[johnwmclean]

I’m thinking of a balanced β22, I currently have a M^3 balanced amp. Has anybody had the opportunity to have listened to these two amps, is there a significant step up in sq between them.
I’m after some impressions, it seems the M^3 balanced is a rarity and haven’t seen it on anyone’s sigs, even over in the DIY sites etc there’s little info if any about this configuration. The amp was built by sft-Audio, it sounds fabulous the sound signature is just perfect for me with the HD650’s - just wanted to know if a β22 could possible be the way forward for my listening pleasure.

 

[FallenAngel]

Yep, you should upgrade.

Beta22 sounds much cleaner than M3 (but I've always found the M3 to be a little too warm unless using AD8610) and the whole opamp thing puts them in different leagues anyway. What PSU are you using for that M3? I'm sure it's not as nice as the Sigma22

 

[johnwmclean]

I’m not a DIY’er but this is what’s inside:

Quad OPA627 opamps
Dual Walt Jung Super Regulator power supplies
Nichicon Muse FX, WIMA, Vishay-Dale RN55
Stepped Attenuator
Bass boost caps are 4 x RIFA PHE426 with a premium bass boost switch.
Silver solder
No discrete capacitors in the signal path
Solid core, high current wiring
Socketed opamps

it’s like spanish to me, pic attached also.

 

[FallenAngel]

Looks like a balanced M3 to me

The OPA627 are nice but very overpriced. I'd stick some AD825's in there instead. The Walt Jung super regulators are also very good. The attenuator looks like a half-decent one off eBay. You can ignore pretty much all of the other specs.

 

[johnwmclean]

Quote:

Originally Posted by FallenAngel /img/forum/go_quote.gif Looks like a balanced M3 to me The OPA627 are nice but very overpriced. I'd stick some AD825's in there instead. The Walt Jung super regulators are also very good. The attenuator looks like a half-decent one off eBay. You can ignore pretty much all of the other specs.

Thanks FallenAngel

But I’m confused, in the first reply you said the M3 was too warm unless using AD8610’s. But this reply is for AD825’s. Is there a reason? Is it because it’s balanced

 

[FallenAngel]

I just like the AD825 more than AD8610. AD8610 can sound harsh and overly bright, AD825 is more fun. I have no doubt that M3 sounds very nice, but I hold the Beta22 in the highest regard (I'm building another one for myself now; balanced this time

).

 

[nikongod]

Quote:

Originally Posted by FallenAngel /img/forum/go_quote.gif and the whole opamp thing puts them in different leagues anyway.

the b22 is a discrete opamp. It is a discrete opamp, which probably gives it an edge, but its an opamp.
Quote:

What PSU are you using for that M3? I'm sure it's not as nice as the Sigma22

upgrade JUST THE psu

The regulators in there now dont look too shabby. Are they young-jung's?

edited:
see what I get for NOT reading. they are jung-PSU's. the jung should be able to run neck and neck with a sigma-22 when the scope jockeys want to race.

 

[johnwmclean]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikongod /img/forum/go_quote.gif Are they young-jung's?

Yeah, there quite young. The amp was built around a year ago. Maybe I should be satisfied with this amp instead of chasing my tail, I don’t want to pay big bucks for a slight edge.

 

[Lil' Knight]

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnwmclean /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yeah, there quite young. The amp was built around a year ago. Maybe I should be satisfied with this amp instead of chasing my tail, I don’t want to pay big bucks for a slight edge.

He was asking if that is the Tangent Young-Jung PSU, not its age, dude

 

[johnwmclean]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lil' Knight /img/forum/go_quote.gif He was asking if that is the Tangent Young-Jung PSU, not its age, dude

I new they’d find me out sooner or later.

Have a laugh at my complete lack of DIY knowledge

 

[MASantos]

I never heard a balanced m3, but I compared amb's m3 and beta22 at the headfest 2007 international meet and the beta22 was a very noticeable improvement. Balanced changes the picture a bit, but I would supose it should sound better as well! If it is worth the $$$ only you will be able to judge!

 

[johnwmclean]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MASantos /img/forum/go_quote.gif I never heard a balanced m3, but I compared amb's m3 and beta22 at the headfest 2007 international meet and the beta22 was a very noticeable improvement. Balanced changes the picture a bit, but I would supose it should sound better as well! If it is worth the $$$ only you will be able to judge!

The build I’m after will be a balanced B22, so the improvements you heard are totally relevant to what I’m looking for. Also under meet conditions improvements heard are usually x2 at home in quite surroundings. Thanks MASantos.

 

[Currawong]

What I want to see someone do is put some single discrete opamps in an M^3 and report back. They are definitely a big improvement over 627s in a DAC.

 

[luvdunhill]

it might be worth taking a look at the measurements of each at amb's site. The data is under "specifications" of each of the amps respective home pages. They tell another story all together... probably worth looking at, IMHO. If you are using low or high impedance headphones, click on the appropriate tests for a better comparison.

 

[cotdt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by luvdunhill /img/forum/go_quote.gif it might be worth taking a look at the measurements of each at amb's site. The data is under "specifications" of each of the amps respective home pages. They tell another story all together... probably worth looking at, IMHO. If you are using low or high impedance headphones, click on the appropriate tests for a better comparison.

I was just pondering on this topic today. Here's a nice article on the subject by Rod Elliot: Amplifier Sound - What Are The Influences?

"Unless we can monitor the difference between input and output at all levels and with normal signal applied, we really don't know what is going on. The usual tests are useful, but cannot predict how an amp will sound. I have heard countless stories about amps that measure up extremely well, but sound "hard and dry", and have no "music" in them."

In any case I personally think that the Beta22 sounds better than the M^3 in very many aspects.