is high detail and resolution possible at low volumes?
Mar 14, 2006 at 10:30 AM Post #16 of 33
Quote:

Originally Posted by davidhw
OK, I've googled this Stax SR-404 headphone, and I must say I've not seen anything like it before. Electrostatic? Hmmm. I'm not up on my technical knowledge. (I should just google "electrostatic".
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I do know a 1.35 micron diaphragm sounds like an expensive heartbreak waiting to happen should an errant finger press too hard.
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Or is not as fragile as it sounds?

I'll do some searches here at Head-Fi for more information on the Stax SR-404. What does it normally go for pricewise in the U.S.?



Electrostats use an electric field to drive a thin membrane. The membrane is charged to a very high voltage and is placed between the plates of a capacitor. There is no voice coil, unlike dynamics, and electrostatics are a push-pull system by definition, while dynamics need to be driven in balanced mode for push-pull operation. They have (usually) faster transient response and more detail, but they also have less bass impact as they can't physically move as much air.

A quick and dirty guide to headphones here:

http://headwize.com/articles/hguide_art.htm

Audiocubes ( www.audiocubes.com ) sells the headphone for $449, but it needs a dedicated electrostatic amplifier. In terms of sound signature, it really needs tubes, so the SRS-4040 system, which AC sells for $1,349 is very much recommended. Yes, it's expensive, but you'll catapult yourself to the near-top of the headphone pile in a hurry. If you don't want to go with the SRM-006ta, you can try the McAlister EA-1 amp. I'm not sure how much Peter McAlister charges for one nowadays since he's updating the design, but this is a very good sounding amp for the money. But, build times on these units are very, very long, since they're all custom-made to your specifications. So, if you're in a hurry, you should go for the Stax amp.

US retailers will sell the system for $200 more. But, you'll get a full warranty for 2 years, and the unit will be pre-set for 110V, as opposed to audiocubes-purchased units, which are Japanese shelf varieties preset to 100V. AC has no warranty coverage, but I think you get a limited warranty from Stax, though you'll have to double-check with AC on that account.

A cheaper alternative, and perhaps better sounding, is the SR-Lambda Pro/SRM-1 Mk II combo. This is a vintage combo and you'll have to ebay it, but it is quite wonderful in it's own right.

Stax headphones need the best of sources to sound good, as they're ultra-revealing. For relatively inexpensive sources, I would suggest a warm sounding, full and PRaT-oriented CD player. Perhaps a Rega Apollo, or something from Linn will be what you need. Also the Apogee Mini-DAC is a very warm unit that will sound great with these headphones. As with any ultra-revealing system, the higher up you go the better the results will be. Just stay away from bright sources with the SR-404.

It's a big investment. But worth it!
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Going vintage will give you the best bang for the buck, though.
 
Mar 14, 2006 at 10:32 AM Post #17 of 33
Quote:

Originally Posted by davidhw
You'll have to explain this "rolling off" concept. I apologize for the ignorance. Do you mean just adjusting the +8KHz "sliders" "down"? (How's that for beginner-speak?)


Yep, exactly.

Quote:

Could such a "rolling off" be done with, say, the EQ on iTunes if I wanted to use my computer as primary source?


Probably, but I'd imagine a separate equalizer would be a lot more accurate and provide you with more options for changing the frequency balance. Sounds like it would definitely be worth a try with a software equalizer though... I don't know how accurate the one in iTunes is, but you can find other software-type equalizers for playback applications like Winamp and Foobar2k.

Seems to me you could save quite a bit of money if the equalization option worked for you... if you can't hear it anyway, why have it hitting your eardrums?
 
Mar 14, 2006 at 10:34 AM Post #18 of 33
Quote:

Originally Posted by davidhw
You'll have to explain this "rolling off" concept. I apologize for the ignorance. Do you mean just adjusting the +8KHz "sliders" "down"? (How's that for beginner-speak?)

Could such a "rolling off" be done with, say, the EQ on iTunes if I wanted to use my computer as primary source?

[on edit: thanks, smeggy. I'll check out your thread.]



"Rolled-off" in audiogeekspeak simply means that as you go higher (or lower) in frequency, you get quieter and quieter until you can no longer hear what is being played. A rolled-off treble means that the upper registers get quieter and quieter the higher up you go. The SR-001 has a soft treble, and to my ears it is missing the very very highest frequencies, but this is a problem that is very common with a lot of hi-fi gear, especially with older/vintage electrostats and many planar magnetic headphones/speakers.

We're probably making the problem sound worse than it is. It's more of a matter of preference, really, since the quiet high end takes the harshness out of a lot of recordings.
 
Mar 14, 2006 at 10:50 AM Post #19 of 33
You're saying that by simply adjusting the EQ (whether separate component or iTunes software) that would probably open up the range of headphones that would work, right? So does this make my original concern about low-volume clarity moot?

[on edit: before I came to this thread, I'd been reading really good things about the Beyerdynamic DT880s for classical music and was encouraged by the reviews; I was however made cautious by some reviewers noting that they were more "fatiguing" than Sennheisers -- which "fatigued" me before. So if the EQ solution would work, I guess the DT880s would be back on the table.)
 
Mar 14, 2006 at 10:59 AM Post #20 of 33
Quote:

Originally Posted by davidhw
You're saying that by simply adjusting the EQ (whether separate component or iTunes software) that would probably open up the range of headphones that would work, right? So does this make my original concern about low-volume clarity moot?


Seems to me it could... *if* the issue is loudness at certain frequencies, and not overall loudness or just air pressure hitting your eardrums. If it's a combination of factors, EQ'ing down the treble (and maybe low bass as well) might at least increase the amount of time you can listen before sonic fatigue or tinnitus sets in. All this is guesswork until you try it, of course
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.

Quote:

[on edit: before I came to this thread, I'd been reading really good things about the Beyerdynamic DT880s for classical music and was encouraged by the reviews; I was however made cautious by some reviewers noting that they were more "fatiguing" than Sennheisers -- which "fatigued" me before. So if the EQ solution would work, I guess the DT880s would be back on the table.)


Probably, but I'd be sure before getting DT880s... they can be fatiguing to anyone at normal volume levels, if you listen long enough. I could listen forever with the HD580, but am limited to a couple hours or so with the DT880 before being forced to take a break. Some people around here who are treble-sensitive can't stand the DT880s at all.
 
Mar 14, 2006 at 11:23 AM Post #21 of 33
Would the Stax SR-003 also need an electrostatic amp like the SR-404? These phones sound like a great option, it's just that I'd like to be able to afford some amplification with it. So, say, the Headroom Micro Stack wouldn't work at all with these types, correct?
 
Mar 14, 2006 at 11:25 AM Post #22 of 33
Quote:

Originally Posted by davidhw
Would the Stax SR-003 also need an electrostatic amp like the SR-404? These phones sound like a great option, it's just that I'd like to be able to afford some amplification with it. So, say, the Headroom Micro Stack wouldn't work at all with these types, correct?


Actually the SR-001 setup comes with a small portable amp (can be used on AC power) although I think the headset can also be used with other Stax amps, with the appropriate adapter. But correct, the Headroom Micro amp wouldn't work (the DAC would, hooked to an amp that drives electrostats).
 
Mar 14, 2006 at 2:45 PM Post #23 of 33
Quote:

Originally Posted by davidhw
You're saying that by simply adjusting the EQ (whether separate component or iTunes software) that would probably open up the range of headphones that would work, right? So does this make my original concern about low-volume clarity moot?

[on edit: before I came to this thread, I'd been reading really good things about the Beyerdynamic DT880s for classical music and was encouraged by the reviews; I was however made cautious by some reviewers noting that they were more "fatiguing" than Sennheisers -- which "fatigued" me before. So if the EQ solution would work, I guess the DT880s would be back on the table.)



with your hearing in the 8khz region, you definately don't want the DT 880's, as they have a treble 'spike' right where your left ear cuts off:

graphCompare.php
 
Mar 14, 2006 at 4:05 PM Post #24 of 33
Maybe a set of these headphones will do it? They claim they cause less hearing damage because they can be played lower and give the apearance of being louder without losing fun-factor. Might be worth a listen,but i think the electrostatic route sounds like a plan as well.

http://www.ultrasone.com/
 
Mar 14, 2006 at 11:47 PM Post #25 of 33
Great information.

Re: the Stax headphones, are there "budget" (e.g., under $500) electrostatic amps that would drive these? I'm getting the impression that electrostatic amps are pretty expensive.
 
Mar 15, 2006 at 12:06 AM Post #27 of 33
the HD580 is a deceptively DANGEROUS can.... in that it BEGS you to just CRANK it to oblivion. It sounds ... "blaah" at lower volumes IMHO. But when you turn it up really loud it really comes to life.

I have no problems listening to my RS1 at whisper quiet volumes amped with either my millet, pimeta, or straight out of my vintage PCDPs. Its very dynamic and energetic, and doesn't need loud volumes to reach dynamic peaks.

I listen at a volume thats just a hair louder than the chanel imbalance point on my amps.

I was also impressd with the low volume dynamics of the DT880 (amped with M^3) and SA5k (amped with dynahi) at the SF meet.

Garrett
 
Mar 15, 2006 at 12:34 AM Post #28 of 33
Ultrasone headphones might be a good solution for you. They have a unique design that is supposed to be easy on the ears:

Quote:

The S-Logic™ Natural Surround Sound System allows an up to 40% lower dB output (3-4 dB) for the same loudness sensation, thereby the risk of hearing defects may be reduced enormously.


 
Mar 15, 2006 at 2:04 AM Post #29 of 33
I added a micro amp to my 580's and get a lot more detail at lower volumes. I have some of your hearing problems.
In fact I was going to send them back before the amplification. I had to turn them up to loud to get the detail I wanted.
I talked to headroom today, and they said a micro dac would also be a big help. I have problems with the in your ear style.
Hope this helps you some.
Jim
 
Mar 15, 2006 at 2:17 AM Post #30 of 33
For maximum detail I would suggest a few things.

1) Put your money into a better source. The front end is crucial in getting more nuanced sound.
2) Get a cheap simple amp like a CMOY, set for low gain, and try to get it with better parts. You want something simple here since you don't listen at a high volume.
3) Get a high res headphone like Sony SA5000. You could also go electrostatic but those would ultimately end up costing more.
 

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