[ExacoMvm]

Hello, i've been reading alot of the comments everywhere saying that amp/dac basically give you volume and thats it, while others claim its main purpose as "Quality enhancement" such as better soundstage, better bass, better nuances etc.

But i suppose its somewhere inbetween and yea i know how amps and dacs work, im just lost in these myths and rumors since i've never tried one myself.

So basically here's my situation:
Currently i have HE 4XX, but no AMP or DAC ( i use PC Monitor as AMP since it offer more power and better SQ than onboard sound ). For reference on HD 598 the monitor is around 30% louder than onboard and maybe 10% better SQ ( less cracking, less muddy and better bass control ).

For HE 4XX the difference is alot less, SQ didn't changed but monitor gives mby 15% volume boost.

So probs you're wondering What i mean with this Monitor.. It's basically the same as using the headphone out from some sort of PC Speakers such as Logitech, Creative etc since these speakers has built in amp so same for the monitor, it usually has more power than phones/laptops etc.

tl;dr

Im thinking of buying SMSL M3 or FiiO E10K ( i know 4XX isn't that hard to drive so these should be enough in terms of volume + some room for EQ ).

But what about the SQ ? Is it worth it? Because if its gonna sound same just louder i think there's no point of buying it for almost half of the headphone price ( i can live with slightly less volume ).

Or i can expect like +20% Sound quality? ( For reference 20% would be instantly noticeable but nothing fancy aka besides volume increase totally not worth 60$, 50% would be upgrade and 100% would be WOW factor just like listening HD 800S after HD 598).

P.S. Just for reference to get better idea how good/bad my audio source/power is the 4XX sounds almost the same as HD 598 in terms of sound quality ( its really hard to tell the difference between these two, but 4XX handles some stuff alot better such as bass and some other nuances from mids/highs ). But the volume is drastically higher on 598.


If someone from you owns 4XX would be great if you could disconnect it from AMP/DAC and plug it straight into ur laptop or PC and give me an idea of the differences besides the volume.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Hello, i've been reading alot of the comments everywhere saying that amp/dac basically give you volume and thats it, while others claim its main purpose as "Quality enhancement" such as better soundstage, better bass, better nuances etc.

That depends on what the amp is replacing, the quality of the amp itself, the headphone, and the user.

If the device previously used wasn't being driven to distortion much less clipping, had reasonably good imaging, had low enough output impedance so as not to have damping factor problems or in this case a planar driver that doesn't go out of control as easily as a dynamic driver when the amp circuit driving it has a rather low damping factor, on top of which the listener isn't going to listen much louder that often (or the listening area is a very quiet room), then that reduces the actual and required performance gap to an amplifier.

On top of that a lot of people actually have no idea what imaging is, like everybody raving about "wide soundstage" without taking into account how disproportionate it is, like how they claim the HD6xx series has a narrow soundstage even compared to Grados which position the cymbals waaaaaaaay out to the flanks (that's not a wide soundstage, that's implying that you're listening to a small scale reproduction of the Fantastic Four with Reed Richards on the drums).

Basically, if you're upgrading from something relatively good enough, you'd hear fewer differences and improvements.

If you don't listen louder, ie you've been listening at a level that doesn't stress whatever you've been using anyway, then you'd hear fewer differences since at low volume some devices can have a low enough distortion which is even playing at a low enough volume making that harder to hear in the first place, then you're not likely to hear any improvements other than if the old device or amp has a high output impedance.

Some headphones can have low sensitivity or high impedance, which depending on the amp circuit, can have one cause more problems than the other or both do. A K702 requires more current and low output impedance while an HD600 requires voltage while being less sensitive to relatively high output impedance.

Also if your music doesn't have much in the way of imaging either then even if you put a Focal Stella Utopia in a giant room you're not likely to hear any differences in that area because really there's not much to that the old amp/system/etc was screwing up.

So basically here's my situation:
Currently i have HE 4XX, but no AMP or DAC ( i use PC Monitor as AMP since it offer more power and better SQ than onboard sound ). For reference on HD 598 the monitor is around 30% louder than onboard and maybe 10% better SQ ( less cracking, less muddy and better bass control ).

For HE 4XX the difference is alot less, SQ didn't changed but monitor gives mby 15% volume boost.

If you're still hearing some of that crackling off the monitor then you could potentially eliminate it with a better amp.

I say "potentially" because while that looks like it comes from either of those amp circuits, and a new amp circuit won't have that problem, you'd still have to hook up the amp to the same computer, and the on-board will still be used to feed the amp an analogue signal (although it will be presented with a higher impedance load, ie the amp's input stage). If you use a DAC-HPamp there's no 100% guarantee that it will not pick up noise via USB or SPDIF either. It usually is cleaner, but there's no absolutely sure way to know even if somebody else used the same DAC-HPamp with the same motherboard.

Im thinking of buying SMSL M3 or FiiO E10K ( i know 4XX isn't that hard to drive so these should be enough in terms of volume + some room for EQ ).

But what about the SQ ? Is it worth it? Because if its gonna sound same just louder i think there's no point of buying it for almost half of the headphone price ( i can live with slightly less volume ).

Or i can expect like +20% Sound quality? ( For reference 20% would be instantly noticeable but nothing fancy aka besides volume increase totally not worth 60$, 50% would be upgrade and 100% would be WOW factor just like listening HD 800S after HD 598).

If you want to eliminate the noise then maybe try either of those. Otherwise don't expect it to sound much different, even on the E10K.

You could get more refinement and control, especially at louder output, on something like a Schiit Asgard2, but that also costs more and you'd need a DAC as it doesn't have one built in.

 

[ExacoMvm]

So as i understand i would get the volume from amp/dac but the SQ would not improve.
So in such case would not it better to just buy some $20 Amp/DAC combo from china? Cause technically it would do 1:1 job just for alot cheaper. But as everyone says buying anything thats below E10K quality is throwing money away.

P.S. I do not have noise, but in audio tests there's cracking etc due to not enough power.

For example in Kick 6 the sound is kinda stuttering+has some sort of static to it and at the end it makes some sort of "static fart". But when i reduce the volume it runs smooth. It was also same on HD 598 when using onboard, but when plugged the monitor it solved the issue ( since 598 is alot easier to drive imo ).


On another hand what gear i would need for lowest budget possible to increase soundstage/imaging/detail and completely get rid of the "power bottleneck" ? First thing that comes to mind is O2+ODAC but its damn expensive. It's like buying 500$ used car and placing 5000$ rims on it.

 

[PurpleAngel]

So as i understand i would get the volume from amp/dac but the SQ would not improve.
So in such case would not it better to just buy some $20 Amp/DAC combo from china? Cause technically it would do 1:1 job just for alot cheaper. But as everyone says buying anything thats below E10K quality is throwing money away.
P.S. I do not have noise, but in audio tests there's cracking etc due to not enough power.
For example in Kick 6 the sound is kinda stuttering+has some sort of static to it and at the end it makes some sort of "static fart". But when i reduce the volume it runs smooth. It was also same on HD 598 when using onboard, but when plugged the monitor it solved the issue ( since 598 is alot easier to drive imo ).
On another hand what gear i would need for lowest budget possible to increase soundstage/imaging/detail and completely get rid of the "power bottleneck" ? First thing that comes to mind is O2+ODAC but its damn expensive. It's like buying 500$ used car and placing 5000$ rims on it.

The Creative Labs Sound Blaster Z sound card makes a good low cost (buy used, $70) DAC and headphone amplifier.
Plus it comes with SBX Headphone surround sound.

 

[ExacoMvm]

The Creative Labs Sound Blaster Z sound card makes a good low cost (buy used, $70) DAC and headphone amplifier.
Plus it comes with SBX Headphone surround sound.

Can't use PCI card, there's no room left + i need volume knob, also surround sound is useless, i've listened to few demos and it just makes things worse, for example object falls like 5meters away and i hear it like 50 meters away while w/o surround it sounds alot more accurate and still has the 3D sound. But surround can be fun feature to have.

 

[PurpleAngel]

Can't use PCI card, there's no room left + i need volume knob, also surround sound is useless, i've listened to few demos and it just makes things worse, for example object falls like 5meters away and i hear it like 50 meters away while w/o surround it sounds alot more accurate and still has the 3D sound. But surround can be fun feature to have.

I would try and talk you into the FiiO Q1 MK II
It's DAC function should be better then whatever DAC chip is built into the PC monitor.
How much improvement, can't say, real world might be minor improvement.
To me it would be worth it.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

So as i understand i would get the volume from amp/dac but the SQ would not improve.

Uh...what I basically said, if I distilled it all down and removed details as to how that can be, was "it depends." If you're starting with an LG Vx0 and certain headphones or you have speakers driven by something like a Cayin CS55a looking to get an HD600, the differences with something like a Schiit Magni can be minimal; any other case, likely not.

So in such case would not it better to just buy some $20 Amp/DAC combo from china? Cause technically it would do 1:1 job just for alot cheaper. But as everyone says buying anything thats below E10K quality is throwing money away.

Most of those USB thumb drive size devices are basically the same kind of integrated audio chip as on mainstream devices, ie, a DAC chip with an output stage that has the kind of output as an amp, just with a lot less power. In some applications like a smartphone vs such a DAC-HPamp on a computer, you might get more power than what you would get on a smartphone since it isn't restricted by software designed to make the manufacturers look good in mainstream user tests, ie, battery life during media playback; in some cases , maybe even more power than a laptop or some motherboards. In most cases even if that were so chances are you'd still get a lot lower distortion and noise on a more proper circuit as off a good smartphone. That's kind of like having a problem with overtaking big rigs on the highway then trading your Camry for a Camry with a cold air intake, headers, and coffee cans for exhaust. Sure, it has more power, but then it sounds like somebody is using double pedals on literal drums (as in liquid tanks, not the percussion instrument), except in cars just modifying your own car will make sense because as much as the scale of price ratio can be roughly the same, ie from $60 amp to $300 amp and going from a $25,000 midsize to a proper $125,000 high performance sport sedan, you can more easily save $300 for an amp or $500 for the Cary performance parts (just avoid the coffee can exhausts) than plunking down a deposit for a Tesla Model S or an Audi RS6.

Even in some larger form factors as much as they'd be more traditional amp circuits than an integrated chip chances are even with all that power if at least only into 32ohms there's still some distortion, maybe even noise. Obviously you can't expect the kind of inaudible noise floor even at full tilt that you can get out of, say, an O2 or Meier amp, but the ones that come close to even just the Magni are a bit rare. If you're trying to save money getting one that's more sure to do the job properly can be more cost effective than gambling on several cheaper items that can't.

On top of which, part of what makes the difference with an amp isn't just the distortion and noise, but how much power they have vs how little noise and distortion there is. Psychologically, louder tends to sound better (until the point where it hurts anyway), but if you can't get that much louder, and especially on a comparatively low sensitivity headphone like the HE4XX at 93dB/1mW (that is not literally 93dB at your eardrums with just 1mW since gain is also a factor), you're going to need a fair bit more power and current, and the latter isn't something that USB- and battery-powered devices tend to not be capable of delivering.

Of course, if all you want is to remove the noise, then sure, might as well get an E10K, but again that is not an absolute guarantee that you won't get electronic noise another way (like dirty USB power).

P.S. I do not have noise, but in audio tests there's cracking etc due to not enough power.

For example in Kick 6 the sound is kinda stuttering+has some sort of static to it and at the end it makes some sort of "static fart". But when i reduce the volume it runs smooth. It was also same on HD 598 when using onboard, but when plugged the monitor it solved the issue ( since 598 is alot easier to drive imo ).

Is it crackling like static or is it crackling like the drivers are going to get torn apart while bass notes seem hard-pressed and accompanied by a "thwack" sound?

Because the first one is just noise. Just because it increases with the volume knob movement does not mean it is because of lack of power, it's just that on a bad circuit it will pile on more noise and distortion as you pile on more power. It's like how much worse the fuel economy and emissions get if you're hammering some old, badly maintained muscle car while the tyres keep sliding around.

The second is what is caused by lack of power. if this is what you're getting, you're going to need a lot more than just clean power, especially if you want to listen a fair bit louder than you are now. Your'e going to need an amp with much lower distortion and noise while kicking out a lot more power, somewhere along the lines of 512mW per channel, 0.001% THD, 96dB SNR.

On another hand what gear i would need for lowest budget possible to increase soundstage/imaging/detail and completely get rid of the "power bottleneck" ? First thing that comes to mind is O2+ODAC but its damn expensive. It's like buying 500$ used car and placing 5000$ rims on it.

You're going to need at least the O2.

Also just because the HE4XX is $150 does not mean it's like a $500 busted up junk heap and just putting $5,000 rims. The HE400 and HE400i MSRP was $399 and $499. It's more like you're getting a warehouse sale discount than a busted heap of parts.

Price also is not a determinant of what kind of amp you should use, unlike sensitivity, impedance, etc.

And while we're on the car analogy...you're thinking of just a busted jalopy with fancy rims, as opposed to Brian O'Connor hauling a busted Supra to Dominic Toretto's shop. They didn't just slap on expensive rims to that thing, they repaired and got it faster than a $200,000 Ferrari (in a straight line at least). Getting a Massdrop edition of an older headphone would be even more like if Toyota suddenly went bankrupt at the time the Supra was in production, you bought the Supra at low auction prices (ie collectors aren't fighting each other to snatch them up) which then left you a chunk more change to modify the car so you can smoke an F355.

Here's another way to look at it. The Fujiwara FKM gyuto is on Massdrop now for $65, but because that knife only costs $65 as opposed to its actual MSRP of a little over $100 - which isn't anything like a "real" knife like the Masamoto KS with a street price of over $300 - I wouldn't cut $50/kg tuna or salmon much less $100/kg beef because that would be like putting $5000 rims on a $500 used car. In reality, I do have a carbon steel (ie, very hard blade, rusts without any effort so I keep on wiping it dry), single bevel knife that I got from a Japanese thrift store for $25 and I cut some $35/kg sockeye and $35/kg US prime steaks last night at my friend's birthday BBQ.

 

[ExacoMvm]

bump / is

I would try and talk you into the FiiO Q1 MK II
It's DAC function should be better then whatever DAC chip is built into the PC monitor.
How much improvement, can't say, real world might be minor improvement.
To me it would be worth it.

I just ordered E10K a sec ago, hopefully that will do the job, the hardware bass boost is pretty attractive feature since i tend to switch my bass boost EQ on/off.

Btw i got some FLAC/Vinyl rip collection, i've noticed that in some songs of same album with 4XX sounds crystal clear where others is somewhat noisy, thats because of poor mixing or not enough power?

For example Linkin Park - Invisible sounds pretty clear and decent but Linkin Park - Talking to Myself is pretty noisy and not so defined/detailed as the Invisible.

 

[ExacoMvm]

Is it crackling like static or is it crackling like the drivers are going to get torn apart while bass notes seem hard-pressed and accompanied by a "thwack" sound?

Because the first one is just noise. Just because it increases with the volume knob movement does not mean it is because of lack of power, it's just that on a bad circuit it will pile on more noise and distortion as you pile on more power. It's like how much worse the fuel economy and emissions get if you're hammering some old, badly maintained muscle car while the tyres keep sliding around.

Its like the bass is ok, it has punch etc but on top is that static that reminds vinyl dust and on the end the split second its like searching for radio signal on some oldschool radio ( sounds electric but not the regular static ).

Similar cracking/noise comes and goes away at random hz ranges.

But something like this has none of that effect.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

I just ordered E10K a sec ago, hopefully that will do the job, the hardware bass boost is pretty attractive feature since i tend to switch my bass boost EQ on/off.

If you're going to use computer or smartphone and not, say, LP or CD, hardware bass boost isn't all that good compared to software EQ that you can tweak depending on what exactly you need to boost on the headphone, as well as cut. For example, you can set a low shelf boost to everything below 80hz, then set a high shelf cut to at 3500hz. That way instead of boosting the bass and get closer to overexcursion you just make it more audible by reducing another range of frequencies.

Btw i got some FLAC/Vinyl rip collection, i've noticed that in some songs of same album with 4XX sounds crystal clear where others is somewhat noisy, thats because of poor mixing or not enough power?

For example Linkin Park - Invisible sounds pretty clear and decent but Linkin Park - Talking to Myself is pretty noisy and not so defined/detailed as the Invisible.

Its like the bass is ok, it has punch etc but on top is that static that reminds vinyl dust and on the end the split second its like searching for radio signal on some oldschool radio ( sounds electric but not the regular static ).

If that's from a vinyl rip are you sure it's due to your hardware and not an artifact from the ripping process, which unlike error checking on optical drives, now involves an analogue source and an ADC.

Not to mention if it actually sounds like the needle getting obstructed and it came from material that actually did use a needle to read....

 

[PurpleAngel]

bump / is
I just ordered E10K a sec ago, hopefully that will do the job, the hardware bass boost is pretty attractive feature since i tend to switch my bass boost EQ on/off.
Btw i got some FLAC/Vinyl rip collection, i've noticed that in some songs of same album with 4XX sounds crystal clear where others is somewhat noisy, thats because of poor mixing or not enough power?
For example Linkin Park - Invisible sounds pretty clear and decent but Linkin Park - Talking to Myself is pretty noisy and not so defined/detailed as the Invisible.

When you start using better headphones (HE4XX) and DACs, imperfections in poorer recording start to get noticed.
As some of the songs sound good, I really doubt it's a power issue.

Supplying power to headphones (voltage) is cheap and easy, supplying power to headphones in the correct way costs more.
While I do not think the the noise issue is power related, hopefully the E10K will supply power better to the headphones, then the headphone jack on the PC monitor.

Getting the E10K, over the Q1 MK II is not a big deal.

 

[ExacoMvm]

When you start using better headphones (HE4XX) and DACs, imperfections in poorer recording start to get noticed.
As some of the songs sound good, I really doubt it's a power issue.

Supplying power to headphones (voltage) is cheap and easy, supplying power to headphones in the correct way costs more.
While I do not think the the noise issue is power related, hopefully the E10K will supply power better to the headphones, then the headphone jack on the PC monitor.

Getting the E10K, over the Q1 MK II is not a big deal.

Yeah, but i don't think its imperfections, i think the whole song sound bad or lets say muddy and distant compared to others even if its exactly same quality, i've noticed that youtube has better quality in terms of liveliness / detail compared to these 5000bitrate FLAC's i got, its weird because yesterday it was the opposite and whats also interesting that when i got the 4XX i've tried the Kick #6 and it was smooth. So i suppose they started to burn in and starts to reveal how much they require an amp.

Another interesting thing that on HD 598's i was able to tell differences between 128kbps / 320kbps / WAV on this test, i heard the soundstage differences, noises etc, but with 4XX they all sound same, scored 2/6. While with 598 it was minimum 4/6 and pretty much everytime 5/6 ( not random guessing ).

Guess i will have to wait for the E10K and see how it differs, because im 100% sure that my audio source is complete garbage.

I wanted to upload the two songs so you guys can test, but im afraid its against the forum rules ( pirating ) + its packed into single FLAC file thats 1.5GB for 10 songs.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Yeah, but i don't think its imperfections, i think the whole song sound bad or lets say muddy and distant compared to others even if its exactly same quality, i've noticed that youtube has better quality in terms of liveliness / detail compared to these 5000bitrate FLAC's i got, its weird because yesterday it was the opposite and whats also interesting that when i got the 4XX i've tried the Kick #6 and it was smooth. So i suppose they started to burn in and starts to reveal how much they require an amp.

Could be artifacts or any other errors during the ripping process as well as you getting more acclimatized to the sound.

Also, how would they have the "same quality" if one track is muddy vs another that isn't? Their quality obviously isn't the same. File format and bit rate can be the same, but mastering quality or vinyl ripping quality can vary.

Another interesting thing that on HD 598's i was able to tell differences between 128kbps / 320kbps / WAV on this test, i heard the soundstage differences, noises etc, but with 4XX they all sound same, scored 2/6. While with 598 it was minimum 4/6 and pretty much everytime 5/6 ( not random guessing ).

You could be listening louder on the HD598 which makes differences more noticeable, but since you're effectively listening at a lower level on the HE4XX, it's easier to hear, coupled by the likelihood that there's distortion and noise that you can't pick out but is still otherwise there that are getting in the way of hearing details properly.

Also that, again, it could be the quality of the files.

Guess i will have to wait for the E10K and see how it differs, because im 100% sure that my audio source is complete garbage.

Just note that if your source device is that level of garbage then having it power and send a signal via USB is far from a guarantee that that will solve your problems. Some DAC-HPamps don't even work on some motherboards, which is why some gaming motherboards now have to be advertised to have consistent 5V, minimum 500mA on all USB ports even if all of them have any kind of USB device on them (ie a decent motherboard would be able to power an E10K despite having external platter drives on all other USB sockets that aren't used by the E10K and peripherals).

I wanted to upload the two songs so you guys can test, but im afraid its against the forum rules ( pirating ) + its packed into single FLAC file thats 1.5GB for 10 songs.

How long are those tracks? 150mb per song is a little large. That's larger than Redbook WAV if you consider how a CD can have around 10 tracks and it holds 700mb.

 

[ExacoMvm]

Just note that if your source device is that level of garbage then having it power and send a signal via USB is far from a guarantee that that will solve your problems. Some DAC-HPamps don't even work on some motherboards, which is why some gaming motherboards now have to be advertised to have consistent 5V, minimum 500mA on all USB ports even if all of them have any kind of USB device on them (ie a decent motherboard would be able to power an E10K despite having external platter drives on all other USB sockets that aren't used by the E10K and peripherals).

Well, i am pretty good at PC's but not in Audio theory and i can tell you that once its powered from USB the audio chip or other PC components has nothing to do with it anymore ( thats why its called "Dedicated DAC/AMP" ), so it will be all up to DAC/AMP, the source will come from the E10K in this case, not the PC anymore, the CPU and OS will just give the necessary data for it aka digital signal basically at this point there wont be any difference if i have NASA pc or the cheapest and worst pc on the market ( only the USB signal can be bottleneck but very unlikely since it should be good enough to transfer audio data ).

Could be artifacts or any other errors during the ripping process as well as you getting more acclimatized to the sound.

Well, only Linkin Park knows that, the ripping is professionaly made at its finest i bet without any artifacts, because i cant hear them but if it sounds bad the whole song sounds bad from start to finish so its not artifacts or errors. There's alot higher chance that the problem aka artifacts and other errors are coming from my hardware not the audio files.

How long are those tracks? 150mb per song is a little large. That's larger than Redbook WAV if you consider how a CD can have around 10 tracks and it holds 700mb.

https://i.gyazo.com/b9159b839dfd5650a78f8cd042726113.png Like i've said its around 5k bitrate which is 5x higher than standard And its not from CD/DVD, i've mentioned its Vinyl RIP ( you can hear the needle dust sound which i kinda like )

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Well, i am pretty good at PC's but not in Audio theory and i can tell you that once its powered from USB the audio chip or other PC components has nothing to do with it anymore ( thats why its called "Dedicated DAC/AMP" ), so it will be all up to DAC/AMP, the source will come from the E10K in this case, not the PC anymore, the CPU and OS will just give the necessary data for it aka digital signal basically at this point there wont be any difference if i have NASA pc or the cheapest and worst pc on the market ( only the USB signal can be bottleneck but very unlikely since it should be good enough to transfer audio data ).

What I said has nothing to do with the PC having to do with decoding itself, but USB power. The DAC-HPamps you listed are powered by USB. At minimum they'll need a consistent 5V, 500mA.

Then you yourself reiterated that you think your motherboard is garbage. IF it is that level of garbage, it can have USB power delivery issues, as some older motherboards and even a few current ones have crappy USB power designs that depending on how many other devices are on the other USB ports, can fail to deliver 5V, 500mA (worse if your DAC-HPamp requires more, which is why the Schiit Fulla2 has a separate USB port just for power so you can hook it up to a 1000mA USB charger).

That's like buying a Civic SiR or Type R, then stuffing a shirt into the air intake filter box, starving the engine of oxygen needed to make combustion happen and you'll end up in a car even slower (and more dangerous, if you bought the SiR or Type R for safer overtaking) than a regular Civic.

Well, only Linkin Park knows that, the ripping is professionaly made at its finest i bet without any artifacts, because i cant hear them but if it sounds bad the whole song sounds bad from start to finish so its not artifacts or errors. There's alot higher chance that the problem aka artifacts and other errors are coming from my hardware not the audio files.

Then that can be due to the mastering quality. If it sounds drastically better on some other headphones, it's not automatically, absolutely just your upstream components distorting, but it's also possible that it could be from some luck that some other headphone has a flawed response curve that happens to compliment it.

Just because it's on vinyl does not automatically mean that medium is better or that the mastering is better. Guano Apes came out in SACD but it's not like it sounds better than the CD version, and the vinyl version can still be from the same master copy, and ie, a Loudness War draftee if the CD version is.

https://i.gyazo.com/b9159b839dfd5650a78f8cd042726113.png Like i've said its around 5k bitrate which is 5x higher than standard And its not from CD/DVD, i've mentioned its Vinyl RIP ( you can hear the needle dust sound which i kinda like )

That does not actually clarify anything, just highlighting more problems.

"5k bitrate which is 5X higher than standard" - what standard? Redbook standard at 16bits, 44100hz sampling with 24bit, 96000hz recordings used for mastering, or even DSD at 1bit, 2,884,000hz sampling rate? Regardless of the format the mastering is still more important that what bit depth the final copy is at barring compression ratios on lossy files. Making it larger doesn't help.

Also, vinyl dynamic range is roughly equivalent only to 14bits. That's 2bits lower than Redbook.

Basically, what you're doing is like taking a 12mp camera to take photos then using Paint to resize the photo to fit a billboard. It can't fill in all those stretched pixels, and even DVD upscaling players were only a patch for people to use during the time when 32in became very common at home (since flat panels no longer had that huge arse that made large CRTs impractical) but BluRay vs HD-DVD had not yet been decided. Unlike with music, you could just get a 36mp full frame camera if you needed to print for a billboard, but with music, the theoretical dynamic range increase is often just inaudible if not thrown out by Loudness War mastering protocols that quashed dynamic range, ie why some SACDs actually sucked. Even when they didn't, the analogue output stage of a CDP vs the SACDP playing them had more to do with the differences than the actual, properly mastered copy, since practically almost everybody can't distinguish CD from SACD when played on an SACDP.