[Sweden]

Anyone know if it's possible to Isone with a smart phone?

 

[crisnee]

   
You can't really compared them, as that would be unfair to both. Redline Monitor is not a HTRF plugin, as it's just a crossfeed, unable to create the illusion of listening to speakers in a room with proper acoustic response in relation to the physiology of our ears. Isone on the other hand, is meant to create the illusion of listening to speakers in a room, with realistic simulation of acoustic response according to the physiology of your ears, and it is also far more feature-rich, able to simulate a wide range of listening spaces, different types of speaker monitors, has extensive presets and allow far more customization.
 
Redline Monitor doesn't change the frequency response because it isn't a HTRF algorithm. If the developers added HTRF feature to Redline Monitor, it would also change the frequency response, because in realistic physics, when soundwave bounces around in room and interacts with the shape of your ears and ear canals, the frequency response will change--that is how reality works. Isone is not trying to screw up the frequency response in any way--it is simply reproducing what the music would sound like in a listening space with realistic acoustic response that interacts with a pair of human ears. It is not a reverb algorithm with crossfeed--it is Head Related Transfer Function coupled with realistic room simulation.

According to the Redline Website
 
" Basically it is a so called 'crossfeed plugin' with a few nifty extra's, that add extra spatiality while keeping the sound as clean as possible. It combines filtering, frequency-dependent delaying, mid/side processing, and room simulation to create a convincing acoustic soundstage that allows you to properly localize sound sources. It also adjusts the relative levels of panned sources as they appear on speakers, and moves the soundstage from an indeterminate location inside your head (with headphones) towards a clearly defined location in front of you.
Now you can accurately judge levels, stereo placement, and overall balance on your favorite set of headphones--anywhere, anytime, and without ear fatigue even after prolonged listening. No more night long headphone sessions that turn out lifeless and with too little reverb and separation on speakers. Redline Monitor makes mixes sound identical on speakers and headphones."
 
So it's definitely much more than a crossfeed, and it better be, as it sells for about $70 while Isone is free. I'm going to try the demo see what it does for me. It better do a lot for $70.
 
Chris
 

 

[Lunatique]

  According to the Redline Website
 
" Basically it is a so called 'crossfeed plugin' with a few nifty extra's, that add extra spatiality while keeping the sound as clean as possible. It combines filtering, frequency-dependent delaying, mid/side processing, and room simulation to create a convincing acoustic soundstage that allows you to properly localize sound sources. It also adjusts the relative levels of panned sources as they appear on speakers, and moves the soundstage from an indeterminate location inside your head (with headphones) towards a clearly defined location in front of you.
Now you can accurately judge levels, stereo placement, and overall balance on your favorite set of headphones--anywhere, anytime, and without ear fatigue even after prolonged listening. No more night long headphone sessions that turn out lifeless and with too little reverb and separation on speakers. Redline Monitor makes mixes sound identical on speakers and headphones."
 
So it's definitely much more than a crossfeed, and it better be, as it sells for about $70 while Isone is free. I'm going to try the demo see what it does for me. It better do a lot for $70.
 
Chris
 

Actually, a proper crossfeed is supposed to do all that. You can't just bleed the left and right channels into each other and call that a proper crossfeed--that would be laughable to anyone who understands DSP processing. Most people in the pro audio community finds Redline Monitor a bit overpriced for what it is. I do like the plugin, but there's just no reason to use it when there's Isone available (unless you don't want the additional features Isone has).
 
BTW, Isone isn't free. It has a trial version, and it is only priced very low because Jeroen Breebaart chose to release the audio plugins he wrote for himself to the public as a generous gesture. If he were to price his plugins according to their actual value, Isone would cost at least twice as much as Redline Monitor. Jeroen has stated that the ToneBoosters plugins are like his hobby, while his day job is doing stuff like spatial audio coding for standards like MPEG-4, MPEG Surround, as well as working for Dolby. Basically, he's a heavyweight audio engineer who coded a lot of the stuff we all use on a daily basis. 
 
And if we're to compare features, Isone is far more impressive:
 

A virtual monitoring setup with adjustable speakers and room acoustic properties – right from your headphones!

 

Description

The perfect listening room… Many have experienced the difficulty to realize a listening environment free of standing waves, undesirable reflections, the perfect reverb time, perfect loudspeaker placement with a flat frequency response, and without any disturbance for others.

With TB Isone, a stereo virtual reproduction system and listening room can now be experienced simply using a high-quality headphones. The frequency response and the directivity pattern of the loudspeakers can be adjusted. Furthermore, the reverb time and volume of the virtual listening room and the distance to the virtual loudspeakers can be fully customized.

TB Isone employs real-time HRTF (head-related transfer function) and BRIR (binaural room impulse response) processing in a flexible VST plugin format. This makes Isone the perfect tool for headphone mixing, binaural room and loudspeaker simulation, and 3D virtual audio processing.

Features

Zero-latency processing, allowing for studio and live operation
Real-time HRTF and BRIR processing
Support of all sampling rates from 22 to 192 kHz
Loudspeaker designer to model frequency response (on axis and 45-degrees off-axis response)
Customizable room (volume, distance, early reflections, diffusion)
Customizable loudspeaker azimuth angle (0 to 45 degrees)
Customizable HRTFs (strength, head size, ear size)
 
 
 
When you compare the pricing and features of Isone with Redline Monitor, it just doesn't make sense to spend the extra money on Redline Monitor. In a way, Redline Monitor is like Isone, but with lots of features missing (Head-Related Transfer Function, Binaural Room Impulse Response with various acoustic spaces, speaker type emulation, extensive presets, etc). If you took away all those extra features of Isone, it would be pretty close to Redline Monitor in terms of sound and function.

 

[crisnee]

  Actually, a proper crossfeed is supposed to do all that. You can't just bleed the left and right channels into each other and call that a proper crossfeed--that would be laughable to anyone who understands DSP processing. Most people in the pro audio community finds Redline Monitor a bit overpriced for what it is. I do like the plugin, but there's just no reason to use it when there's Isone available (unless you don't want the additional features Isone has).
 
BTW, Isone isn't free. It has a trial version, and it is only priced very low because Jeroen Breebaart chose to release the audio plugins he wrote for himself to the public...
 
When you compare the pricing and features of Isone with Redline Monitor, it just doesn't make sense to spend the extra money on Redline Monitor...

 
You can't really have it both ways re Redline Monitor. Even they say they are more than just a crossfeed (note nifty extras, room simulation etc.), which by the way, is the only reason they can begin to try to get away with charging $70. A typical crossfeed is usually included free or at a nominal price, see JRiver MC for instance, which costs $50 for arguably the most extensive PC media player available, crossfeed, peq, room correction, etc. included. A crossfeed is a crossfeed. According to your rational Isone is only a crossfeed too. On the other hand in Redline's lingo Isone would be a crossfeed with more nifty extras than Redline's crossfeed has.
 
Yes, I forgot that Isone cost something (Eur20), even though I own it.
 
As to why people should prefer Isone to Redline. On paper your thoughts make sense and I would certainly try Isone before anything else. The problem is ears and hearing seem to have a mind of their own (so to speak) and just minor differences in design just might make big differences in performance for some. For about 15% of humans (if I remember correctly) the HRTF doesn't work at all or only marginally. So Isone does little for them and they are left to try other stuff in hopes of finding something that helps. And then there seem to be particular headphone and ear interactions and who knows what else that might lead one to look elsewhere.
 
Chris

 

[bogi]

Better than only theoretical discussion is to listen and compare.

As to why people should prefer Isone to Redline.

 
I would not write what people should do. Diferent people may have different preferences.
Better than only theoretical discussion is to listen and compare.
For me RM is better, regardless on smaller number of adjustable controls.

 

[crisnee]

  Better than only theoretical discussion is to listen and compare.
 
I would not write what people should do. Diferent people may have different preferences.
Better than only theoretical discussion is to listen and compare.
For me RM is better, regardless on smaller number of adjustable controls.

I agree 100%  and I'm pretty sure Lunatique does too. I think my English could have been clearer. I did not mean to suggest that one should prefer Isone.
 
Chris

 

[Priidik]

  If I read your information correctly, you are using your Yulong DA8 dac as your headphone amp. I would suggest that it is a wonderful dac but the amp section is not up to what the HD800 can really produce. When your budget permits you may want to explore a separate amp for that setup and then see what you think.

Hey, you were right about the amp. The DA8-s hp amp isn't a good synergy it seems.
Got the HDVA600 and i'm done
I tried to compensate problems in tonality and soundstage with Isone, areas, where the amplifier (DA8) let the phones down.
Still, with some albums the Isone does a great job on bringing the stage in front and gets rid of the panning effects too. 
Isone is like a teacher who needs to set the troubled student straight (recording-->headphones) and its job is way harder if the technicalities are weak (hp-s, dac and amp).

 

[Sweden]

I would love to try this program with TakeT. I have a feeling they could be a match made in heaven just like with the HD800.

 

[dmbr]

Am I using this wrong? It just makes things sound kinda muddy :/

I really prefer my Dolby Headphone config.

 

[JML]

On my Mac, Isone shows many presets with the name "Program" followed by a number.  They're all the same.  A user can create custom presets and save them outside of the supplied list of presets, but you can't delete the supplied presets from within the plug-in component.  I guess these can be modified with "host" applications for audio processing, but other than Audirvana and AudioHijackPro, I don't have any apps that work with the AudioUnits.  
 
With the help of the developer, Jeroen Breebaart, I figured out how to remove the presets I don't want (and can't modify), and then I renamed and reorganized the remaining presets.    First, make sure you have an unmodified copy of the plugin that is kept in another location!  I also zipped a backup of the presets and the text file, keeping it within the plugin's "Resources" folder for added insurance.  You need to use three OS-X utilities (two of which must be downloaded):  TextEdit, XCode, and Onyx.
 
The "TB_Isone_v3.component" has to be opened by selecting "Show Package Contents" from the context menu (right click).  Then open the folders in the package until you see the "Resources" folder, which contains all the presets and a txt file that lists them.  I renamed the preset files in the Finder, and used XCode to change the internal name of each renamed preset (this is a critical step).  Then I edited the "SYFactoryPresets.txt" text file that lists the presets, and matched the renamed presets' names with the list in the text file.  Finally, to make it all work properly, I cleared the AU Cache with Onyx, which restarts the computer afterwards (clearing the cache is necessary).
 
"Cleaning up" the list, and renaming the remaining ones, makes it easier for me to find the related presets.  
 
    

 

[marcoma]

Just signed up to say that this thing is a god send. After a long time I finally feel I've found the right settings.

 

[fmzip]

  Just signed up to say that this thing is a god send. After a long time I finally feel I've found the right settings.

I Agree!
 
I hardly come on here anymore to find new gear. This software helped soo much in finding just the right adjustment my ears were looking for!

 

[marcoma]

Still no sure if I want to use speaker design or just leave it flat. For some albums its better off flat.

 

[Chodi]

  I Agree!
 
I hardly come on here anymore to find new gear. This software helped soo much in finding just the right adjustment my ears were looking for!

Totally agree! It is very difficult to get the right setting but once you do the results are fantastic. Simply the most realistic out of head experience with headphones. 
 

  Still no sure if I want to use speaker design or just leave it flat. For some albums its better off flat.

I have used Isone for so long that I can change the settings on the fly to match the needs of the recording. All recordings are, in the end, the product of the sound engineer who mixed the recording. I have used Isone for a long time and know it so well relative to my own hearing that I can easily decide on first listen to a recording if it can be enhanced using the room setting. I think most who try Isone and give up simply because there are so many settings that it can take months to understand what is best for your personal hearing. That is the key to the magic of Isone. It can be tailored to work in a very personal way with your individual hearing. Once you get Isone locked into your hearing there is no going back.

 

[Alou]

Sorry of this has been mentioned before  but i would like to ask if this plug-in can run in jriver 20 (paid version).
Does it have a VST host ?
 
Thanks