[Jmmmmm]

So I went to best buy today and tested out the iriver h10. I have the iriver ifp-390t and think it sounds better than pretty much anything other mp3 player I have heard. I haven't listened to everything, but I have heard the ipods, rio carbon, zen micro, mpios, etc, and while some are good, none of them have the warm, powerful sound of the iriver, in my opinion. So, I had high expectations for the h10, and was hoping it was finally the harddrive player to replace the 390t. For $279, it better be pretty good too. So was it? Eh...

Looks and feel: I liked the clean styling of the h10. Nothing too crazy, but pretty solid. As for the feel, it was hard to tell while strapped to their display case, but it felt lighter than I expected, almost like it was partially hollow. It didn't feel cheap though. The screen is pretty high quality, with good colors. However, the screen is very narrow. I didn't think it was all that noticeable in pictures, but in person (next to the other players), the screen was certainly smaller, even though it was the same height. Overall, a positive impression though.

User interface: They made the interface a lot more like the ipod's, which is an improvement from the labyrinth that normally greets iriver users. However, they still have a long way to go before their interfaces can be called 'easy' or 'intuitive'. Most things seemed fairly logical, but some features were way out of place. Finding the equalizer took me a little while. You would think it would be in Settings->Sound, but you would be wrong. After using the zen micro for the past two weeks, I found myself wishing it had that interface. The extra buttons of the micro were sorely missed. The trackstrip feels slightly less sensitive than the micro's strip (in a good way). I found myself overshooting my target a little less often. And since you don't select anything with the strip (you have to push the select button on the side), you can't accidentally select things, a not so infrequent occurrence with the micro. Of course this means you have to lift your finger off the strip and push the button, or use two hands. I guess it's a trade off, and I'm not sure which one I prefer.

Sound: So, the biggest factor for me. Did it have the strong full sound of my flash player? In a word, no. Now i'm not an audiophile, so take this as my opinion and that's all. I thought it sounded good, but it was definitely not the same as my flash player. I have not listened to the iriver hard drive players, so I’m not sure which they sound like. If they changed the chip or something, i don't understand why, because I don't think it sounds nearly as good. I was certainly disappointed. Don't get me wrong, it is probably one of the best sounding harddrive players out there. There are about 15 different eq settings, including a (limited) customizable eq and a rather interesting and in-depth SRS wow eq. However, I found most of the eq settings to be poor. Even the rock setting that I use on my 390 lead to very dampened highs. The music sounded like someone put a pillow over the upper midrange and highs. The only eq setting I found that slightly boosted the low end while still having a good sounding high end was actually the SRS wow. Even with the customizeable eq I could not get a very good sound. I only spent about 15 minutes though, so it's possible I missed some things. So, overall, the sound was quite good. The low end didn't have impact I wanted, but there was no distortion at any volume, and it sounded very clear.

Other things: I did not look at the text or photo features, as I have no interest at all in these things. The buttons seemed solid and well laid out. One thing I do not like is that it doesn’t have the standard usb port. It uses a proprietary plug like the ipod, unfortunately. I do not like this at all since I have 50 usb cords laying around, but I would be forced to use the one that came with the iriver.

Overall impression: It has many strengths, but while I think it had real possibility to unseat the ipod, it missed the chance. I will still probably get one because of the sound quality, but I don’t think it is otherwise worth the money, especially over competition like the zen micro and rio carbon.

 

[infiskik]

good to know, i was thinking of a smaller playing, and was actually growing fond of my gf's ipod mini, and the dont like the look of the zen micro.

i dont like the lack of ogg support, honestly who would rather have wma over ogg. stupid microsoft getting its claws into everything.

guess ill give it some more time, rather buy a new set of headphones

 

[supahfreak]

I was wondering about this player, looks really nice.

FreAk

 

[Cyclone]

thanks i was wondering how it sounded and felt. good to know my micro isnt obsolete after this thing comes out.

 

[phatty]

Quote:

Finding the equalizer took me a little while. You would think it would be in Settings->Sound, but you would be wrong.

Actually you'd be correct. The Equalizer is under Settings>Sound on both the U.S. and Korean versions of the player.

Quote:

Sound: So, the biggest factor for me. Did it have the strong full sound of my flash player? In a word, no.

Did you take your E2's with you? or listen through stock buds? . Quote:

There are about 15 different eq settings

30 actually Quote:

Even with the customizeable eq I could not get a very good sound. I only spent about 15 minutes though, so it's possible I missed some things. So, overall, the sound was quite good. The low end didn't have impact I wanted, but there was no distortion at any volume, and it sounded very clear.

Hmmm... so the sound didn't distort, and sounded very clear and was quite good save for some low end "impact" while listening to the unit for 15 minutes in a noisy BestBuy store with god only knows what type of music, encoded by god only knows who, and god only knows at what bitrate. Unfortunately it doesn't sound like a fair assessment of a great sounding player. I'd put it up against a Micro or Carbon any day of the week.

Quote:

Overall impression: It has many strengths, but while I think it had real possibility to unseat the ipod, it missed the chance. I will still probably get one because of the sound quality, but I don’t think it is otherwise worth the money, especially over competition like the zen micro and rio carbon.

Better sound quality everyday of the week than iPod, navigation that is just as easy and definite. Color screen, photo viewing, slideshow, text viewer, removeable battery (Micro only competition there), etc.... puts it right there with every player you listed. Oh yeah, forgot to mention that you can drag and drop music to the player and use file tree mode if you wish (Carbon only competition here). U.S./U.K. versions MTP compliant WinXP/2000 only, Korean/Asian versions UMS compliant WinXP/2000/Mac/Linux.

Folks, better take some more time to give it a fair shake. Not just 15 minutes in a noisy BestBuy with a demo unit.

 

[gloco]

Quote:

Originally Posted by phatty Actually you'd be correct. The Equalizer is under Settings>Sound on both the U.S. and Korean versions of the player. Did you take your E2's with you? or listen through stock buds? . 30 actually Hmmm... so the sound didn't distort, and sounded very clear and was quite good save for some low end "impact" while listening to the unit for 15 minutes in a noisy BestBuy store with god only knows what type of music, encoded by god only knows who, and god only knows at what bitrate. Unfortunately it doesn't sound like a fair assessment of a great sounding player. I'd put it up against a Micro or Carbon any day of the week. Better sound quality everyday of the week than iPod, navigation that is just as easy and definite. Color screen, photo viewing, slideshow, text viewer, removeable battery (Micro only competition there), etc.... puts it right there with every player you listed. Oh yeah, forgot to mention that you can drag and drop music to the player and use file tree mode if you wish (Carbon only competition here). U.S./U.K. versions MTP compliant WinXP/2000 only, Korean/Asian versions UMS compliant WinXP/2000/Mac/Linux. Folks, better take some more time to give it a fair shake. Not just 15 minutes in a noisy BestBuy with a demo unit.

ouch, what a stinging rebuttal. I personally agree with you though. Writing an initial review based in listening in a store is a bad idea.

 

[Jmmmmm]

Quote:

Originally Posted by phatty Actually you'd be correct. The Equalizer is under Settings>Sound on both the U.S. and Korean versions of the player.

if i remember correctly, that is only where you adjust the custom eq or srs wow eq, Not where you select the eq. The only way I could get to selecting an eq setting was by hitting the 'select' button while listening to a song.

Quote:

Originally Posted by phatty Did you take your E2's with you? or listen through stock buds?

i went there to test sound quality, so i used both my ex71s and the e2cs (w/foamies)

Quote:

Originally Posted by phatty 30 actually

good. I didnt count, but there were quite a few. Though i probably would only use one or two, i think it's great that they give so many options. It shows they really want to make people happy with the sound.

Quote:

Originally Posted by phatty Hmmm... so the sound didn't distort, and sounded very clear and was quite good save for some low end "impact" while listening to the unit for 15 minutes in a noisy BestBuy store with god only knows what type of music, encoded by god only knows who, and god only knows at what bitrate. Unfortunately it doesn't sound like a fair assessment of a great sounding player.

Actually it was quite quiet at 10am on a friday, and whatever minimal background noise present was certainly eliminated by my canalphones. The quantity and array of music on the player was pretty impressive, actually. While most players put one or two crappy sample songs, iriver put 10 or 15 (again, I didn't count) songs of various genres to test out. While I was not able to control the bitrate etc, I listened to some of nearly every song, they were not or horrible quality, and I feel that I got a decent impression of the sound. However, that doesn't even matter much because the difference in sound from my 390t was immediately and dramatically evident. The sound was brighter, but as I said, lacking in low-end oomph. It sounded a little more open and perhaps more balanced. I've listened to my iriver with enough songs, at varying bitrates and qualities, to recognize when something sounds different. I'm not saying this is a bad thing; some people may prefer the new sound. However, it did sound different. And as I said, I happen to prefer the sound that I am used to.

Quote:

Originally Posted by phatty I'd put it up against a Micro or Carbon any day of the week.

And I did. They had a Carbon there, which I also A/B'ed with the h10 and my 390t. Unfortunately I didn't have the micro to compare it to, but I've compared the micro and carbon before, and they sound comparable, with the slight edge to the micro, in my opinion. The carbon only had one song, but it was a decent song to test with. I did not think there was noticeable difference between the two players. I don't think this comparison holds much weight though, due to the limited selection and my unfamiliarity with the songs (one reason I didn't mention it). If someone was able to test more solidly, I wouldn't be surprised if h10 sounded a little better than the carbon. I'm can say fairly certainly, though, that neither one would blow the other out of the water. I tried to test with an ipod too, but no songs were loaded. Just as well, they don't sound as good as the carbon anyway(imo, of course).

Quote:

Originally Posted by phatty Better sound quality everyday of the week than iPod, navigation that is just as easy and definite. Color screen, photo viewing, slideshow, text viewer, removeable battery (Micro only competition there), etc.... puts it right there with every player you listed. Oh yeah, forgot to mention that you can drag and drop music to the player and use file tree mode if you wish (Carbon only competition here).

While I think the navigation was fine, I do think the ipods navigation is yet to be beat. The h10's UI may be ok to figure out, but I certainly did not find it nearly as intuitive as the micro's or the ipod's. If you think this is me, then people should go out and test for themselves and make up their own minds. One thing I did not like at all was the lack of a 'now playing' choice. When I went through the menus, I had to sit there for a minute before the song screen would come back, unlike the micro or the ipod where you can just select this to get back to the song (eg. to change the volume). I hope that I just wasn't able to find it, but I fear it is not there. I only used the h10 for a little bit and I was already getting annoyed by its absence. But you are right, all the features do put it right there with all the other players, something I certainly agree with, and is actually my point. It did not put them all to shame. Oh, and both the carbon and the micro (with firmware update) have mtp. The color screen and photo thing are great, and I'm sure it will please a lot of people. But as I said, my main concern was sound quality, since I will be using my mp3 player to listen to music.


I'm sorry you didn't like my review, but as I said, these are only my opinions, and I believe I was fair. I'm not here to bash iriver or the h10, which should be clear since I said I was probably going to get one. If you think the iriver is better than the other players, than by all means, get the h10 instead of them. However, realize that this is just a preference, and other people may feel differently. I stand by my opinion.

 

[phatty]

Quote:

One thing I did not like at all was the lack of a 'now playing' choice. When I went through the menus, I had to sit there for a minute before the song screen would come back, unlike the micro or the ipod where you can just select this to get back to the song (eg. to change the volume). I hope that I just wasn't able to find it

It is there....

hit the play/pause button on the side from wherever you are and you'll be taken to the now playing screen.

I'm not questioning your ability or your motive simply find it hard to understand how an opinion, possibly one that could influence your buying decision could be formed under such casual circumstances, and in such a short amount of time i.e. the lack of properly encoded music, your surroundings, etc... It's important to let users know that Sound Quality is very subjective. No matter how "flat" or "bright" sounding a player is it will sound different to you than it will to me.
Quote:

While I think the navigation was fine, I do think the ipods navigation is yet to be beat. The h10's UI may be ok to figure out, but I certainly did not find it nearly as intuitive as the micro's or the ipod's.

Well, if we're talking music as you've stated then I'm not sure it gets anymore intuitive than Music > Artists > Albums > Genres >Titles > Playlists
Quote:

I'm sorry you didn't like my review, but as I said, these are only my opinions, and I believe I was fair.

I didn't mind your review at all in fact, it was very solid but again, not a clear picture of a great player and as far as unseating the iPod the H10 does that in spades and from every angle. It's the Micro that's in the same league as the H10 with the Carbon a close second and the iPod Mini a distant 3rd.

 

[MdRex]

curious Phatty:

Have you got that player yourself? Or are you just basing your observations on the specs?

dont get me wrong I want that player.

 

[phatty]

Hi Rex,

Yes, i have both a U.S. version and a Korean version of the player. The only differences in the two are slight firmware differences and the fact that the Korean version comes with iRiver Plus which is a music organizing program for ripping, tagging, playing, syncing, etc.... it also has the ability to auto update your firmware on the player and auto update itself. Nice little piece of software.

I just get a bit frustrated with users no matter how experienced they are when they pick up a device, give it a cursory listen and fool about with the navigation for a total of 15-20 minutes and then say that it does not perform as well as another similar player. Folks need to take time with a player, learn its ins/outs, listen to properly encoded song files, try out all the features and then do some side by side comparisons. In the long run though each individual user will have his/her likes and dislikes. That's what makes sound quality comparisons so subjective. Every human ear is so different that you and I could both be listening to the same song, on the same player with the same headphones and rate it differently.

 

[josimcy]

I, too am looking closely at the H10 to purchase, and I couldn't help but notice that the Signal to Noise was 90 while the Zen Micro's is 98. Is there a noticible difference in sound quality between the 2?

 

[phatty]

Quote:

Originally Posted by josimcy I, too am looking closely at the H10 to purchase, and I couldn't help but notice that the Signal to Noise was 90 while the Zen Micro's is 98. Is there a noticible difference in sound quality between the 2?

Again, sound quality is in the ear of the beholder. Of the 4 listed:

iRiver H10
Zen Micro
Carbon
iPod Mini

The H10 and the Micro have the best sound quality with the Carbon a close third and then the Mini bringing up the rear. This is just my opinion and observations though and those choices would vary amongst other users. Creative is known to "fudge" their SNR a bit and I believe if you search here on Head-Fi a bit or did some independant testing with the right equipment you'd find it closer to 90db then 98.

 

[Thanos]

Hey phatty, is it true the screen completely goes out after the backlight is turned off? Also, how is the screen size compared to the micro? I'm really interested in this player and any feedback would be much appreciated.

 

[Jmmmmm]

Quote:

Originally Posted by josimcy I, too am looking closely at the H10 to purchase, and I couldn't help but notice that the Signal to Noise was 90 while the Zen Micro's is 98. Is there a noticible difference in sound quality between the 2?

i wouldnt pay any attention to these claimed s/n ratios, they mean pretty much nothing.

 

[josimcy]

I appreciate everyone's kind advice