[IA64]

Quote:

Blocked or bores just too close ot a bend can do that. Glad it's working out.

 
 
Ok now I get it.... Everything you said so far turned out to be true. There is no doubt that my IEM sound better after sending it back for some reason but that's not what made the big difference.
 
I run some scenarios and compared the sound from my DAC and here's what I found : 
 
It's looks like the JH16's are very dependent on the source impedance which has a huge effect on how they sound.
 
Current setup  iMac 27 ->  opt out -> Yulong D100 MKII -> ( cheap earbuds - Shure SE535 - JH16 ) 
 
My DAC has 2 headphone output.. Low and high... I fired a Stereophile Test CD and compared the sound output directly from iMac, from the low headphone output and the high one on the 3 phones.
 
With the cheap earbuds, there was no difference to note between the iMac analog output and low output of my DAC. Plugging it in the High impedance output, the sound seemed louder for obvious reason but not different ( Dynamic driver )
 
With the SE535, the was a noticeable improvement in sound quality from the DAC ( low Z output )  compared to the iMac output. When I connected it to the high output socket and reduced the volume to match the same dB level of Low output, the bass around 30-60Hz was punchier and deeper with wider sound stage.
 
Now with the JH16 is a different story. Directly from the iMac, sound was OK but the bass is still uncontrolled, it's boomy to a certain extent which is the case when connected to the iphone 4S and Lumia 920. The bass is sometimes disturbing unsuitable for jazz, blues, classical and opera music but good for techno, hip hop and DnB genres.
 
It's when I connected the JH16's to the low impedance output of my DAC and played track 12 "Bruce Dunlap-'Threedledum' that took me to an entire new sonic level. Much better clarity, very controlled yet powerful bass even at very high volume level. 
 
Playing the same track from the High Z output, I almost missed half the details...Bass was covering most of the mids even at low volumes. It seemed like if the amp was powering the bass drivers only. 
 
What is surprising is that my Shure Se535 with 36 ohms impedance wasn't affected by the source impedance as much as the 18 ohm JH16.
 
I've always thought that the IEM impedance isn't a major player since most of them are high efficient within 16- 40 ohms and the frequency response deviation shouldn't be more than 2dB which is not audible and any damping factor over 10 is said to have negligible effect on the sound.

 

[lee730]

Nope you can't assume that there will be a negligible impact with high output impedance on low impedance/sensitive IEMs. Plus the effects will not be consistent. With different IEMs you'll get varied results depending on how they were designed. So it's always best to go for a source with as low of impedance as possible. This is particularly important with BA IEMs but I still heard differences between sensitive dynamic headphones/IEMs. So for the most part all my sources have low output impedance's to cover all bases.
 

 

[chengsta]

yea seriously, that looks like 12 drivers.  Maybe that's why they sound so good. 
 
Maybe I should send mine back once I get'em and complain that the sound is too weak or something and they'll add more just to shut me up

 

[bimadz]

Quote:

yea seriously, that looks like 12 drivers.  Maybe that's why they sound so good. 
 
Maybe I should send mine back once I get'em and complain that the sound is too weak or something and they'll add more just to shut me up

 
+ 1 

 

[IA64]

Quote:

Nope you can't assume that there will be a negligible impact with high output impedance on low impedance/sensitive IEMs. Plus the effects will not be consistent. With different IEMs you'll get varied results depending on how they were designed. So it's always best to go for a source with as low of impedance as possible. This is particularly important with BA IEMs but I still heard differences between sensitive dynamic headphones/IEMs. So for the most part all my sources have low output impedance's to cover all bases.
 

 
Well if that's the case then, it doesn't make any sense reading IEM reviews anymore since whatever you hear is depending on your source. You have to buy the IEM along with the reviewer setup.... At least now I understand why people have different opinions 
 
 
Could be that the higher impedance of the 13's is helping to keep the bass under control when unamped  ie. phone output ? I'm still not convinced that the impedance has such a huge effect on sound perception 
 
BTW, JH16 + Yulong D100 MKII  is a godlike combo

 

[lee730]

Quote:

 
Well if that's the case then, it doesn't make any sense reading IEM reviews anymore since whatever you hear is depending on your source. You have to buy the IEM along with the reviewer setup.... At least now I understand why people have different opinions 
 
 
Could be that the higher impedance of the 13's is helping to keep the bass under control when unamped  ie. phone output ? I'm still not convinced that the impedance has such a huge effect on sound perception 
 
BTW, JH16 + Yulong D100 MKII  is a godlike combo

Why do you not believe it? You said you heard it for yourself? What more evidence do you need? Even science backs what you heard and goes into clear detail on why.

 

[IA64]

Quote:

Why do you not believe it? You said you heard it for yourself? What more evidence do you need? Even science backs what you heard and goes into clear detail on why.

 
 
Reading this might be an answer http://www.head-fi.org/t/582015/how-much-does-source-impedance-of-an-amp-alter-the-sound-of-a-headphone

 

[InfiniteGene]

Quote:

 
 
This is not what I have. If you check the pictures I sent, I have 2 duals in the botton and one in the corner. Are the tweeter and midrange duals of the same size ?  I can see something very tiny connected at the end, I am not sure if it's the crossover.

the low drivers are slightly bigger that the mid drivers while the high tweeter are the smallest.
 
just follow the sound tubes and see where it leads to, the quad lows have only 1 outlet...

 

[IA64]

Quote:

the low drivers are slightly bigger that the mid drivers while the high tweeter are the smallest.
 
just follow the sound tubes and see where it leads to, the quad lows have only 1 outlet...

 
That's exactly what I've done... one dual low and one dual mid equally sized and one half the size dual tweeter  each connected to one bore. Totally lost... 

 

[goodvibes]

Quote:

 
 
Ok now I get it.... Everything you said so far turned out to be true. There is no doubt that my IEM sound better after sending it back for some reason but that's not what made the big difference.
 
I run some scenarios and compared the sound from my DAC and here's what I found : 
 
It's looks like the JH16's are very dependent on the source impedance which has a huge effect on how they sound.
 
Current setup  iMac 27 ->  opt out -> Yulong D100 MKII -> ( cheap earbuds - Shure SE535 - JH16 ) 
 
My DAC has 2 headphone output.. Low and high... I fired a Stereophile Test CD and compared the sound output directly from iMac, from the low headphone output and the high one on the 3 phones.
 
With the cheap earbuds, there was no difference to note between the iMac analog output and low output of my DAC. Plugging it in the High impedance output, the sound seemed louder for obvious reason but not different ( Dynamic driver )
 
With the SE535, the was a noticeable improvement in sound quality from the DAC ( low Z output )  compared to the iMac output. When I connected it to the high output socket and reduced the volume to match the same dB level of Low output, the bass around 30-60Hz was punchier and deeper with wider sound stage.
 
Now with the JH16 is a different story. Directly from the iMac, sound was OK but the bass is still uncontrolled, it's boomy to a certain extent which is the case when connected to the iphone 4S and Lumia 920. The bass is sometimes disturbing unsuitable for jazz, blues, classical and opera music but good for techno, hip hop and DnB genres.
 
It's when I connected the JH16's to the low impedance output of my DAC and played track 12 "Bruce Dunlap-'Threedledum' that took me to an entire new sonic level. Much better clarity, very controlled yet powerful bass even at very high volume level. 
 
Playing the same track from the High Z output, I almost missed half the details...Bass was covering most of the mids even at low volumes. It seemed like if the amp was powering the bass drivers only. 
 
What is surprising is that my Shure Se535 with 36 ohms impedance wasn't affected by the source impedance as much as the 18 ohm JH16.
 
I've always thought that the IEM impedance isn't a major player since most of them are high efficient within 16- 40 ohms and the frequency response deviation shouldn't be more than 2dB which is not audible and any damping factor over 10 is said to have negligible effect on the sound.

This is solid info for many here that like to use resistors for frequency modification. Damping factor is also affected. In this case, the higher output impedance will have less low bass but the mid bass is less controlled and the overhang can muddy things up. Resistors can work with over damped devices that can use the tailoring but when you have something that already has good bass, it can be detrimental, regardless of what you see on a frequency response chart. When your dealing with higher output impedances, it's rather hit and miss even with good calculations or frequency charts.
 
I prefer the 13s higher impedance and lower efficiency but it also has enough bottom to be affected by damping factor. It will be less so than the 16 for a few reasons (impedance, less overall bass quantity and 2 bass drivers should be easier to control than 4) but it can happen as well. They sound fatter when my player is on low charge rather than med or above for instance..

 

[IA64]

Btw, SE535 noise isolation is much better than the 16's.
 
Do you guys get your ear canals wet when using your CIEM  ?  I can't use them for more than 30 minutes in row although it feels like 17C with low humidity here, my ear canals get very wet and start popping inside my ear... I spent some time trying to look for earwax in the canal but there isn't any.

 

[lee730]

I've been able to wear my for hours without issues.

 

[IA64]

Anyway, I sent JHA another mail 2 days ago with a picture of my IEM asking why I could only see 6 drivers... Never received an answer 

 

[goodvibes]

The other thing is that there looks to be only 2 bores. The tubes look to join just before the bore so it's still similar to a tripple bore but this could be to have the bores more centered to keep them awat form obstructions or to add acoustic resistance to the bass. It's actually pretty baffling. I would try to stay up some night and give them a call.

 

[IA64]

Quote:

The other thing is that there looks to be only 2 bores. The tubes look to join just before the bore so it's still similar to a tripple bore but this could be to have the bores more centered to keep them awat form obstructions or to add acoustic resistance to the bass. It's actually pretty baffling. I would try to stay up some night and give them a call.

 
Actually I made sure I'm not going nuts, there are 3 duals, each connected to a bore. To be dead honest, I am not caring that much anymore.
 
After spending a week trying almost every genre of music and setup combination, I am afraid to say that the sound signature is not my taste. I might be very picky and nag a lot I know, but I am not the type of people who trick their mind to justify the price tag. The sound is good, it's really good but nothing close to what I was expecting. For the same price an over the ear sounds definitely better.
 
Yeah you're gonna talk about portability but I'd rather carry an over the ear than an IEM with portable amp. The JH16 ( probably 13 as well ) depends on the source in an annoying way.I bet they will not sound the same with a 64" cable...  I 'm still in my late 20's and have probably very good ears, actually I started learning and playing music, piano specifically, since I was 8 which must have helped me picking all the details in a track but sorry I tried to like the JH's as much as I paid and failed.
 
Un-amped, they are not for classical, jazz, blues, opera whatsoever.. not at all.
 
Call me what you want, but I'm gonna have the courage to say that the Shure SE535.... do sound better, at least from the same phone output and with the mentioned music genre. This is purely subjective I know but...
 
I'll get the Heir 8 and see how things will go.
 
 
Btw, JHA advertise on their website that their JH16 /JH-3A can hit the 23KHz and they seem to be very proud of it... not sure why would someone care if the audible FR is limited to 20KHz. Not to mention that almost anyone older than 20 can't hear beyond 17-17.5 KHz and this decreases as we age let alone the fact that the spectrum is capped at 22KHz for Flac.
 
I am starting to believe that the audiophile world has become an ideal place for marketing hypes... we'll see.