Is usb 2.0 able to carry the data to sample 32Bit/768KHz?

[xxrune]

Is usb 2.0 able to carry the data to sample 32Bit/768KHz?

I am thinking about buying a cheap replacement to my M-DAC+ cause it has begun crackling the audio after a Windows 10 update

 

[PurpleAngel]

I'm not the expert, but I would be surprised if USB 2.0 had an issue with 32-bit/768k.

 

[Roseval]

USB in high speed mode has no problems with this bit depth/sample rate.

 

[ClieOS]

It is a simple math question:

CD = 16bit x 44100Hz x 2 (two channels) = 1411200bit/sec = 1.411Mbps

So 32bit x 76800Hz x 2 = 4915200bit/sec = 4.9152Mbps

USB 1.1 Low Speed = 1.5Mbps
USB 1.1 Full Speed = 12Mbps
USB 2.0 = 480Mbps

So an ancient USB 1.1 Low Speed is already capable of fully uncompressed CD quality audio, an equally ancient USB1.1 Full Speed is almost 2.5X faster than what 32/768 needed, while USB2.0 has much higher transfer rate that any audio required, given even DSD512 (1bit x 512 x 48000Hz x 2 channels) only needs just under 50Mbps.

 

[xxrune]

It is a simple math question:

CD = 16bit x 44100Hz x 2 (two channels) = 1411200bit/sec = 1.411Mbps

So 32bit x 76800Hz x 2 = 4915200bit/sec = 4.9152Mbps

USB 1.1 Low Speed = 1.5Mbps
USB 1.1 Full Speed = 12Mbps
USB 2.0 = 480Mbps

So an ancient USB 1.1 Low Speed is already capable of fully uncompressed CD quality audio, an equally ancient USB1.1 Full Speed is almost 2.5X faster than what 32/768 needed, while USB2.0 has much higher transfer rate that any audio required, given even DSD512 (1bit x 512 x 48000Hz x 2 channels) only needs just under 50Mbps.

Thanks for the info ^^ i just wasn't sure cause newer dacs use usb 3.0

 

[ClieOS]

Thanks for the info ^^ i just wasn't sure cause newer dacs use usb 3.0

Many newer USB DAC on the market use USB 3.0 / USB3.1 / Type-C connector purely because most PC / smartphone makers are moving toward that direction in general. However, most of these USB DAC don't actually have a USB3.0 controller chip inside so basically they all run on USB2.0 speed internally - which is of course just fine as far as audio is concerned. It is done so mostly to make physical connection between devices simpler and has no real reason or benefit otherwise (*with very very rare exception that some Type-C devices can benefit from higher power supply from a Type-C connection).

 

[Paul Mohr]

Its my understanding that USB 3 can handle more power. This might be a reason why some devices use it. Especially if they are requiring power from the usb port to power the device. USB 3 can deliever for more data though. However I don't think that is why they are using it since USB 2.0 is already plenty fast enough. USB 3 is awesome for data transfer of files and what not, like for using an external hard drive.

Also USB C is not a usb format. It is simply a connector type.

 

[Roseval]

Also USB C is not a usb format.

Indeed.
It is all about UAC1 and UAC2.
USB Audio Class 1 is from 1998 hence USB1
The standard itself doesn't impose any limitation on sample rate.
Class 1 is tied to USB 1 Full Speed = 12 MHz

Every millisecond a package is send.
Maximum package size is 1024 bytes.

2 channel * 24 bit * 96000 Hz sample rate= 4608000 bits/s or 576 Byte/ms
This fits in the 1024 byte limit.
Any higher popular sample rate e.g. 176 kHz needs 1056 bytes so just in excess of the maximum package size.
This is why 2 channel 24 bit 96 kHz is the limit when using UAC1 even if the PC runs USB2 and/or 3.
It also explains why you needed a third party driver in the past on Win as UAC2 was implemented as late as 2017 in Win10

UAC2 (2009) uses High Speed so you need USB2.
As the data rate of High Speed is 40 times Full Speed, there is no limitation in sample rate.
Even excessive rate like 768 fits in without a problem.

 

[flyte3333]

It is a simple math question:

CD = 16bit x 44100Hz x 2 (two channels) = 1411200bit/sec = 1.411Mbps

So 32bit x 76800Hz x 2 = 4915200bit/sec = 4.9152Mbps

Indeed it is a simple math question.

Your calc here for PCM768kHz is incorrect

By a factor of 10.

 

[tomb]

Are you really going to find music available at 32-bit, 768kHz?

Unfortunately, your experience with your present DAC and Windows 10 is the real issue, not a USB standard. The real question is whether anyone has built a USB interface with drivers that are capable of 32-bit, 768kHz (and that actually work). One of the most advanced USB boards (that actually works) is the Amanero USB and it's still at 32-bit, 384kHz. It's been at that limit for a few years now, so admittedly, there's probably higher available, but do they really work?

 

[flyte3333]

Are you really going to find music available at 32-bit, 768kHz?

There are lots of people using software to upsample to this rate.

And anyway, there are DSD512 recordings which need similar bandwidth

So music availability at 768kHz is not relevant to the original question.

 

[tomb]

There are lots of people using software to upsample to this rate.

And anyway, there are DSD512 recordings which need similar bandwidth

So music availability at 768kHz is not relevant to the original question.

Yes, well - never been a fan of up-sampling.

 

[Jack Berkhout]

It is a simple math question:

CD = 16bit x 44100Hz x 2 (two channels) = 1411200bit/sec = 1.411Mbps

So 32bit x 76800Hz x 2 = 4915200bit/sec = 4.9152Mbps

USB 1.1 Low Speed = 1.5Mbps
USB 1.1 Full Speed = 12Mbps
USB 2.0 = 480Mbps

So an ancient USB 1.1 Low Speed is already capable of fully uncompressed CD quality audio, an equally ancient USB1.1 Full Speed is almost 2.5X faster than what 32/768 needed, while USB2.0 has much higher transfer rate that any audio required, given even DSD512 (1bit x 512 x 48000Hz x 2 channels) only needs just under 50Mbps.

The calculations went wrong and so the conclusions. We were talking about 768kHz, not 76.8kHz, so the bitrate is 49.152Mbps, not 4.9152Mbps.

32-bits * 768kHz * 2 channels = 49.152Mbps

USB 1.1 Low Speed = 1.5Mbps <--- Not supported
USB 1.1 Full Speed = 12Mbps <--- Not supported
USB 2.0 = 480Mbps <--- Supported

 

[Roseval]

Are you really going to find music available at 32-bit, 768kHz?

Yes!!!!!
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...c-we-can-buy-in-768-khz-sampling-rates.29544/
Oh how horrible, it is 24 bit only.

 

[ChrizzSouma]

USB in high speed mode has no problems with this bit depth/sample rate.

That's correct! USB in high-speed mode can easily handle the bit depth and sample rate you're referring to without any issues. High-speed USB offers ample bandwidth for these higher audio formats, so there shouldn't be any limitations on the data transfer. It's always good to double-check that your setup is optimized, but in general, you should be good to go with high-speed USB for those bit depths and sample rates.