[tosehee]

Hi.

Sorry for a newbie question as I couldn't find the answer through the search here.

My question is quite simple, but not sure whether I am thinking this right or not.

Currently I use the Mediagate HD350 (Video/Audio streamer) to play the mp3 musics on my system. The device is hooked to Pioneer Receiver through toslink optical cable.

I am looking into upgrading my current system, and little puzzled as to where I should spend my money on. Hence my questions..

1. Is all toslink same? Meaning, pc toslink -> receiver or DAC = mediagate or any device that can play mp3 -> receiver or DAC?
2. If #1 is true, then why is squeezebox so expensive? I understand the onboard DAc, but if you are using the separate DAC, isn't the DAC in SB useless and the cost ($299) too much for simply streaming the digital bits wirelessly?
3. I have played some mp3 through mediagate device and same musics in Samsung Bluray player (burned with same mp3 bitrate), and I wasn't impressed with the mediagate sound. Is that due to Samsung BD converting to Analog format and sends it through HDMI? Or is Maybe some form of upconversion?

 

[Herandu]

As far as I know, the TOSLINK output is the same in terms of how it works. It is the type of digital signal going through it that can be different (DTS, PCM, etc. ).
You ask a very good question as to why the SB3 costs so much. Based on its technical construction and internal component a price of U$199 or even U$150 would be more realistic.

 

[error401]

1. As far as the interface is concerned, yes. As Herandu says though, there are several ways to use it to transmit audio. In general most devices will use PCM in stereo, which should be supported by pretty much anything.

2. Wireless, media browser, etc. etc. etc. It's a much more complex device, requires software components on both ends, has a nice fairly expensive display and so on. I've also heard that for the price it's a pretty respectable DAC. I would say it's a pretty good deal.

3. Internals of MediaGate aren't obvious, so it could be doing some kind of detrimental processing. The audio clocking could be very bad. Your BD player could be applying some DSP that you think sounds better. Who knows, there are far too many variables.

 

[tosehee]

Thanks for the response.

As you noted, I have no clue what my device is doing.. So, it's kinda hard to make a decision on what I should invest first.

If the device just outputs the digital signal, I was thinking of getting the DAC, but it seems like that I should invest in SB first.

 

[thrice]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herandu /img/forum/go_quote.gif You ask a very good question as to why the SB3 costs so much. Based on its technical construction and internal component a price of U$199 or even U$150 would be more realistic.

How about the advertising cost, employee salaries/healthcare, cost of development, cost of developing the software server program used with the product, website cost and other operating costs needed to run a company.

The cost of a product isn't just based on the components and technical construction.

 

[krmathis]

Yes, TOSLINK is a standardized connector type for optical fiber. Which are identical on all devices using one.

 

[tosehee]

Quote:

Originally Posted by krmathis /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yes, TOSLINK is a standardized connector type for optical fiber. Which are identical on all devices using one.

So, in short, all devices regardless of what they are, if they use the toslink to send the digital bitstream of mp3, aac, or whatever, they are essential same from the recipient's perspective, right?

In that case, I might just use my existing mediagate streamer to play the musics and get an DAC. But then again, I have no clue what or how the mp3s are converted in mediagate.

 

[krmathis]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tosehee /img/forum/go_quote.gif So, in short, all devices regardless of what they are, if they use the toslink to send the digital bitstream of mp3, aac, or whatever, they are essential same from the recipient's perspective, right?

They should be.
Two devices with TOSLINK connectors (one with output and the other one with input) should be able to communicate. Regardless which kind of device it is and who produced it.
Quote:

In that case, I might just use my existing mediagate streamer to play the musics and get an DAC. But then again, I have no clue what or how the mp3s are converted in mediagate.

The MP3 file are first converted to PCM (uncompressed audio data), then converted to an optical signal, before its sent to the output

Its irrelevant for the connection if the files played back are lossy (MP3, AAC, Ogg Vorbis, ...) or lossless (ALAC; FLAC, WavPack, ...).

 

[thread]

So there are not differing qualities of toslink transmitters/receivers in the same way that there are differing qualities of toslink cable? (plastic, glass, ...)

 

[Herandu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by thread /img/forum/go_quote.gif So there are not differing qualities of toslink transmitters/receivers in the same way that there are differing qualities of toslink cable? (plastic, glass, ...)

There are.Some toslink sockets have shutters, whilst others have a removable plug. Some are part metal, whilst others are plastic. The receiving or transmitting lens can be glass or plastic as well.

 

[thread]

Right, so a cheap transmitter/receiver could introduce jitter.

Thus, all optical outs are NOT created equally.

 

[Herandu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by thread /img/forum/go_quote.gif Right, so a cheap transmitter/receiver could introduce jitter. Thus, all optical outs are NOT created equally.

"Created equally" is a big term that can hide many evils. Even if they were created to the same standard they could be performing differently.
Price is also not the judge of performance, so saying a cheap Tx/Rx could introduce jitter does not vindicate a more expensive one.
It helps however to know where certain critical parts in a piece of equipment comes from. I trust CD laser units made in Japan. I avoid the ones coming from China or Singapore, even if they have a Japanese brand name on the box. The failure rate from the Japanese version is lower.
I have had reliability issues with optical sockets from China such as heavy optical cables falling out of the sockets. Or with the shutters springs failing after less than half a dozen insertions. Never had that problem on the ones made in Japan, Korea, Taiwan.

 

[Bizzel]

I keep seeing people claim that the SB3 is a good DAC. That may be true for them but I found it was easily beaten by an old Marantz CD42 player and they're cheap as chips nowadays. Sure, the CDP is nowhere near as versatile as a Squeezebox but for sound quality from the analogue outs it's much better.

 

[Herandu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bizzel /img/forum/go_quote.gif I keep seeing people claim that the SB3 is a good DAC. That may be true for them but I found it was easily beaten by an old Marantz CD42 player and they're cheap as chips nowadays. Sure, the CDP is nowhere near as versatile as a Squeezebox but for sound quality from the analogue outs it's much better.

I went to John Lewis to buy a SB3 but changed my mind after hearing it in the shop. I guess it is versatile in terms of its application, but sound wise my el cheapo Bush DAB radio has a lot more definition. I keep wondering why they don't release a version that has just an optical output, and just abandon the coax out and the internal DAC. It would cost less and find a wider audience I would think.

 

[d-cee]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tosehee /img/forum/go_quote.gif So, in short, all devices regardless of what they are, if they use the toslink to send the digital bitstream of mp3, aac, or whatever, they are essential same from the recipient's perspective, right?

do you mean the data coming from it?

because not all players will output the same digital data from the same CD

eg. some DVD players although they have TOSLINK out re-sample CD audio that is natively 44.1kHz to 48kHz or something else

then there are the TOSLINKs on computer sound cards, and again depending on how they are setup may output something else again

most of the time the DAC that is receiving the signal will accept the signal, but doesn't necessarily mean all the above devices will sound the same