The burn in mith is one that absolutely boogles my mind
For there to be any sort plausible truth to this there would have to be a difference in the before and after measurements of a IEM.
And by differences I mean something in the region of 3 dB .
Now from my experience what happens is that at most there is 1....1.5 dB difference which could be attributes to not exactly the same depth insertion on the coupler....a different tip being used, which by the way I have seen big changes occurring, especially above 7/8 khz
What is likely the most reliable explanation is that our brain becomes accostumed to the sound of the new IEM, something that our brain actually does very well in an attempt to balance things.
Now where I have seen some changes occuring in the bass performance, is in professional speakers and even some home speakers.
However note this difference occurs for several reasons.
One of the most important one is, the stiffness of the suspension in the bass drivers is extremely high , when they are new , and with the high power , high volume usage these bass drivers get , the suspension does acquire extra supelness , making the whole mechanical system of cone and suspension a little more pliable and thus altering the electrical parameters of the driver, leading to a change in sound.
In IEMs the DD drivers are very sensitive and very easy to drive.....no tough as nails surround suspensions , thus no break in period in the world will.change their working parameters and sound.
Again what happens is BRAIN BURN
So to all those people that defend burn in, great believe in it....myself and my 40 years of experience says it's all nonsense and the probability of that happening is 1 in a million.
Given the conviction of some some head-fiers with much longer tenure on here, I am asking myself if this bunr-in is real and my ears are so bad that I cannot hear it or if it is just a religious-placebo-think that some head-fiers enjoy to indulge into..
Thank you for answering ..
Can you describe this? I don't quite understand it. What do you mean by NEO 5? I trust you like it as much as I do. It's my IEM of choice for every listening session. And now that I've purchased FiiO's new flat headphone, the FT1 PRO model (which I love), I find I'm fine for a while. And both are very easy to EQ, only when I need to...
I did not like them much but it was mainly about the tuning and the predominance of the mid-bass over the rest of the bottom spectre. Yet I was a big fan of the H40. My point is I had to test it by myself as I did not get the info from the reviews. Only when real owners shared their impressions it became clear what the tuning was. So this high end ISN I should wait for more infos as the hype train may not transmit the full extends of the tuning choice, defaults and qualities. Too much noises.
The burn in mith is one that absolutely boogles my mind
For there to be any sort plausible truth to this there would have to be a difference in the before and after measurements of a IEM.
And by differences I mean something in the region of 3 dB .
Now from my experience what happens is that at most there is 1....1.5 dB difference which could be attributes to not exactly the same depth insertion on the coupler....a different tip being used, which by the way I have seen big changes occurring, especially above 7/8 khz
What is likely the most reliable explanation is that our brain becomes accostumed to the sound of the new IEM, something that our brain actually does very well in an attempt to balance things.
Now where I have seen some changes occuring in the bass performance, is in professional speakers and even some home speakers.
However note this difference occurs for several reasons.
One of the most important one is, the stiffness of the suspension in the bass drivers is extremely high , when they are new , and with the high power , high volume usage these bass drivers get , the suspension does acquire extra supelness , making the whole mechanical system of cone and suspension a little more pliable and thus altering the electrical parameters of the driver, leading to a change in sound.
In IEMs the DD drivers are very sensitive and very easy to drive.....no tough as nails surround suspensions , thus no break in period in the world will.change their working parameters and sound.
Again what happens is BRAIN BURN
So to all those people that defend burn in, great believe in it....myself and my 40 years of experience says it's all nonsense and the probability of that happening is 1 in a million.
I think in the end you need to spend time listening to a new IEM on its own terms and ask yourself if you are enjoying them or not.
I'm not convinced at all by burn in and if manufacturers are not factoring that time into return windows that probably tells you all you need to know about that.
I think in the end you need to spend time listening to a new IEM on its own terms and ask yourself if you are enjoying them or not.
I'm not convinced at all by burn in and if manufacturers are not factoring that time into return windows that probably tells you all you need to know about that.
From now on before buying an IEM I will look at the terms of a possible return and, if these are not reasonable, I am not going to buy .... simple!
Not that I buy anything just for the sake of trying or returning it but I am NOT going to trust any seller with unrealistic terms! They are not trustworthy and, from my own perspective, not worthy of buying from.
Now that's what I would call a community driven effort!
Thank you @Penon for listening to your community and fans, and also I'm happy that people are giving (maybe) "less known" brands a chance.
On my end, until this year I've never heard of Penon...but thanks to a couple of individual around here I got the learn of their existence, about their work, sub brands, kilobuck products and I jumped on the bandwagon even though I had some reservations...
No regrets so far and I sure hope it's going to stay like that...and just so you know that I put my money where my mouth is (I paid for every single thing out of my pocket and I would do it again), my 1st order ever with them was placed on 08.10.2024 and my last was on 02.12.2024...so far a total of 4 orders, 2 IEMs (Shock and EBC80), cables (Pyramid VIII, ASOS+X, OCC849), PENON Totem Adapter Cable and other accessories - none of which can be considered "cheap", but a really great bang for the buck in terms of price-performance ratio and I 100% stand by that.
Actually Shock was a revelation to me (haven't heard a BCD before), and now EBC80, I think and hope that's building on top of Shock and should bring even more to the table (from the reviews I read so far).
And, as you can see in my signature right now...the future dream is to be able to get my hands someday on Penon's flagship model - THE PENON RIVAL
Penon has been also really responsive (as best as possible) considering the timezone difference, and I've been in contact with them even before placing my 1st order to get my bearings right about shipment options, customs etc.
Everything that I've been able to discover this year in a matter of weeks has been mind-blowing...everything has evolved so much and prices have come down for really awesome gear that otherwise would have costed more than 5x in the previous couple of year.
The community is also thriving and I couldn't be more excited about what's yet to come and they way things are constantly evolving and progressing in the right direction.
It's great to be able to be part of it all, so humble that I can play with all of these toys for which I'm putting in all the hard work
Later edit:
Because of all the evolution in this space, I've actually geared up, and would like to start doing content/reviews on all the audio gear that I've been picking up.
My thoughts are to do it in a video format since I feel like this is easier to be consumed while also doing other chores. I do enjoy reading reviews and posts, but that requires my full attention so...can't multitask
If there isn't already a thread on burn-in I think there should be for both DAPs and IEMs. A place where science and people's experiences can be discussed. I agree it should not be in this thread on a company's product releases. Be nice to put that issue to bed once and for all.
Finally some more of my favourite iems, and this time joined by three new models which have definitely earned that right of passage into my select group.
I'm talking of the ISN Audio EBC80, the TangZu Audio Bajie and the DUNU DK3001Bd
The first two offer a configuration of 4 driver types, DD+BA+EST+BC, with the Tangzu having a monster 14.2mm DD as the star of the show.
As for the Dunu it's 3 driver types, DD+BA+micro Planar.
Price wise we go from 499usf on the Dunu, to 599usd on the Tangzu to 699usd for the ISN.
They are in a nutshell all exceptional in their own way,
The DK3001 has in its clean & detailed musicality, the main feature, the Bajie is a musically smooth muscular presentation seducing us, while the EBC80 grabs you with a sound that has the typical Penon Audio style, old school organic with
21st century cleanliness.
EBC80 is on it's way to me.. Its really strange.... though not an unfamiliar feeling... being at this hobby for some time now.. more like an instinct /sense like I am waiting for the Holy grail of monitors to arrive.... Coming out from what I been reading about them here and there and conversations /chating with people allready got them as well...... Even if I have purchased more expensive sets in the past something inside tells me that this ll turn out to be the one..
I am planning to follow religiously @Dsnuts advice for a continuous 100 hours burn in process at least before any critical listening and soon right after a proper and thorough - detailed review will follow as well...
Fingers crossed till then.....
EBC80 is on it's way to me.. Its really strange.... though not an unfamiliar feeling... being at this hobby for some time now.. more like an instinct /sense like I am waiting for the Holy grail of monitors to arrive.... Coming out from what I been reading about them here and there and conversations /chating with people allready got them as well...... Even if I have purchased more expensive sets in the past something inside tells me that this ll turn out to be the one..
I am planning to follow religiously @Dsnuts advice for a continuous 100 hours burn in process at least before any critical listening and soon right after a proper and thorough - detailed review will follow as well...
Fingera crossed till then.....
We have similar tastes in IEMs. I took the shorter path and got a TSMR Shock and I couldn't be happier. I'm curious what you think of the EBC80 bass quantity and quality. To me, the EST50 bass is perfect, and the Shock is more restrained and refined but still good. The pinpoint imaging and sense of space with the Shock is just amazing. Maybe someday I'll get the EBC80 to compare, but in the meantime I'll be interested in hearing your opinion.
Funny thing about the Shock, it doesn't seem to have garnered a big following and I don't know why. Maybe it's the bright purple color? Or the odd adjustment dials in the shells? In any case, it's a true diamond in the rough for those brave enough.
My 2 pence worth on burn in the Penon Quattro changed dramatically with burn in and as a long time user of IMR ACOUSTICS iems those blighters all changed significantly with burn in. Now burn in doesn't always improve sound Ove has iems that went really wonky with burn in.
Penon are also one of the best companies for customer care I've come across. Always receptive to quality control issues and eager to support if packages hit issues in the post. I genuinely feel that they are leaders when it comes to putting the customer first.
EBC80 is on it's way to me.. Its really strange.... though not an unfamiliar feeling... being at this hobby for some time now.. more like an instinct /sense like I am waiting for the Holy grail of monitors to arrive.... Coming out from what I been reading about them here and there and conversations /chating with people allready got them as well...... Even if I have purchased more expensive sets in the past something inside tells me that this ll turn out to be the one..
I am planning to follow religiously @Dsnuts advice for a continuous 100 hours burn in process at least before any critical listening and soon right after a proper and thorough - detailed review will follow as well...
Fingera crossed till then.....
Don't get your hopes up too much. I know it's very hard to do, but if you temper your expectations some, and the IEM even comes within the ballpark of meeting them, then it's going to be a much sweeter song.
Also yes, follow Ds's rec, and burn them in. The most change you'll notice will be from the bass texture and control. It might come off a little bloomy, or overtly warm OOTB, but after some burn in, it really levels off, appears with more control, and texture. Second will be the soundstage, Once those BCD's settle in, the stage goes from being kinda wonky (which is the word I used to describe it OOTB, which threw some people off lol), to exhibiting fantastic spatial cues, imaging, and instrument spacing. Lastly, I think the treble also gets airier, but that one is quite negligible, but still manifest.
The ISN EBC80 is clearly the best IEM in my rotation, was worth every penny I paid for them, they are indeed a kilobuck IEM in mid-fi clothing, as I like to say, and also, if you have OG JVC Spiral Dot tips, use them. If not, get them. Penon sells them at their store. Perfect synergy sister tips for the ISN EBC80. I use the XINHS K12 silver palladium cable with the EBC80, but if you use any really good cable other than the stock ones provided (they are NOT GOOD), you'll be a step ahead.
ISN EBC80 + Cayin N3 Ultra (Modern Tube mode, No EQ, M Gain, Slow roll off filter) = TOTL performance at mid-fi price.
We have similar tastes in IEMs. I took the shorter path and got a TSMR Shock and I couldn't be happier. I'm curious what you think of the EBC80 bass quantity and quality. To me, the EST50 bass is perfect, and the Shock is more restrained and refined but still good. The pinpoint imaging and sense of space with the Shock is just amazing. Maybe someday I'll get the EBC80 to compare, but in the meantime I'll be interested in hearing your opinion.
Funny thing about the Shock, it doesn't seem to have garnered a big following and I don't know why. Maybe it's the bright purple color? Or the odd adjustment dials in the shells? In any case, it's a true diamond in the rough for those brave enough.
It's a combination of pricing, the toy like aesthetics, the dial colors, and the impressions of the mids. When you take all of that into account, you get an underachiever, even if it is an outstanding IEM, and I have no doubt it is. I don't think the color is what held it back, as there's plenty of IEMs with colors like that, it's the toy like aesthetic that turns people off.
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