is diy financially worthwhile?

[uzziah]

now, obviously diy is extremely worthwhile in understanding your gear, tweaking it to your preference etc. etc.

what i'm wondering is if personally i'll probablly save money. it's almost an unaskable question because there are so many nice things about being able to build/mod myself, but i'm just thinking.

for expensive components, buying parts is much cheaper; but for me in my budget (needing $100ish head amp and moding emu 0404 potentially; plus some interconnects), wondering if i'll save money.

in the long run, i'm sure i will, which of course is most important. maybe i answered my own question, but i'd appreciate some input

it looks like i can get a basic (read: very basic) kit for soldering etc. for under $75. is this reasonable? or will i be buying crap?

 

[Sycraft]

Kinda depends on what you are making and what you need to buy. Some things, you can buy as cheap or cheaper than you can make. Some things, like headphone amps, tend to be rather expensive and you can build cheaper.

Also depends on what gear you need, you have to factor that in. If you'll be buying a soldering station, good DMM, and so on for one project you'll rpobably discover it's not cheaper.

I built my PPA for cost reasons, but then I work for an electrical and computer engineering department, I have access to any and every tool I could need.

So calculate all the tools in. Also consider teh potential for screwups. If you buy a commercial product, they are gaurenteeing it'll work, and they'll replace it if not. You screw up something DIY, it's your dollar to fix it.

 

[Nospam]

From what I've read, it seems that you probably won't save much money. The problem I see, is the fixed costs of your tools and the desire to keep upgrading them. For example, how many people here have $200+ DMMs?

I've been thinking about getting into DIY for a while, mainly as a new hobby. The main reason I haven't done it yet, is because of the lack of free time. It's also so much more convenient to buy pre-made stuff from other people (yes, I can be lazy sometimes)

Having said all that, I did break down and order a few Dynahi boards, since they were so inexpensive. I may give this a shot sometime next year (although it's been a LONG time since I've built electronic kits, so I'll probably practice building some Mints for family).

 

[00940]

Depends. Price of entry has to be taken into account. You need all the basic stuff. And then you need to make it worthwile. So you slowly begins to build a few amps you don't really need.

If price is really a concern, I would go used with diy designs. PPA, mint, pimeta are easy to buy used here. You usually pay not a lot more than the cost of the parts. Free labour. Like yours, but skilled labour

But of course, with diy, you can do original things. Like to integrate a headamp in your cdp or an usb dac in your gilmore.

 

[av98m2]

If you enjoy the process of building/putting together headamps and other gear, then diy can be a fun and rewarding hobby. However, if you're thinking of getting into diy to save money, forget it. It'll be much cheaper in the long run to buy a good amp from any of the more reputable diyers or manufacturers/sponsors around here and stop there. Some people I know diy their own amps because diy allows them to build some seriously crazy maxed out amps using the best parts available without having to worry about overheads normally incurred by manufacturers(payroll, inventory, taxes, factory costs etc etc etc). I like that approach as opposed to copying/(attempting to reverse-engineer) exisiting designs but using the cheapest parts possible. Even doing it this way can be expensive if you keep attempting new projects, the costs pile up very fast, not to mention the amount of time spent.

 

[thrice]

You might want to step back and view tha larger picture. You wouldn't be posting all these threads asking about DIY stuff if you didn't think you were going to get something more out of it (besides an amp). For me, the costs of DIY are out-weighed by the shear joy and excitement I feel when I turn a new amp on for the first time (an amp I built) and find that it works and sounds great! It's hard to put a dollar amount on that. There's also the enjoyment that comes from learning something new. I don't know a great deal about electronics, but I know more than I did a year ago; and I'm learning more each day.

Will you save money in the long/short run? Well that depends on your level of interest and commitment. But remember, you're not just buying a pile of parts to put together...you're buying the experience of putting those parts together too.

It's an addictive hobby. But you can always play it safe. Don't get the most expensive tools right off the bat. Sure they may wear out and need replacement, but when that happens hopefully you'll know what your level of commitment is. If you're building your own gear so much that you wear out your soldering iron, that might be a good sign that you're ready to invest a little more in your tools (and your hobby).

If you find that your $50 DMM doesn't offer you the kind of measurement accuracy/range that you want...then you might be in for the long haul. If you find yourself ordering the print versions of Mouser/Digikey/Allied/Newark catalogs and spend your free time browsing through them for knobs/pots/switches/leds/caps/wire/jacks/plugs...etc and ignoring your wife when she asks you to please clean out the cat litter because it smells bad and the cats are not happy and the dog is whining to go out and will you please stop playing wih your amps and eat dinner with me for once this week Stev.....uh....yeah...that's when you know you're hooked.

 

[Wodgy]

The only way you'll definitely save money is if you're DIYing cables.

There are also decent arguments for saving money building tube amps and speakers, though these are not so cut and dried. You could easily build a Singlepower clone for a third of what Mikhail is now charging, but he currently has high prices relative to what he sells; you would not likely save money by attempting to duplicate a Chinese tube amp. With speakers, you can buy "better" drivers and crossover components, but you're at a disadvantage with respect to having proper testing gear and Chinese cabinet labor is much cheaper.

For anything else, you probably won't save any money. There are tools to buy. As a DIYer you buy in small quantities and often end up paying five times as much per component as a company that can buy in larger quantities, and ten or twenty times as much as parts sourced from China. DIYers also often feel compelled to buy expensive boutique quality parts when basic ones would often do. (When you're cooking a stew, sometimes expensive ingredients make all the difference, but more often they don't.) You pay multiple shipping charges from multiple vendors for everything you build. Not to mention, it takes a lot of time and effort.

Anyway, saving money is the wrong motivation to get started in DIY. Having the satisfaction of building something yourself, learning something, and tweaking things are all much better reasons to get started.

 

[pabbi1]

Mouser sent me that catalog without me asking... and I only spent 25 minutes flipping through it last night...

Funny, Delta, ToolCrib, and Ryobi did the same thing... yesterday just must have been my day.

 

[raif]

or you can just build a lot of amps.

I got into this because I wanted a ppa for work, dynahi for home,meta for the road, something for the computer, etc. Once I get some free time, I plan on also making amps for friends and stuff.

The added electrical understanding tends to be quite useful around the house too.

 

[james902]

Quote:

Originally Posted by uzziah for expensive components, buying parts is much cheaper; but for me in my budget (needing $100ish head amp and moding emu 0404 potentially; plus some interconnects), wondering if i'll save money. it looks like i can get a basic (read: very basic) kit for soldering etc. for under $75. is this reasonable? or will i be buying crap?

if money is an issue... punt the DIY idea. from what you posted, your money cap lands you with a cmoy and a solder. if you're not going to solder again, then you're paying 100 bucks for a cmoy that can be attained for ~40-50 dollars and a paper weight

i spent 50 bucks on my kit and another 35 for cmoy parts. but then again, i almost had enough parts to to make a second cmoy.

maybe i'll buy enough parts for two mints... hmm.... modified mint... DOH~! i better hide my wallet

 

[AndrewFischer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nospam For example, how many people here have $200+ DMMs?

My Beckman was about that much. But I've had it a really long time.


To answer the other question. DIY is rarely less expensive than mass produced consumer electronics. That high volume stuff can sound quite good.

DIY can be less expensive than low production audiophile gear.

 

[AndrewFischer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by uzziah it looks like i can get a basic (read: very basic) kit for soldering etc. for under $75. is this reasonable? or will i be buying crap?

Reasonable. Just stay away from Radio Shack.

If you invest some time and are patient you can get a good used Weller temp controlled solder station on eBay < $40.00.

Quality Wire cutters and needle nose pliers will set you back another $25.00

Solder

Easy to stay under $75.00 and not buy crap.

If you want a multi meter it will be a little harder to stay in budget and get quality tools. Either get a cheapie or try and get a working Beckman or Fluke off of eBay.

 

[bg4533]

I got into DIY thinking it would be fun and cheap. Fun yes, cheap...far from it. I have spent far more on amp parts and tools then if I had just bought a nice amp. I have learned a lot and enjoyed messing around with stuff, so it has not been been a waste. I am now considering building a few amps to sell to recoup some losses. Everytime I buy things for a project I buy extras just in case something doesn't work or I damage things. Some things I have bought extras of just because the quantity discount was significant and other times I bought things because I forgot I already had them. I currently have the extra resistors, capacitors, opamps, sockets, pots, etc to finish off at least 1 Pimeta, 1 Mint and a few CMOYs.

 

[beamrider]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nospam For example, how many people here have $200+ DMMs?

Fluke 87 III here, but I look at it like this: Barring any "accidents", there's no reason this can't last me a lifetime. Paid well over $200 for it, but it was a wise investment, I think.

 

[aeriyn]

Well, I didn't DIY my PIMETA to save money, really, when I could've bought one that was probably much prettier and neater than mine for the same amount of money I spent on mine (~150USD).

I did it because my dad builds stuff out of wood and he's always got a project going, my friends always have something they are into at the time, my brother has his models. I wanted my own hobby.

And don't think for a minute that woodworking is less expensive than audio DIY. Some of the wood he bought for that blasted workbench was outrageous. @.@

Building amps is kinda more fun than the old, more girly projects I did in my spare time. More expensive, sure, but it's pretty amazing that this thing I made with my own hands sounds pretty darn good.

Now to decide if I want to keep doing it, and/or build something more complex than a PIMETA...