[plus_c]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oistrakh My hope is either go to harvard/MIT/Brown/Yale... and go into medical school (I hope...) Theres so much pressure these days, and its really hard to get into medical school...

I'm a senior at Penn right now, about to graduate with a degree in operations management from the business school. Since I was a business major, I can't really tell you about getting into med school and stuff. However, I can say that my business degree is getting me and my classmates places. My friends are all juggling multiple offers, and our average starting salaries are way above the national average, at employers like Goldman Sachs and Microsoft. One of the things I've noticed here is Penn's amazing Nursing school program. That might help you getting into med school, and I hear Penn's is #1 in the country.

As for admissions requirements: take the hardest classes you can in your high school, and do well. Ivy admissions offices (and top-tier admissions offices in general) want to see that you're challenging yourself. In addition, they want to see involvements in extracurricular activities - I was a major marching band nerd in high school. They also want to make sure the college is right for you - make sure the Ivy environment is one that you feel comfortable in before you drop all that money on tuition.

I've had a great experience in the Ivy League - being surrounded by extremely smart people has been one hell of an experience. This has been very very long-winded, but I guess the point of it is this: if the Ivy League college experience is one that you want, then by all means go for it!

PS. Ivy League means never having to be ashamed at a sucky football team. :-D

 

[Oistrakh]

Quote:

Originally Posted by plus_c I'm a senior at Penn right now, about to graduate with a degree in operations management from the business school. Since I was a business major, I can't really tell you about getting into med school and stuff. However, I can say that my business degree is getting me and my classmates places. My friends are all juggling multiple offers, and our average starting salaries are way above the national average, at employers like Goldman Sachs and Microsoft. One of the things I've noticed here is Penn's amazing Nursing school program. That might help you getting into med school, and I hear Penn's is #1 in the country. As for admissions requirements: take the hardest classes you can in your high school, and do well. Ivy admissions offices (and top-tier admissions offices in general) want to see that you're challenging yourself. In addition, they want to see involvements in extracurricular activities - I was a major marching band nerd in high school. They also want to make sure the college is right for you - make sure the Ivy environment is one that you feel comfortable in before you drop all that money on tuition. I've had a great experience in the Ivy League - being surrounded by extremely smart people has been one hell of an experience. This has been very very long-winded, but I guess the point of it is this: if the Ivy League college experience is one that you want, then by all means go for it! PS. Ivy League means never having to be ashamed at a sucky football team. :-D

did you go to UPENN for undergrad?

Did you get straight As, and did you take calculus BC? I'm going to take AP Calculus BC and I might want to go to AB, but my mom still wants me to be in BC. How much work is there?

whats the easiest ivy league school to get into besides cornell?

 

[dwchin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teerawit Point of clarification: The OP wants to go to medical school. He's asking if the prestige of the undergrad matters. Sure you can go to the Ivy League for medical school, as the prestige can matter in medical circles. However, the prestige of the undergrad doesn't matter (IMO) in order to get to that Ivy League medical school. You can still flaunt your Harvard MD degree after going to Podonk College for undergrad.

I agree that the prestige of the undergrad school doesn't necessarily matter for med school applications. The most important things about applying to med school are most definitely GPA, extracurriculars, and MCAT scores. If you can accomplish a great GPA and MCAT while still maintaining a reasonable degree of extra activities or a job on the side at a state school with a good name, then you're just as good an applicant than someone coming from a more expensive, 'prestigious' school.

With that said, not all school are the same, obviously. I use Cornell as an example because that's what I'm familiar with. Cornell maintains an extremely high average acceptance rate to med schools, and for good reason. They work their students hard, and unlike other Ivy schools, they don't have that extreme grade inflation. Med schools know this about Cornell students, so if you can maintain even a decent GPA from Cornell, it means something to them. I would say it's not the Ivy label that gets you in, it's the fact that Cornell has a reputation for working students hard and providing a good education. Plenty of other great schools out there have this same reputation, Ivy or not, and also have high acceptance rates to med school.

I must say, though, that if you have your heart set on going to an Ivy, but you're a little hesitant about the price, then Cornell is the best of the lot. Half of its colleges are endowed, and half are state-funded. If you go to one of the publicly-funded colleges, you get an Ivy education for a NY state school price. That in itself is hard to beat. Go Big Red!

 

[plus_c]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oistrakh did you go to UPENN for undergrad? Did you get straight As, and did you take calculus BC? I'm going to take AP Calculus BC and I might want to go to AB, but my mom still wants me to be in BC. How much work is there? whats the easiest ivy league school to get into besides cornell?

Yep, I'm an undergrad right now, actually. (If I were doing an MBA, I'd be called a second-year.)

To be honest, I think Ivy League admissions is nothing more than a crapshoot. Everyone's smart, and a lot of times decisions hinge on the essay, because that's where personalities come out.

EDIT: I took my high school's equivalent of Calc BC (we split the calculus curriculum into 3 semesters, and I took all 3 semesters), didn't do as well as I could have or should have. I didn't take the AP test either, but got into Penn anyways. How, I sometimes still wonder.

 

[dwchin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by plus_c To be honest, I think Ivy League admissions is nothing more than a crapshoot. Everyone's smart, and a lot of times decisions hinge on the essay, because that's where personalities come out.

I agree! Except that I'll say that acceptances hinge on recommendation letters and extracurriculars in high school. Every applicant has a stellar GPA and good SAT scores. I have to admit: I thought my essays were pretty decent way back when I applied, but I recently re-read my admissions essays for fun last year, and I realized they were pure suckage. While I was at Cornell, I had a chance to evaluate other students and their applications while I was on certain selection committees (not, mind you, for admissions into Cornell). Knowing what I know now, there's no way I'd have admitted myself with those essays....

 

[jjcha]

Agreed. Apply to all the good schools you're interested in, not just the "easy" ones. With so many talented applicants, there is an element of variability/randomness in the decisions process and you never know which schools you happen to get accepted to and those you don't.

Incidentally, go to a school that will prepare you well for med school if that's your goal, but keep in mind that statistically are more likely to change your mind than go to med school.

If I did what was planning when I applied for university, I would have graduated, gone to law school, been a lawyer for 3 or 4 years, then gotten my MBA and gone into business.

Oh wait...

Incidentally, why the fixation on the Ivys? I'm 100% positive that for you, there are some Ivys I wouldn't go to and many other non-Ivys that are better.

You're not asian are you? I've got my bet on what ethnicity, but it wouldn't be PC to disclose...

Best,

-Jason

 

[LFF]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ojnihs Jahn hit it pretty much on the nose. It really doesn't matter what college you go to, and it's been imbedded into our heads that if you go to one of the eight IVY's that you're bound for success (especially if you got some pushy asian parents)

This is true. I had the opportunity to go to Harvard for college and to some "Ivy" Law Schools but didn't want to. In my experience I have seen some brilliant people (people from Harvard, Brown, etc) fail misserably because they simply don't have common sense or know how to deal with a real world scenario.

Recently one of my employer's friend hired a "brilliant" attorney from Harvard. She came in, nose high in the air and everyone was in awe that there was a Harvard lawyer in town.

My reaction:

Anyway, she proceeded to take on a few cases and failed miserably with her clients. She just couldn't communicate with them and couldn't handle the pressure of having the phone ringing while a person waited in the lobby and while another attorney was on hold.

Anyway, my point is - the school you pick will not make you who you are but will merely be a unique experience. No school will make you into a success. Your common sense, way with people and who you know WILL make you a success if you choose your options wisely and make the right contacts.

In all my professional experience I have never had ANYONE ask anyone at my office "Excuse me, where did you go to law school?".

EDIT: The brilliant Harvard attorney got fired and the most common question having to do with success I get is "So, what kind of car do you/your boss drive?" - go figure

 

[plus_c]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jjcha Agreed. Apply to all the good schools you're interested in, not just the "easy" ones. With so many talented applicants, there is an element of variability/randomness in the decisions process and you never know which schools you happen to get accepted to and those you don't. Incidentally, go to a school that will prepare you well for med school if that's your goal, but keep in mind that statistically are more likely to change your mind than go to med school. If I did what was planning when I applied for university, I would have graduated, gone to law school, been a lawyer for 3 or 4 years, then gotten my MBA and gone into business. Oh wait... Incidentally, why the fixation on the Ivys? I'm 100% positive that for you, there are some Ivys I wouldn't go to and many other non-Ivys that are better. Best, -Jason

The part about changing minds rings so true with me. When I was in high school, I thought I was going to be a computer scientist. Hah, how wrong I was.

Also very agreed with your assessment of the Ivy League schools. Most of the Ivies are much better known for liberal arts than for the sciences majors that typify pre-med students...

 

[xbkingx]

I disagree with some of the above comments. Ivy League is not THAT big of a deal, but going to a top rated school will present you with opportunities others may not get. People are more willing to take a chance on a nobody from a good school versus a 'regular' school (and basically everyone fresh out of school is a nobody). There is also the fact that you are surrounded by other classmates that will challenge you more, and professors that write the books others are teaching from.

I went to Emory undergrad (ranked 9 when I was there, but jumps up and down since they stopped paying the US News reviewer his $45k/yr - something most other schools do in order to get 'accurately ranked'). I took time off and worked in big pharma, and returned to grad school at Brown (Neuroscience). There are maybe 2-3 people in the program from sub-50 ranking schools. We are in the middle of interview season, and 90%+ are top 50 universities, with most in the top 10.

So if you go straight into the working world, you can make the most of any decent school, really. Names will help a 'little'. If you're going into biomed/premed, aim as high as possible. Most ILs want you to succeed, and their grading policies reflect it. Most allow you to drop any class you're getting below a B in so your GPA isn't a major factor in post-college plans (of course drop too many classes and you will find yourself on the 6 year plan).

Anyhow, that's my take. Hope it didn't offend anyone, but having experienced both sides of the IL divide, and both industry and academia, I think I've got a decent idea of how it all works. I should also say that none of my friends have had trouble getting jobs (regardless of school), but the ones that went to state schools are earning around $30k less/year compared to higher ranked schools, with the exception of us grad students, who make bupkiss for our labors.

 

[plus_c]

Quote:

Originally Posted by xbkingx I should also say that none of my friends have had trouble getting jobs (regardless of school), but the ones that went to state schools are earning around $30k less/year compared to higher ranked schools, with the exception of us grad students, who make bupkiss for our labors.

Depends on what you're doing. I'm not doing that much better than a state-school grad simply because of the industry I've chosen. My friends in investment banking, on the other hand, are making $60k+ base with the opportunity to make that much again in bonus. For my school, the main benefit in the school's "brand name" is the caliber of employer we attract for on-campus recruiting - Merrill Lynch, Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley, Pepsi, P&G, and the like.

 

[JahJahBinks]

opportunity is there, but you still can't let go of it.

 

[timo_nyc]

This is a funny topic for me, because it puts into contrast what I think versus what I did:

I went to Brown as an undergraduate, did an exchange program to Paris with Columbia, and went to graduate school at Harvard. My wife attended Yale. The virtues of such schools are well known, and I obviously thought enough of them to attend, but having done so, I would say they are not without flaws. I loved Brown but found the campus an odd place to make friends. Columbia is fairly rigid for my taste, and fragmented in its strengths. Harvard is a place with obvious depth but also a certain institutional laziness (I don't care at all for Dr Summer's tenure, but he was right on this score). Lots of folks there were convinced they'd already made it by attending and hence didn't seem as enthusiastic or spirited as I thought they might, given the sheer amount of resources available in Cambridge.

My wife did not care for Yale at all, nor did her father.

OTOH I hear good things about both Penn and Dartmouth -- the latter is a great place if you fit in, and the former is a very comprehensive place. I don't know much about Princeton (I've only one friend who attended) nor Cornell.

***

I am convinced that going to an Ivy just to go to an Ivy isn't a great idea. There are plenty of good schools in the country, and one should try to attend one that's a good fit with one's outlook and trajectory. For instance, my wife thinks she would have liked better a smaller school with more individual attention. I think I would have enjoyed graduate school at Berkeley more, and gotten more out of it, than at Harvard. I am also convinced that many very smart people are at institutions all over the country, many of whom don't see the point of passing up, e.g., the resources of their local schools for the prestige of an Ivy. Such people are not wrong, in my opinion.

There's also no doubt in my mind that what you do at school is more important than what school you attend. Were I presented with a choice between an engaging time at a lessor-known college versus an anonymous experience at an Ivy, I'd pick the experience with traction.

I'm not going to claim the experience can't be rewarding -- I did love my time at Brown. Nor will I claim there isn't status associated with the Ivies, and most of what people have posted here to that end makes sense to me. But I will argue that such status is much less important than a love of learning, a curiousity for the world, and an enthusiasm for sinking your teeth into something worth knowing.

 

[1911]

Quote:

Originally Posted by xbkingx Anyhow, that's my take. Hope it didn't offend anyone, but having experienced both sides of the IL divide, and both industry and academia, I think I've got a decent idea of how it all works. I should also say that none of my friends have had trouble getting jobs (regardless of school), but the ones that went to state schools are earning around $30k less/year compared to higher ranked schools, with the exception of us grad students, who make bupkiss for our labors.

sheesh....30k difference a year is huge when you extrapolate that over a lifetime of earnings..

 

[dwchin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by plus_c Depends on what you're doing. I'm not doing that much better than a state-school grad simply because of the industry I've chosen. My friends in investment banking, on the other hand, are making $60k+ base with the opportunity to make that much again in bonus. For my school, the main benefit in the school's "brand name" is the caliber of employer we attract for on-campus recruiting - Merrill Lynch, Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley, Pepsi, P&G, and the like.

I agree -- That really depends on the industry people go into, and the majors they had while at school. Some majors (and the jobs they lead to) really don't see as much differentiation between the students with the brand-name educations and those without.

 

[JahJahBinks]

It is interesting to see that for many occasions when a foreign president/prime minister/prince/queen/high rank official visit US, he/she will make a speech at Harvard or Yale (I think Harvard has more visits overall), so if you are into politics then Harvard provides you with those which you simply cannot experience without living in the White House.