[br--]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alick Is thickness the only dimension that matters? Height and width are unimportant?

My post that was being referred to specifically mentioned thickness. Height and width are not unimportant for fitting in a pocket, but are certainly secondary to thickness. My original post and the rebuttal posts were about thickness.

 

[Krishna]

Quote:

Originally Posted by br-- Ok, lets look at the facts. We will be comparing these players to the thinnest iPod with a decent sized hard drive (mini doesn't count). By thickness: 20GB Sony NW-HD1: 0.54" 20GB iAudio M3: 0.56" 20GB 4G iPod: 0.57" 20GB iRiver H120: 0.75" 20GB Samsung YP-910: 0.78" 20GB Zen Touch: 0.87" 20GB Rio Karma: 1.1" The iAudio M3 is not valid here for comparison because to make full use of it, you MUST use the remote. This is extra bulk that the other players do not force you add on. And as for the Sony player, lets take a look at my original statement: Notice I said hard drive MP3 player. The NW-HD1 does not play MP3's. It only plays ATRAC3plus from what I've heard. Yes, you can transcode from MP3 to ATRAC, but that does not make it a genuine MP3 player. Regarding the difference in thickness, I agree this looks quite minor on paper. A 0.75" thick player is percieved to be only marginally larger than a 0.57" player when reading specs of it. When holding it in your hand however, or putting it in your pocket, the size difference becomes quite apparent. This could be the difference between having a player in your pocket that is unnoticeable on a casual glance, and a player in your pocket that looks like a massive, uncomfortable bulge. This is a critical issue for anyone who wears well fitting pants and would not like to have to wrestle with their pocket to put their music player in and out of.

Don't make stupid excuses to prove your point, because frankly it doesn't work. A remote doesn't add bulk and it is actually quite useful. The only reason any one would care about the thickness/size of the player would be because they want to put it in their pocket, or some other enclosed area. By doing so the full controls of the player are gone unless you have a remote with an LCD on it. Of course you could be one of the those IPod sheep who enjoy taking the player out of their pocket to adjust the settings every few minutes, there by scratching the easily scratchable back plate and exposing the player to other accidents that may occur, but I bet most people prefer to keep their players safe and sound in their pockets. Not valid for comparison my arse! Just because the M3 is better than the Ipod in a certain way doesn't mean that you have to make up a stupid excuse to disregard it.

Then the Nw-hd1. You say that you said MP3 player. I don't care what the hell you said, but the fact is that it is smaller than the ipod in every way. Sure I agree that Sony are a bunch of idiots to limit the player to Atrac3 only, but the discussion is not really about file formats, its about the size and possibly even weight. The Nw-hd1 smashes the Ipod, and the M3 even,in these terms.

It must be admitted that the Ipod does have the a nice average of all the features, but in terms of size it has been beat, and no longer remains undisputed.

 

[GSTom1]

I believe br-- was referring to the fact that with the iAudio M3, you need to carry a remote in your pocket along with the player itself since you can not operate the player without a remote. This will add a little bit of extra bulk. The other players have built in screens and don't require a remote to operate.

He was not referring to the actual operation the player, but about transporting it in your pocket. For the most part, with the iRiver, Zen of iPod, you have the option to carry a remote with you or not, whereas with the M3, you don't have much of a choice.

 

[Krishna]

Quote:

Originally Posted by GSTom1 I believe br-- was referring to the fact that with the iAudio M3, you need to carry a remote in your pocket along with the player itself since you can not operate the player without a remote. This will add a little bit of extra bulk. The other players have built in screens and don't require a remote to operate. He was not referring to the actual operation the player, but about transporting it in your pocket. For the most part, with the iRiver, Zen of iPod, you have the option to carry a remote with you or not, whereas with the M3, you don't have much of a choice.

I don't understand why you would carry the remote in your pocket in the first place. Only bulk I can see the remote adding is the extra long cord, but that can be remedied easily with some tape.

 

[aos]

Quote:

Sorry, but you've only played with one other player so that statement is unsupportable. Many reviews state that the Karma UI is close to, as good as or better than the iPod.

I might not have held Karma in my hands, but I know what a jog dial is. One ring (touch wheel) rules them all - it's one of those inventions that make you wonder why you haven't thought of them.

I would love to see something cheaper than IPod and just as good show up, as it would drive prices down. However, so far it looks like investing in user interface research and design rather than just technology is paying off handsomely.

It's true though that the iPod momentum is maintained by it becoming a cult icon, showing up on TV shows and movies and being showed off by celebrities. Another proof that technology only plays a small part in determining success. Kudos to Apple marketing.

 

[br--]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krishna A remote doesn't add bulk and it is actually quite useful.

How you can possibly argue this is beyond me. Of course a remote adds bulk! It is one more thing I must carry in my pocket to use the player. Bulk is VOLUME. A large remote such as the one on the M3 adds to the volume that must be contained by your pocket. This is quite simple.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Krishna The only reason any one would care about the thickness/size of the player would be because they want to put it in their pocket, or some other enclosed area.

Yes. I have been saying this in all of my posts.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Krishna Not valid for comparison my arse! Just because the M3 is better than the Ipod in a certain way doesn't mean that you have to make up a stupid excuse to disregard it.

It's pretty simple, but I guess you don't get it. The whole objective of this comparison is to find the HD MP3 player that is the most comfortable in your pocket. Comfort is directly related to thickness, moreso than height or width. This is because as the MP3 player gets thicker, the more force is put on your leg when placed in your pocket (with well fitting pants of course). The M3 was excluded because it adds a great deal of bulk that the other units do not. I don't have the dimensions of the remote, but it looks quite large in the images I've seen. I will simplify it further: I will be more comfortable with an iPod and earphones in my pocket, than an M3, the remote, and earphones in my pocket.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Krishna Then the Nw-hd1. You say that you said MP3 player. I don't care what the hell you said, but the fact is that it is smaller than the ipod in every way. Sure I agree that Sony are a bunch of idiots to limit the player to Atrac3 only, but the discussion is not really about file formats, its about the size and possibly even weight. The Nw-hd1 smashes the Ipod, and the M3 even,in these terms.

No, the discussion was specifically about the thickness of hard drive MP3 players as I said in my post. Because I specified MP3 players, the NW-HD1 does not count, no matter how much you want it to (to prove your point).
Quote:

Originally Posted by Krishna It must be admitted that the Ipod does have the a nice average of all the features, but in terms of size it has been beat, and no longer remains undisputed.

Again, it is the thinnest HD MP3 player that does not require you to carry additional bulk such as a remote. This is not an opinion. I'm just reporting on the dimensions.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Krishna I don't understand why you would carry the remote in your pocket in the first place. Only bulk I can see the remote adding is the extra long cord, but that can be remedied easily with some tape.

Many times I find myself using an MP3 player on public transportation to get around, then strolling around the city. After I get off the vehicle, it's convenient for me to stick my MP3 player and earphones in my pocket since I usually do not carry a bag with me. Your suggestion of wearing the remote is fairly ridiculous. Imagine how it looks, not playing any music at all, but you have a remote dangling off your shirt. It's just not socially acceptable if you want to look professional.

 

[philodox]

I dont want to get caught up in this M3 discussion, but why would you ever have the remote in your pocket? these remotes are designed to clip to your shirt or messanger bag or coat or whatever... if you put it in your pocket it ceases to be a remote... you might as well just be using the buttons on the player at that point...
Quote:

Originally Posted by aos I haven't had a chance to try other players (Canada is a wasteland, there's only iPod, and iRiver only appeared two-three months ago) but I imagine their navigation works better.

check out www.hotmp3gear.com

The guy that runs the site is named Scott and is very helpfull and lives in Burlington [Ontario]... He imports stuff from the states for very good prices... mainly deals in Archos products, but some others as well

 

[br--]

Quote:

Originally Posted by philodox I dont want to get caught up in this M3 discussion, but why would you ever have the remote in your pocket? these remotes are designed to clip to your shirt or messanger bag or coat or whatever... if you put it in your pocket it ceases to be a remote... you might as well just be using the buttons on the player at that point...

I said that when you are not listening to music, but walking around, it looks silly to wear your remote. In that case you would need to put it in your pocket if you don't have any bags with you.

 

[philodox]

Quote:

Originally Posted by br-- I said that when you are not listening to music, but walking around, it looks silly to wear your remote. In that case you would need to put it in your pocket if you don't have any bags with you.

I must have missed that post... would you normally put your earbuds in the same pocket as the ipod or in your other pocket? I would place them in my other pocket and put the remote in there as well...

It makes no difference to me in any case... my idea of portable and most peoples on here differs by quite a bit... just take a look at my signature... lol, thats what I bring to and from work every day...

 

[Alick]

Quote:

I said that when you are not listening to music, but walking around, it looks silly to wear your remote.

If wearing the remote looks silly when you're not listening to music, why would it not look silly when you are?

 

[Krishna]

It seems that all you are concerned with is how you look when you are listening to music there is no point in disucussing this any further. Sheep will always be sheep.

 

[br--]

Quote:

Originally Posted by philodox would you normally put your earbuds in the same pocket as the ipod or in your other pocket? I would place them in my other pocket and put the remote in there as well

I usually put my earbuds in the same pocket as my iPod. It's convenient because when I want to use it, everything is still plugged in and ready to go.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Alick If wearing the remote looks silly when you're not listening to music, why would it not look silly when you are?

Good question. When wearing your remote while listening to music, usually your music player is in your pocket, the remote is clipped on to your shirt, and your earphones/headphones are being worn. The "direction of audio" is apparant. However, when not listening to music and still wearing the remote, the player is in your pocket, the remote is clipped on to your shirt but not plugged into anything. Having a remote clipped on to your shirt that is serving no purpose at the time looks pretty unusual. I have never seen anyone wear a remote when not listening to music. It just looks odd. They put the remote in a bag or pocket.
Quote:

It seems that all you are concerned with is how you look when you are listening to music there is no point in disucussing this any further. Sheep will always be sheep.

Nice work with the cheap shot rather than responding to my rebuttals!

 

[Jahn]

clipping my remote to my shirt=lost remote. and i JUST bought a bag that i could velcro that pesky remote to as well! well that's 24 bucks for a new remote that i'm out, oh well.

 

[DigDub]

lol. i don't know why you folks are arguing over which dap is better. each of us have different needs. for example, i keep my iriver-100 in my backpack so size is not a major consideration for me. i also use it as a portable hard disk, so the creative zen is not useful to me. there is no 'undisputed best' dap around. some daps just do certain things better than others. different folks, different strokes.

 

[Krishna]

Quote:

Originally Posted by br-- Nice work with the cheap shot rather than responding to my rebuttals!

I could answer your rebuttals but work and time are of the utmost importance to me. The only thing that I can say though is that it would seem like for your needs the Ipod is the best, but these are only your needs. Your own needs do not reflect the needs, thoughts, values of other people, so when you assume that people want to have the remote in there pockets you are also assuming that the people will have the same type of headphones as you (inear) ( I personallywear sports style which obviously can't fit into pockets, therefore must be worn around the neck), and that they will feel insecure about wearing remote even when its off. If you don't like carrying a remote then stick with the Ipod, but some people will prefer it, and also will be using it constantly, therefore it is based on preference, and not fact. Music players are used primarily for listening to music, I am sure you will atleast agree with this, therefore when listening to music remotes come in very handy. They may not be so handy in your pocket sure. To summarize its mainly based on preference, so some may like to listen to their music at all times. You on the other hand may like the feel of a small hard object along with two round objects in that general pocket area.