room-corrected speaker system with tight, precise equalization -- it sounds like you're hearing the music from a recording studio. Its response is quite a bit more neutral and "correct" -- it sounds like you're listening to the music the way the recording engineers and producers wanted it to sound. There's no notable emphasis -- the bass, mids and treble all coalesce nicely to provide an incredibly balanced, vivid presentation.
 
Honestly, at this level, I don't think people could go wrong with either. Both the JH13 and JH16 sound fantastic and play in the same league as most of the very best full-size headphones. There were recordings that I personally felt the JH16 did better on, and other recordings where the JH13s came ahead. With my primary music tastes in consideration (progressive breaks and electronic from the likes of Hybrid, BT), I felt the emphasized sub-end of the JH16 was a little too much.
 
I do have to commend the JH16s for doing something that seems almost impossible -- it increases quantity of bass without sacrificing quality in the slightest bit. All the bass quality (texture, speed, control, etc.) in the JH16 is every bit as good as in the JH13* while offering a greater deal of quantity and palpable, visceral impact. The bass in the JH16 has sometimes been described as otherworldly, and this is very much the case.
 
*Overall, I feel the JH13 and JH16 are on exactly the same technical level. In terms of all the key qualities (resolution of minute details, speed and "PRaT", extension, overall refinement), they are equals.
 
But for my music, the 16 did things "wrong" more often than the 13s did -- the 13s get it "right" almost all of the time. When the 16s got to some live recordings (e.g. Daft Punk's Alive 2007), it's really bloody amazing. In other cases, like Hybrid's I Choose Noise, the 16s frequency balance just feels a tad too boosted down below. The JH16s can "wow" very easily, but in the end the JH13 was the reliable choice my ears chose to marry. My iPod Shuffle 1st-gen (my portable DAP of choice) made the 16s too frequently overbearing.
 
So I sold the 16s and kept the 13s. This was before I was fully aware of the JH3A -- in hindsight I should've tacked it onto my 16s since the DSP could take care of the bass and I'd have the 13s for portable use.
 
I'm also a student; it was quite a painful process taking the loss from owning both the 13 and 16 and ultimately selling one of them.

 

[alyanm]

I just got my JH16s and amazingly, the right ear needed a refit.  I'm very lucky because I live close to JHA here in Florida, I took it for a refit yesterday and after two tries Noy got it perfect.  Since then I just want to leave them in all the time!  I also got the side benefit of a little lesson on how to insert and remove the earpieces -- twist in and twist out -- this has totally changed my experience of putting in the JH16s.  I can even do both pieces at the same time, its totally awesome!  And this after over a year of wearing UE11s.
 
I would also like to add that for me the JH16s have great mids and trebles and do not seem to be bass heavy at all -- certainly not when compared to my old UE11s which are infamous for being bassy.  I do like bass and it seems to me that the JH16 delivers bass when it needs to without any muddying or distortion.  When there is no bass in the sound the JH16 does not put any bass coloring in there.  All bass notes are clean and clearer than any other headphone that I've heard personally.  I did listen to both the JH13s and JH16s when I placed my order -- they have demos at JHA -- and to me the JH16 brought a better bass experience without sacrificing anything at all. 

 

[diffuse101]

I just got my JH16s and I need a refit too. When i open my jaw, I can feel the bottom side of the tips of the customs rubbing my ear canals, it would cause a 'tacky' sound like acrylic on skin. It would also itch if I do it repeatedly. The issue is more apparent in my left ear, the right ear only slightly.. The seal would also be broken on the left side when I open my mouth wider.
 
I also feel that the treble is louder than the mids and bass, details are very good but can be fatiguing after a while, female voices tend to be sibilant. Do you think the lab can solve this by moving the high drivers further away or perhaps moving the mid driver closer to the ear
 
One question about the refitting timeframe, JH allows refitting for the first 30days, what happens after 30 days and issues still exist? The reason I am asking this is due to the upcoming festive period, Christmas and the new year. I'm sure the lab would be close and work will only commence a few days after the new year, by then 30 days is almost up for me..

 

[riceball]

@ 3X0
 
You are a good man, thank you for clearing that up for me. The bass of the JH16pro intrigues me the more I hear about it, the more I want to hear it. I listen to the same kind of music as you most of the time, and the occasional soft rock, so that's a good reference especially if you think the bass is a tad to much, but still this mysterious amazing base allures me to no end. Would you consider yourself as a bass head or do you tend to the neutral more?

Another quick question, did you try the JH16pro on different amps? If so did you find certain amps created more base than others or were even amps where the JH16pro
 
@ alaynm
 
Your description like many others is exactly why I'm so torn, some say the base is very refined but too much, some say no it's not its very refined and not over-bearing. I wish I had the luxury of a demo. Being in Canada sucks sometimes, oh well.
 
 
 
A part of me is saying get the 13s cause for sure you'll like them, the other part is saying get the 16s you'll regret not having the bass. Anyways thank you for the impression guys I have the mull over this a bit longer. I was wondering about whiplash audio's elite twag wires, will I hear a significant change unamped or do I "need" an amp. I'm buying my DAP first (deciding on iPod/J3 still haven't decided yet, but I notice a lot of people using touches/classics must be a reason for that) and the headphones. I have some cash left over but not enough for the amp (RSA predator) at this time, but I do have enough for the twag cord. So to reiterate my question, will I hear a significant difference with the twags straight from the DAP?

 

[riceball]

Quote:

...

I haven't really heard any JH customer service horror stories through all the reading I've done, I'm sure if they do take time off they'll understand that you're not the one at fault for going pass the 30 day refitting. I wouldn't fret to much, as some people have gone 2-3 months it seems of refitting (scary).

That being said I think all your sound problems seem to be just fit related so I'd definitely get on that, as everyone seems to agree that for the most part the 13s and 16s trebles and mids are damn close if not the same, and the difference is in the low-low end presentation.

 

[3X0]

Quote:

@ 3X0
 
You are a good man, thank you for clearing that up for me. The bass of the JH16pro intrigues me the more I hear about it, the more I want to hear it. I listen to the same kind of music as you most of the time, and the occasional soft rock, so that's a good reference especially if you think the bass is a tad to much, but still this mysterious amazing base allures me to no end. Would you consider yourself as a bass head or do you tend to the neutral more?

Another quick question, did you try the JH16pro on different amps? If so did you find certain amps created more base than others or were even amps where the JH16pro

I prefer a neutral response. I do like my bass, but part of the reason that I sold the JH16s was because my Grado HF-2s are already my basshead headphones.
 
I evaluated the JH16 vis-a-vis the JH13 over the headphone-out of the iPhone 3GS and out of my Peachtree Audio Nova. The bass of the JH13 should please most everyone when properly fed -- the scaling going from the 3GS to the Nova was exceptional. The JH16's bass response improved less so between the two sources. I suspect that the JH16 is a bit more complicated and picky with amplification than the JH13 is -- the latter scales stunningly well, and consistently.

 

[alyanm]

@riceball:
 
I totally understand what you're going through.  Believe it or not, I arranged to demo the the JH16 just because I wanted to be thorough, I had actually made up my mind beforehand to get the JH13 largely based on comments from this forum.  After listening to both, I just liked the 16 better.  Yes I am a bit of a basshead and I admit it so its ok.
 
I have tried the 16 with my Pico Slim and I'll tell you the truth, it didn't really work.  I've tried it now with my Sony Walkman X -- very nice pairing.  I also tried it with my Zune HD and it made the Zune sound better than I have heard it sound with any other headset or speaker.  I am now hooked on listening to my 16s with my HM-601 and that is a match made in heaven!  I have yet to try it with my iPod Touch 4G -- which I don't use for music much (I use it for app development) and I also want to try it with my Archos 5 IT Android.
 
I think its a basic truth that the 16 doesn't work well with amps -- fortunately it doesn't seem to need an amp.  Jaime told me that she found that her 13s needed an amp but her 16s didn't and I concur with that assessment.
 
Good luck!  You really can't go wrong either way.  I think if you have a bit of basshead in you then you will appreciate the 16s, if you really like truly neutral then get the 13s.  Or if you get the JH-3A with the 16s then you can control the bass so you have the best of both worlds!
Quote:

Another quick question, did you try the JH16pro on different amps? If so did you find certain amps created more base than others or were even amps where the JH16pro
 
@ alaynm
 
Your description like many others is exactly why I'm so torn, some say the base is very refined but too much, some say no it's not its very refined and not over-bearing. I wish I had the luxury of a demo. Being in Canada sucks sometimes, oh well.
 
 
 
A part of me is saying get the 13s cause for sure you'll like them, the other part is saying get the 16s you'll regret not having the bass. Anyways thank you for the impression guys I have the mull over this a bit longer. I was wondering about whiplash audio's elite twag wires, will I hear a significant change unamped or do I "need" an amp. I'm buying my DAP first (deciding on iPod/J3 still haven't decided yet, but I notice a lot of people using touches/classics must be a reason for that) and the headphones. I have some cash left over but not enough for the amp (RSA predator) at this time, but I do have enough for the twag cord. So to reiterate my question, will I hear a significant difference with the twags straight from the DAP?