[null]

for some reason with a higher end system, for me sometimes the 'sound' overtakes the music, meaning i can listen to anything and marvel at the quality of sound regardless of the material. like how people will watch, say, "national geographic" on an hdtv simply because they like the image quality not necessarily the content itself. jury's still out whether this is a good or bad thing. i guess you can look at it in multiple ways.

 

[Bencrest]

When I was younger (I mean up until I was about 18), I swore by the Sony 'GROOVE' headphones... the in-ear ones with huge drivers and the small rubber 'plug' that went into the ear. Mega-Bass, or Groove setting, was always on.

At the time, if you handed me a set of K701s say, I'd have probably come out with the same comments in the original post.

Now it's a whole different kettle of fish though. I'd probably like to listen to a similar set for nostalgic purposes, but appreciate the extra insight into music that you only get from proper 'audiophile' gear.

I only got into this hobby because I managed to snap the cable on some closed Toshiba cans, and a friend on the web talked me into a cheap set of NOS Beyer DT431s.

I remember the first day I got them, running them out of a PC... as mad as it sounds, even little things like the 'ding' noises from MSN had me turning around in my chair, wondering where the sound had come from. Took my brain a while to adjust to the fact that sound as clear was possible from headphones

As for people not having 'taste', or 'good taste', because they don't appreciate audiophile gear, at least their wallets are safe from the hobby

 

[channum]

Going back to the original question, it almost has to be an acquired taste because outside of live performances or if you happen to grow up with a friend/relative with an incredible stereo system, where do we get exposed to truly high fidelity music (re)production in our culture?

In our mainstream consciousness we have things like subwoofers on wheels, 100 million plus iBuds that, quite literally are, the best sounding headphones your average person has ever heard, and generations of eardrums that grew up and grew old with FM radio coming out of any old receiver as their main diet of music.

You have to go out of your way and, usually, spend more money than we are accustomed to consider normal for audio gear before you even get a glimpse.

I can remember back in college in the late 80s & early 90s I had a portable Panasonic CD player that I thought sounded bloody incredible with its included "high end" earbuds. I spent hundres of hours sitting around listening to that amazing audio device. Last year I found those high end earbuds in a box I had. Either they've really deteriorated or they weren't so incredible after all. Yet, they were the best I'd heard until that point.

I remember getting my first iPod back in early 2004; even those first gen earbuds blew my mind at the time. I'd never had headphones or earbuds that sounded that good and let me dissolve into the music like that.

Then I got some PX100s, and holy crap, those were even better than what had been the best sound I'd ever heard. Then I got some SR60s. Then I got various Audio Technicas. Then I got an amp and a whole new dimension opened up in some recordings. Then I got some super.fi 5s and found yet another whole new level of audio immersion - and now I'm getting ready to sell some stuff so I can upgrade to triple.fis, and so on and so on. And, yet, I know I've only scratched the surface of how much depth can be plumbed out of the same old music I've been hearing my whole life.

So, yeah, it's an acquired taste. Someone or something has to expose to you to the potential for better sound. Then you just have to open your mind and ears (and wallet

).

 

[Zanth]

I think it is both an acquired taste AND also a bit of effort to listen. For instance, my wife is perfectly happy grooving to an AM radio as she is listening to her SR60's as she is listening to my killer rig. The key is that she does recognize the differences but only because in conversation over the years I have spoken about various aspects of sounds that might escape the casual listener. Noting these, she will point them out while actively listening. She gets a thrill out of it when I agree with her assessments and moreover get really impressed with her ear.

However, ignorance is bliss and folks that don't know that sound CAN sound a certain way simply won't care to get that better sound. Those that either know it from being in many live acts or listening to live acts and/or have trained themselves have both an advantage and a disadvantage in life: they now recognize subpar sound most always and they now lust after the good stuff. Hopefully for those music lovers who like good sound, they can appreciate the AM signal if it has the groove but many simply dismiss it outright, missing the point of the hobby (or at least what many feel is the point or should be - the music).

I have friends who have heard my rig, get red in the face, tear up and or simply let their lower jaw hang about...but then the big question is ALWAYS asked:

"So how much did this cost you?"

Silence.....

I either refrain from answering or I do and they go silent and then express a *shrug* "that's not my bag man...I'd rather spend my money on X Y or Z"

It's like wine, or fine wiskey or cuisine, high thread count clothes, a good car, etc...some things are worth working towards and appreciating while others will always go for the bargain and miss out on what CAN BE.

This isn't snobbery; it is simply a truism. My dad is an interesting example. While growing up, we would always have cheap electronics in the house...cheap tv's, cheap vcr;s and eventually cheap dvds. Certainly neither of my parents were audio or videophiles and although my mother would have purchased higher end stuff (which would equate to mid-fi at best) my dad would have no part of it. Meanwhile over the years we must have bought 5 tvs, 4 vcrs, 6 dvd players...all because the stuff we owned was crap and didnt last. In a word, no appreciation.

The irony? My dad is a semi-pro photographer with his pics having appeared in mags like National Geographic etc...over the years. Guess what? His cameras have ALWAYS been top notch. Back in the mid 80's I remember his camera gear costing well above 15k (lenses included) and my mother commenting on this. To me...get me a great prosumer dlsr and some solid lenses and I'm happy, yet to others nothing but a Hasselblad will do. I'm not one of them. I like taking pics of my kids and doing the odd nature/landscape pic. Otherwise...whatever!

I can recognize great lighting, nice res, a well framed shot etc...I'm just not patient enough or interested enough at this stage to do it myself. So, I have my dslr, my lenses and I crank out gig after gig of shots of my kids, candids...doing their thing. I'm missing out. I know I am, I just don't care enough at this point. Same for so many with audio.

It's about time, money, priorities etc. Some value great sound, some don't. To each his own. In fact, to go back to the days of ignorance would be a love fest for my wallet. Not to mention my OCD.

 

[Nocturnal310]

I am a Wannabe Audiophile..(half way there) and few years back i used to judge headphones by the Lows (Bass REsponse)


But but...now i realise what are Audiophile all about...i.e Achieving the most original sound.

 

[aaron313]

Zanth is correct; people who are capable of recognizing differences between "things" often do not have enough of a passion to invest the money that it takes to afford good "things."

Another idea now:
While I understand why many people like to say that X is 80% of Y, yet Y costs three times what X costs, and then say "but X is not 1/3 as good as Y, it is closer than that" I think the logic here is faulty. It's impossible for X be any % of Y, because X and Y are innately different. It's like saying 4 is 80% of 5, yet 4 could never be 5. SR60 could never be the RS1. Thus, I tend to interpret the issue as follows. If the value you ascribe to the ways in which Y is different from X (which can be interpreted as good or bad things, because some people may prefer the SR60 to RS1 even disregarding price) is equal to the price difference, then you are breaking even in terms of perceived value versus actual value. If you think that the difference between the SR325i and RS1 is worth +$300, then you would have to purchase the RS1 used (~$550) to break even. Otherwise, you would have to take the extra $150 hit to your wallet and rationalize the purchase by saying that the extra enjoyment you get from obtaining the RS1 sooner is worth not waiting for a used pair.

Yes, I suppose you could say that the enjoyment you get from X is 80% that of Y, but that does not mean that X is actually 80% of Y. But anyway, I am not bothered by the % comparisons, I just prefer looking at it differently.

As for acquired taste, it varies. Some say beer is an acquired taste, while some like beer the first time. Some people dislike the K701, but it grows on them. For me it was innate, as far as I can remember. I know what I like, and that usually means my wallet is going to become lighter imminently.

 

[charonme]

I noticed that when I listen to good quality music I don't like on a good quality equipment, I can enjoy it for a limited time. Maybe the non-head-fi-ers could appreciate good equipment if some music they don't particulary like was played to them? I don't know, maybe it's like with sushi.

 

[4ki]

Quote:

Originally Posted by aaron313 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Zanth is correct; people who are capable of recognizing differences between "things" often do not have enough of a passion to invest the money that it takes to afford good "things." Another idea now: While I understand why many people like to say that X is 80% of Y, yet Y costs three times what X costs, and then say "but X is not 1/3 as good as Y, it is closer than that" I think the logic here is faulty. It's impossible for X be any % of Y, because X and Y are innately different. It's like saying 4 is 80% of 5, yet 4 could never be 5. SR60 could never be the RS1. Thus, I tend to interpret the issue as follows. If the value you ascribe to the ways in which Y is different from X (which can be interpreted as good or bad things, because some people may prefer the SR60 to RS1 even disregarding price) is equal to the price difference, then you are breaking even in terms of perceived value versus actual value. If you think that the difference between the SR325i and RS1 is worth +$300, then you would have to purchase the RS1 used (~$550) to break even. Otherwise, you would have to take the extra $150 hit to your wallet and rationalize the purchase by saying that the extra enjoyment you get from obtaining the RS1 sooner is worth not waiting for a used pair. Yes, I suppose you could say that the enjoyment you get from X is 80% that of Y, but that does not mean that X is actually 80% of Y. But anyway, I am not bothered by the % comparisons, I just prefer looking at it differently.

...haha, but in seriousness, that's what we all consider when we're looking for something good enough. Something good enough for us, for the money hard-earned at work. I've justified spending $300+ on audio, but can't say that it will get much better if I keep digging. Same with clothing; knowing the right places is also key in price/performance!

Quote:

As for acquired taste, it varies. Some say beer is an acquired taste, while some like beer the first time. Some people dislike the K701, but it grows on them. For me it was innate, as far as I can remember. I know what I like, and that usually means my wallet is going to become lighter imminently.

A friend of mine mentioned how much I'll save due to my alcohol intolerance, but then I mentioned my hobbies (audio and photography) =\

 

[razer]

Bah, it all boils down to whether are we able to justify our purchase and prioritising our needs and wants. To a sneaker mad collector, probably a pair of iBuds would do. But to audio mad people, probably the same old pair o sneakers would do him justice whereas anything below a pair o ibuds is plain blasphemy!
We can't deny the fact that we feel appalled and shocked that people can't discern or justify why one spends $300 on a pair of headphones because its in us and we all take pride or some form of it in this hobby. I've seen hobbies like laser,torchlight collecting which sounds plain crazy to me but hey, if guy A likes it, then be it! I like collecting cans and in fact, I hardly listen to them at all for now and a pair of iBuds would suffiice since all i want is just music but I still go about buying cans that I like.

And back to the subject on cans. The best headphones/speakers/system in the world is one that can project a note or is of a build and quality that the owner likes and not one that's deemed by online communities as the best overall product. Best is a vry individualised word and its often subjective.

 

[pataburd]

. . . a monetarily acquired taste! : )

 

[channum]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pataburd /img/forum/go_quote.gif . . . a monetarily acquired taste! : )

How much money, though? Although I myself alluded to the money aspect, these last few posts really put emphasis on spending money over simply having an appreciation of getting a better experience from your music.

I feel it's more that the audiophile loves the music enough to spend more relative to their income than the average schmoe. In other words, you can't completely remove the monetary aspect from the definition, but I'm certainly willing to say that anybody who seeks out a pair of Grado SR60s, a pocket dock for their iPod, and a mini-amp has crossed a threshhold that is magnitudes beyond the general public even if their sub $200 set up (minus the player) is a fraction of the cost of just one set of headphones sported by a lot of the people on here, never mind the amp and other associated accessories to drive it.

 

[b0dhi]

Don't forget it's also 60% a pissing contest

 

[channum]

Quote:

Originally Posted by b0dhi /img/forum/go_quote.gif Don't forget it's also 60% a pissing contest

Probably true, but I'm never one for getting piss all over my pants, which may be why I don't quite get the emphasis on "audio bling" over just finding the best audio fit for your budget.

For me, I think I define audiophilia as the constant readjustment for what you consider a reasonable outlay of cash for audio gear whether you yourself actually are the one outlaying the cash. When I got those first SR60s, I couldn't believe I was spending $70 on headphones and was completely amazed there were people with headphones that cost several hundred or even thousands of dollars. When I first heard about UE10s, I felt anyone who would drop that kind of money on earphones was completely certifiable. Now I have to admit to actually crunching the numbers last month to see if there was anyway I could forsee getting UE11s in the next year or so. There wasn't, but I've gone from thinking $900 on earphones is grounds for certification, to thinking, "If I could afford $1150 for those, it'd probably be worth it". That, to me, is the creeping disease, err, acquired taste of audiophile sound.

 

[JMCIII]

Learning to appreciate good, quality sound is very definitely an accquired art. BUT, only for those who are willing to learn. A closed mind is a closed mind - I don't care how much time and effort are made to demonstrate the difference between poor sound and good. However, if a person is open to the idea then you have a chance to teach them. It may not take - not everyone is willing to make the commitment to audiophiledom.

Cost, however much we would like it not to - matters, especially today.Many that DO hear a difference are not either prepared or willing to make the investment. Music just isn't THAT important to them. Hey, that's OK. It never hurts to know when "good enough" really is good enough. But for some, "good enough" isn't - and it's those people we CAN reach, if we try.

And that's the beauty of headphones, it doesn't have to cost a small fortune to join us and enjoy great sound.

 

[pataburd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by channum /img/forum/go_quote.gif How much money, though? Although I myself alluded to the money aspect, these last few posts really put emphasis on spending money over simply having an appreciation of getting a better experience from your music. I feel it's more that the audiophile loves the music enough to spend more relative to their income than the average schmoe. In other words, you can't completely remove the monetary aspect from the definition, but I'm certainly willing to say that anybody who seeks out a pair of Grado SR60s, a pocket dock for their iPod, and a mini-amp has crossed a threshhold that is magnitudes beyond the general public even if their sub $200 set up (minus the player) is a fraction of the cost of just one set of headphones sported by a lot of the people on here, never mind the amp and other associated accessories to drive it.

My post was facetious and yours is probably much nearer the true state of affairs for most of us on these threads. The challenge and the excitement are in configuring a system that sounds good to you, stays within your budgetary constraints and always leaves room for at least a little improvement at the same time. Personally, I have more invested in my headphone set-up right now than in my car. Note: I currently drive a 1993 Geo Prizm with 212,000 miles on it. : )

The snobbery that comes with "having more" probably does infect these Head-Fi forums, but less so (IMHO) than other audiophile sites/circles. It seems like most of the HS's with big bankrolled rigs have, for the most part, arrived there along the same rank and file, trial-and-error experiences as the common man (e.g. they got to the GS1000 after having heard the SR-60 somewhere along the way). In general, though, I think we share a common quest for hi-fidelity. Best "Bang-for-the-Buck" seems to govern the majority of buying decisions here, too.

This site offers, I think, a good sense of personableness and willingness to share experiences/knowledge across "economic borders." That's why I stick around, anyway! : )