Is it legal for Hifiman to refuse their one year warranty?
Oct 6, 2021 at 11:24 PM Post #16 of 42

Dogmatrix

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I am surely open to this idea, but one issue is that the mids because even more recessed when amped. Of course, I don't know if this was a defect of the amp, but maybe even the headphones are defective due to amping causing them to sound worse. The amp was JDS Labs Atom, so it alone, as a function of sound signature, should not be producing weak mids. Regardless, I suppose I am stuck with these headphones now, but I surely won't be supporting Hifiman anymore.
Try running a frequency sweep that will at least pinpoint the trouble
https://www.szynalski.com/tone-generator/
 
Oct 7, 2021 at 12:07 AM Post #17 of 42
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Generally, unless specified, a manufacturer has the right to refuse a return just because a customer doesn't like the sound.

That's why the secondhand resale market exists, to be fair and objective.

To support your point of view however I also understand where you are coming from. My best advice would be resell it and get something you like!
 
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Oct 7, 2021 at 3:09 AM Post #18 of 42

ProtegeManiac

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I am surely open to this idea, but one issue is that the mids because even more recessed when amped. Of course, I don't know if this was a defect of the amp, but maybe even the headphones are defective due to amping causing them to sound worse. The amp was JDS Labs Atom, so it alone, as a function of sound signature, should not be producing weak mids. Regardless, I suppose I am stuck with these headphones now, but I surely won't be supporting Hifiman anymore.

What amp is that, exactly? If the output impedance is high enough it can boost the low end.

Alternately not amping could be what has an issue with impedance and is cutting the low end, so amping it with an amp that won't have an impedance issue will not cut the low end and thus result in the mids being "recessed when amped" but actually you're just losing the low end without that amp.

It could be anything really but personally I still suspect it's more of the dip in the HE400(i)'s midrange response and the Sundara wouldn't fix that much either if what you're used to vs the HE400i is anything that does the exact opposite.

That being said...as much as I'm fine with HiFiMan's response and I think this is a case of "it's not broken, you just don't like it" and they actually don't have to replace it, I still wouldn't buy HiFiMan because of all the complaints for when they wouldn't replace a damaged headphone they actually should replace. And they wouldn't even just sell you the parts, like the drivers, hence why I haven't even bothered replacing my HD600.
 
Oct 9, 2021 at 7:30 AM Post #19 of 42

sennheiserhd485

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Oct 9, 2021 at 7:31 AM Post #20 of 42

sennheiserhd485

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Generally, unless specified, a manufacturer has the right to refuse a return just because a customer doesn't like the sound.

That's why the secondhand resale market exists, to be fair and objective.

To support your point of view however I also understand where you are coming from. My best advice would be resell it and get something you like!
I somewhat feel that I would be reselling a defective product. I can't believe that this is just "how they sound."
 
Oct 9, 2021 at 7:33 AM Post #21 of 42

sennheiserhd485

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What amp is that, exactly? If the output impedance is high enough it can boost the low end.

Alternately not amping could be what has an issue with impedance and is cutting the low end, so amping it with an amp that won't have an impedance issue will not cut the low end and thus result in the mids being "recessed when amped" but actually you're just losing the low end without that amp.

It could be anything really but personally I still suspect it's more of the dip in the HE400(i)'s midrange response and the Sundara wouldn't fix that much either if what you're used to vs the HE400i is anything that does the exact opposite.

That being said...as much as I'm fine with HiFiMan's response and I think this is a case of "it's not broken, you just don't like it" and they actually don't have to replace it, I still wouldn't buy HiFiMan because of all the complaints for when they wouldn't replace a damaged headphone they actually should replace. And they wouldn't even just sell you the parts, like the drivers, hence why I haven't even bothered replacing my HD600.
Thank you. Is it at least possible in theory that a manufacturing defect could cause the mids to sound muffled/recessed?
Here is a link to the amp I used: https://jdslabs.com/product/atom-amp/
 
Oct 9, 2021 at 7:34 AM Post #22 of 42

sennheiserhd485

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Hifiman followed up is now offering to replace the headphone free of charge. I don't know if they came across my two forum posts or what.
 
Oct 9, 2021 at 1:47 PM Post #23 of 42

silent-circuit

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Bet you just about anything the replacement will sound the same.
 
Oct 9, 2021 at 5:46 PM Post #24 of 42

Dogmatrix

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This is cool. So what am I listening for exactly? Is it that the mid frequencies will have less volume than others, or what am I supposed to do?
Start by setting a comfortable level at say 400hz
Sweep back to the start you probably wont hear much below 20hz
Gradually sweep up the scale
Volume should remain stable as frequency rises
Keep in mind the headphone and your ears do have a response curve so some rise and fall is normal
Find a frequency graph for your headphone and what you hear should roughly match up
Abnormal would be
any mismatch between left and right
sudden rise or fall in volume
frequency moving in the wrong direction
obvious distortion
 
Oct 9, 2021 at 8:42 PM Post #25 of 42

jmwant

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The website says: "HIFIMAN warrants to the original purchaser that the product purchased will be free of defects related to manufacturing, parts, materials, and workmanship under normal and accepted use."

I would think that subpar sound should be attributable to ones of these defects, right?
Sound is subjective. You can't claim warranty if you don't like the sound.
 
Oct 10, 2021 at 3:07 AM Post #26 of 42

GREQ

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Sound is subjective.
1633849658825.png
 
Oct 10, 2021 at 5:32 AM Post #27 of 42

ProtegeManiac

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Oct 11, 2021 at 10:52 AM Post #29 of 42

sennheiserhd485

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Start by setting a comfortable level at say 400hz
Sweep back to the start you probably wont hear much below 20hz
Gradually sweep up the scale
Volume should remain stable as frequency rises
Keep in mind the headphone and your ears do have a response curve so some rise and fall is normal
Find a frequency graph for your headphone and what you hear should roughly match up
Abnormal would be
any mismatch between left and right
sudden rise or fall in volume
frequency moving in the wrong direction
obvious distortion
This is great information. Thanks a lot!
 
Oct 11, 2021 at 10:54 AM Post #30 of 42

sennheiserhd485

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Sound is subjective. You can't claim warranty if you don't like the sound.
Obviously I think the headphones are defective due to the mids sounding so bad. It's nothing to do with sound preferences.
 

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