[BobM]

  I don't like these discussions between believers and non believers so I won't post in here anymore. But to the non belivers: have you even tried listening to other cables or did you just look at numbers that don't say everything?

 
I've been an Audiophile and music lover for more years than I care to remember. I've seen oodles and oodles of these threads. Here's the only truth that comes out of them:
 
- nobody is really going to change their mind about what they believe
- the "engineer" types are not going to try anything the "cable-believer" types suggest, including double blind testing
- the "cable-believer" types are not going to provide any proof the "engineers" will accept as true
- both sides have more than enough comebacks and counter-arguments to discredit anything the other side says
- participating in this argument is a complete waste of time (yes, I wasted my time posting this, I'm sure, and someone will still beat me up for it)
 
But the real truth is ...
- if it makes you happy to believe in what you believe, then that is all that really matters

 

[bigshot]

When I was in high school jumping out my bedroom window at night to go out and cause trouble, I figured what my folks didn't know wouldn't hurt them. As long as I was able to keep their heads in the sand like an ostrich, it worked. Unfortunately, my folks were too smart for that and I eventually got caught.
 
I used to believe all kinds of crazy things that I learned from salesmen at Pacific Stereo. As long as I believed them, everything was fine. But unfortunately, I'm too smart for that and eventually I figured out they had been lying to me to sell me things I didn't need.
 
The good thing about getting a wake up call and learning from mistakes is that today I have a lot more fun than I ever did jumping out of my bedroom window because I learned how to live my life, and my stereo sounds a lot better than it used to because I know how to make it actually work well.

 

[mikeaj]

For what it's worth, I've tried all kinds of cable extensions and adapters and did a partial recable of a headphone that was breaking down. Usually it's the low-end where there's more room for things to be bad, right? Or do people say it really requires silver, cryotreating, or whatever else?

 

[bigshot]

The cable on my Sennheiser HD-590s shorted out. I got a replacement cable from Sennheiser for $8. Headphone cables are cheap to make. All of them at all price points should be audibly transparent, unless something is seriously wrong.

 

[White Lotus]

Or unless someone cheeky has popped a few resistors in there

 

[Dark_wizzie]

   
I've been an Audiophile and music lover for more years than I care to remember. I've seen oodles and oodles of these threads. Here's the only truth that comes out of them:
 
- nobody is really going to change their mind about what they believe
- the "engineer" types are not going to try anything the "cable-believer" types suggest, including double blind testing
- the "cable-believer" types are not going to provide any proof the "engineers" will accept as true
- both sides have more than enough comebacks and counter-arguments to discredit anything the other side says
- participating in this argument is a complete waste of time (yes, I wasted my time posting this, I'm sure, and someone will still beat me up for it)
 

That's what casual observers of religious debates say. Oh look, there are two sides and they never agree, therefore both must be equally as valid! ...No.

   
But the real truth is ...
- if it makes you happy to believe in what you believe, then that is all that really matters

Spoken like a true believer (of some faith-based concept). I prefer having my beliefs correlate with reality. If I lived in a world where everything I wanted to believe was true, I'd be a billionaire. But I'm not. So what can I do to make my life suck less? IE, living in reality. And many others, even many other cable believers, agree too. That's why they get into heated debates about cables. If all cable believers' comebacks were "well, IDC if it's true lol", then we'd back off. Yet, cable believers are going to recommend purchases to newbies based on their beliefs. And that is harmful because it spreads misinformation like a virus. Beliefs don't exist in isolation, we don't live in an isolated box where everything we say and do has no consequences.

  The cable on my Sennheiser HD-590s shorted out. I got a replacement cable from Sennheiser for $8. Headphone cables are cheap to make. All of them at all price points should be audibly transparent, unless something is seriously wrong.
 

Last I checked, Sennheiser goes crazy on the price of the HD800 cables... like $300 or something.

 

[bigshot]

I wanted to get a second cable for my Oppo PM-1s. $300? Yeah right! I'm going to cut the little dinky iPod cable that comes with it and extend it to six feet. That's absurd.

 

[Head Injury]

   
- the "cable-believer" types are not going to provide any proof the "engineers" will accept as true
- both sides have more than enough comebacks and counter-arguments to discredit anything the other side says

I'd love for the cable believers to provide proof of anything, or counter-arguments that discredit anything. All I ever hear is "I hear it!"

 

[BobM]

To Dark Wizzie & Head Injury - I guess some people will always remain closed minded and feel justified that their opinions are the only ones that matter. Too bad for you.
 
Good bye.

 

[Dark_wizzie]

  To Dark Wizzie & Head Injury - I guess some people will always remain closed minded and feel justified that their opinions are the only ones that matter. Too bad for you.
 
Good bye.

That sounds awfully fallacious.

Believing in supernatural and other whacko things doesn't make you more open-minded. I recommend watching the video.
 
Similarly, Carl Sagan once said to keep your mind open, but not so open your brain falls out. Being open-minded means being willing to accept new ideas. It doesn't mean I have to accept them without deciding whether there is sufficient reason to believe it.
 
Although, from a non-audiophile point of view, I think we're all losing track of just how increasingly nutty the ideas are getting. A cable. That carries an electrical signal. Changes sound? Monster HDMI cables don't make movies look better and a new DVID cable didn't make Crysis look better while gaming. I want to believe in as many true things as possible and as little false things as possible and I demand that a burden of proof be met for me to accept a proposition.
 
Also, I don't even understand what you're saying with your accusation that I think my opinions are the only ones that matter. Where did you get evidence to make such a statement, and what is your accusation a bad thing (before we even start on whether this is a criticism that applies to me)? If your opinion is that anybody that doesn't agree with you are closed minded and only care about what they think, doesn't that make you closed minded?
 
Don't think your accusations of closed-mindedness and arrogance are unique. They are a dime a dozen from other people who don't have evidence (and may have different opinions than you. So who is correct? There can only be one truth.)

 

[SunshineReggae]

  That's what casual observers of religious debates say. Oh look, there are two sides and they never agree, therefore both must be equally as valid! ...No.
Spoken like a true believer (of some faith-based concept). I prefer having my beliefs correlate with reality. If I lived in a world where everything I wanted to believe was true, I'd be a billionaire. But I'm not. So what can I do to make my life suck less? IE, living in reality. And many others, even many other cable believers, agree too. That's why they get into heated debates about cables. If all cable believers' comebacks were "well, IDC if it's true lol", then we'd back off. Yet, cable believers are going to recommend purchases to newbies based on their beliefs. And that is harmful because it spreads misinformation like a virus. Beliefs don't exist in isolation, we don't live in an isolated box where everything we say and do has no consequences.
Last I checked, Sennheiser goes crazy on the price of the HD800 cables... like $300 or something.

 
I agree totally. I feel the problem with this 'objectivist vs subjectivist' thing is that it accepts reality as both 'sides' being equal. I just don't feel that's the case. I feel that objective people have experienced being a 'subjectivist' to a certain extent, but evolved their understanding to a point where what's real or not is more than just belief.

 

[SunshineReggae]

   
I've been an Audiophile and music lover for more years than I care to remember. I've seen oodles and oodles of these threads. Here's the only truth that comes out of them:
 
 
- the "engineer" types are not going to try anything the "cable-believer" types suggest, including double blind testing

 
I don't think so. I think that objective people have become objective exactly because they put things to the test. But what tends to happen is, as soon as someone say something doesn't "make a difference", they get labeled as being an 'objectivist' and thus the entire argument goes down the drain with it.

 

[bigshot]

  Good bye.

 
Bye Bye! Nice visiting with ya!

 

[blades]

  To Dark Wizzie & Head Injury - I guess some people will always remain closed minded and feel justified that their opinions are the only ones that matter. Too bad for you.
 
Good bye.

 
In my case you are comparing opinion to test results.  Not exactly the same thing.
 
Good bye to you too.

 

[nephilim32]

I will not lose a single minute or blow a single dollar with exotic overpriced cables.  I've had enough cable in my life to know there aren't any differences, and I have better things to do with my audio time. There are so many techniques in audio that are metered and measured, that actually do make a discernible difference, and for much cheaper than exotic cable. What frustrates me the most is that someone new to the hobby picks up the above statement and spends hundreds of dollars, going in circles and burning their patience and their budget. They get an HD6XX for $399 and then spend $200 on a cable when they could have had an amp, another pair of headphones, or 20 CDs. That's a sad thought to me, and it makes me embarrassed to be part of a hobby that often has no qualms getting newbies to spend all their cash in dark, unproven corners of the market.  

Buying a headphone cable that is aftermarket can be really tricky business. It is possible to notice very minor sonic improvements from your sources only if your sources (DAC/AMP) are of high quality, sensitively analytical themselves. Overall we are talking 5-7% if you are lucky. I would never buy expensive headphone cables or interconnects if I had mid-fi gear. I hope know one does this. Huge waste of cash.