I've come to the conclusion that Grado RS-1's w/bowls are not bright..
Mar 9, 2006 at 4:12 AM Thread Starter Post #1 of 19

Beagle

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Nope..

Not at all..

Not unless real instruments and live music are bright. Which they are not. And live music is not dull and muted either. So don't believe the "lies" that some other phones tell you. Phones that make music nice and safe and all recordings equal.

Notice when live music is at the right volume, it sounds so real ('cause it is)
and unconstrained ('cause it is), and when it is too loud, it's hard on the ears? Same with the RS-1 w/bowls. Find the right volume for a particular recording and the music ebbs and flows naturally and needs no boost or kick on the volume knob to sound real and possessing energy and soul. Notice it does not sound shut in or veiled. Percussion, cymbals, muted trumpets, brass, violin sound closer to the way they do in real life. There is that natural snap of something happening before you.

I think this is the way it should be.

Mind you, some days you don't want live music, you want to relax. But it's not the truth really. It's just how you want it that particular day.

Opinions?
 
Mar 9, 2006 at 4:17 AM Post #2 of 19

jagorev

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Real music sounds bright when you sit in the front row of the concert hall. The treble is more attenuated when you sit further back.

At most chamber and orchestra performances, I like sitting a dozen rows back, at least. I've tried sitting in the front row, and the high frequencies just dominate everything else. Your attention is so focussed on the treble parts that it's hard to follow the larger structure and form of the piece - you miss the forest for the trees in the front row. Sitting further back gives you a better sense of all the different layers and instruments, rather than just the violin/soprano range.

EDIT: Also, you perceive a wider "soundstage" in real life when you sit further back.
 
Mar 9, 2006 at 4:59 AM Post #3 of 19

Beagle

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Quote:

Originally Posted by jagorev
Sitting further back gives you a better sense of all the different layers and instruments, rather than just the violin/soprano range.

EDIT: Also, you perceive a wider "soundstage" in real life when you sit further back.



Sitting further back just gives you a blend of the sounds of the instruments in the space of the venue with the direct sounds coming from the stage. It's actually a distortion of the original sound. Is there a headphone that just gives you the violin/soprano range? The "soundstage" you perceive further back is the sound of the concert venue from a different perspective.
 
Mar 9, 2006 at 5:01 AM Post #4 of 19

kramer5150

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IMHO Bowls can be too bright with the wrong amp.

Warm tubes (or OP amps) and bowls are the RS1 sweetspot IMHO.

Garrett
 
Mar 9, 2006 at 5:45 AM Post #5 of 19

jagorev

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Beagle
Sitting further back just gives you a blend of the sounds of the instruments in the space of the venue with the direct sounds coming from the stage. It's actually a distortion of the original sound. Is there a headphone that just gives you the violin/soprano range? The "soundstage" you perceive further back is the sound of the concert venue from a different perspective.


I wouldn't call it a distortion. Attenuation is a normal characteristic of sound waves. Treble is attenuated more the further you get from the stage. I really don't think a violin played at concert volume sounds its best to the ear of the violinist. It's better appreciated a little further back, when the treble energy has been dissipated.
 
Mar 9, 2006 at 8:35 PM Post #6 of 19

Beagle

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Of course, accurate reproduction of recordings will (or should) depict the original mic placement. If something has been close-mic'd, and the phone makes the recording sound "distant", then it's not accurately reproducing the recording.

I think everything is attenuated the further you get from the stage, not just the treble. This is obvious because the further away you get, the less loud it is.
 
Mar 9, 2006 at 10:10 PM Post #7 of 19

robm321

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I like Senns
vs
I like Grados

I don't think acuracy would go to the side of the RS-1 : this is coming from someone who has Grado RS-1 and Senns 600 and listens to the RS-1 more.

RS-1 has more detail to my ears, but leans towards the upper frequency with bowls. the Senns roll off some of the high freq, but have a better balance. The RS-1's are faster. The Senns have better soundstage. Buy both and go back and forth like I do.

I've tried to compare and decide which one I wanted to keep and which ones to let go; after months I kept them both. So, they both are different, but I would say the Senns are closer to being accurate.

IMHO
 
Mar 9, 2006 at 10:16 PM Post #8 of 19

KenW

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I tried to like the RS-1's....really I did. Just never could find that "sweet spot" that made 'em click for me. SS, tubes...didn't matter. They just didn't strike my fancy.

Bowls? Hated them with bowls. Flats all the way with the RS-1s for me.
 
Mar 9, 2006 at 10:41 PM Post #9 of 19

wolfen68

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Quote:

Originally Posted by KenW
I tried to like the RS-1's....really I did. Just never could find that "sweet spot" that made 'em click for me. SS, tubes...didn't matter. They just didn't strike my fancy.

Bowls? Hated them with bowls. Flats all the way with the RS-1s for me.



I feel the same. I recently discovered that the RS-2's seem to hit that sweetspot a little better to my ears.
 
Mar 9, 2006 at 11:40 PM Post #10 of 19

jagorev

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Beagle
Of course, accurate reproduction of recordings will (or should) depict the original mic placement. If something has been close-mic'd, and the phone makes the recording sound "distant", then it's not accurately reproducing the recording.

I think everything is attenuated the further you get from the stage, not just the treble. This is obvious because the further away you get, the less loud it is.



Treble is attenuated much more rapidly, for the same reason that alpha particles travel for shorter distances than gamma rays. And our hearing is less sensitive to treble anyway.

I know that, at a concert, I DEFINITELY wouldn't want to be sitting where the mic is. So why would I want that perspective on my headphones? Sennheiser, in the 600 or 650, tries to recreate the natural treble attenuation that takes place in any concert hall, which I think is more realistic than reproducing the original mic placement.
 
Mar 10, 2006 at 1:27 AM Post #11 of 19

Beagle

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Quote:

Originally Posted by jagorev
I know that, at a concert, I DEFINITELY wouldn't want to be sitting where the mic is. So why would I want that perspective on my headphones? Sennheiser, in the 600 or 650, tries to recreate the natural treble attenuation that takes place in any concert hall, which I think is more realistic than reproducing the original mic placement.


Then, as I mentioned previously, it's going to make ALL recordings sound a particular way. Not good. For me anyway.

My original point was regarding high frequencies, and how the RS-1 more accurately describes the tone of a trumpet or cymbal, rather than muting it for niceness' sake.
 
Mar 10, 2006 at 1:43 AM Post #13 of 19

kramer5150

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Quote:

Originally Posted by robm321
I like Senns
vs
I like Grados



I cant say that because I like both
580smile.gif
rs1smile.gif


Garrett
 
Mar 10, 2006 at 1:50 AM Post #14 of 19

jagorev

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Beagle
Then, as I mentioned previously, it's going to make ALL recordings sound a particular way. Not good. For me anyway.

My original point was regarding high frequencies, and how the RS-1 more accurately describes the tone of a trumpet or cymbal, rather than muting it for niceness' sake.



1. A headphone that takes the perspective of the mic placement will also make all recordings sound a particular way, just in the same way as a headphone that place itself at (mic + 20 feet).

2. I played the trumpet. It sounds very strident and harsh to the player (when played loudly), which is why many trumpeters will wear ER-20 or other earplugs. Similarly, banging cymbals together (or standing right next to 'em) isn't a very pleasant experience for your hearing. I would personally prefer to appreciate both instruments from several dozen feet away. Not only is the overall volume attenuated, but the treble is attenuated more rapidly.

It seems the difference is not that one is more realistic than the other, but just that Grado puts you close to the instrument, while the Sennheiser puts you further away. Both bring their constant sound characteristic to all recordings.

If you enjoy sitting close to an intimate violin or piano performance, you might prefer the Grado for that purpose. If you like sitting several rows back in a concert hall, you would probably prefer the Senn presentation. It's all a matter of different tastes rather than accuracy. I enjoy both styles at different times, and would therefore probably appreciate both kinds of headphones.
 
Mar 10, 2006 at 6:45 AM Post #15 of 19

Blitzula

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I can't speak for other instruments, but for rock the bowl pads were too bright in comparison to the many live shows I've attended. They're piercing at times, and live music isn't like that.
 

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