iPhone 7 Will Revolutionize Portable Audio for the First Time in a Decade
Oct 12, 2016 at 3:06 AM Post #961 of 1,216

BlinkST

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- Are there any favorites from that list ? Any advice and additional info is greatly appreciated. I am thinking of getting one of those listed right away to combine with my currently in use JVC HA-FX700 Stereo Mini-Headphones' wired to iPhone 4S, which I then consider to upgrade with iPhone 7+.

It depends on where you read reviews. They all have decent ratings. 
 
---This! Will you share more of your experience/information from using them so far. How will it do with lightning connector on iPhone7+ with iOS10...?

They should work fine on iOS 10. It's the latest version.
 
Oct 12, 2016 at 3:23 AM Post #962 of 1,216

shigzeo

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For consumer grade audio the current Bluetooth is fine but I think Apple jumped the gun if they think wireless is ready for higher end audio applicatons; not licensing and using AptX-HD alongside the removal of other options isn't going to help to convince users that wireless is ready for high quality audio applications.

As I understand W1doesn't improve audio quality, it just adds Apple-centric features to headphones. A nice touch but potentially misses the primary purpose of headphones.

Consumers may not gain anything new by keeping the headphone jack but by removing it consumers have most definitely lost the convenience of using the headphones they already own; headphones which in many cases will be considerably better than the offerings from Apple or Beats.


I agree WRT bluetooth being several steps removed from optimal, or even good enough. But Apple's move is exactly what will push into 'good enough' if not 'great' territory in the short term. Companies trying to outdo one another to grab the central, fantastic market.

Consumers have lost NOTHING by the removal of the headphone jack. They can use the dongle. It is cumbersome, but it actually allows any wired earphone to work with any case. If Apple didn't provide a stop-gap solution like it, and what existed was way expensive, I'd agree with you. In this case, I cannot because consumers can use all the headphones they used with previous phones and DAPs.
 
Oct 12, 2016 at 3:35 AM Post #963 of 1,216

west0ne

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@shigzeo - for my perspective the loss, albeit minimal is that of convenience. Being forced to use and adapter to use existing headphones is far from ideal. Losing the ability to charge the device and use headphones without yet another adapter is again a loss of convenience. None of these are end of civilisation type issues but I don't see how anyone can argue that they aren't inconvenient and potentially avoidable.

As for wireless i still think it wilk be bluetooth stabdards that drive progress and BT5 is already being worked on.
 
Oct 12, 2016 at 4:20 AM Post #964 of 1,216

shigzeo

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@shigzeo - for my perspective the loss, albeit minimal is that of convenience. Being forced to use and adapter to use existing headphones is far from ideal. Losing the ability to charge the device and use headphones without yet another adapter is again a loss of convenience. None of these are end of civilisation type issues but I don't see how anyone can argue that they aren't inconvenient and potentially avoidable.

As for wireless i still think it wilk be bluetooth stabdards that drive progress and BT5 is already being worked on.


I fully agree that it could be inconvenient. I could be that I'm arguing from ignorance: most audiophiles I meet wouldn't admit to listening through a smartphone. (Fools.) Fewer listen to one plugged in. I've never done that, primarily because the charging cable is short, and the only place I might consider charging/listening is in bed, and I've never found a comfortable angle. 

The problem is, at least in my mind, moot. Audiophiles signal their virtue by lambasting smartphones and those that listen to them. (Again, they are fools.) And the ones that enjoy music from whatever source, smartphones in particular, are a small group that also plug the thing in. Of course, there are splitter options available. I just can't see a problem that isn't first inherent in the smartphone design. 

I'm not silly enough to argue that potentially it is inconvenient. I understand your argument. You seem a reasonable chap. But it is my strong opinion that such inconvenience is far outweighed by how a single device like the iPhone 7 will push forward nascent markets like Bluetooth. By all means disagree with me. I will equally air my disagreements with your logic (which is good). 
 
Oct 12, 2016 at 4:36 AM Post #966 of 1,216

shigzeo

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The current limitations of dac implementations in phones is a limiting factor in audiophile SQ. In my limited opinion
smily_headphones1.gif


To which I would ask: what in your opinion is limited by those DACs? Certainly, poor DACs exist in smartphones, but today's modern A+ smartphone are every bit the match for high-end DAPs at normal to loud listening levels. If you want to stretch to benchmark-making volumes at which no one in their right mind listens, I agree that smartphones are behind. And even then, plugging in a pair of headphones at those volume levels will show the problems in high-end DAPs faster than it will in high-end smartphones. I tend to speak about measurable stuff, though, as personal preference, placebo, etc., are impossible to quantify. 
 
Volume-match and double blind tested, I'd put my money on the vast majority of golden eared audiophiles not hearing statistically significant differences between today's top-performing DAP and top-performing smartphone. 
 
Oct 12, 2016 at 4:51 AM Post #967 of 1,216

pdickerson

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To which I would ask: what in your opinion is limited by those DACs? Certainly, poor DACs exist in smartphones, but today's modern A+ smartphone are every bit the match for high-end DAPs at normal to loud listening levels. If you want to stretch to benchmark-making volumes at which no one in their right mind listens, I agree that smartphones are behind. And even then, plugging in a pair of headphones at those volume levels will show the problems in high-end DAPs faster than it will in high-end smartphones. I tend to speak about measurable stuff, though, as personal preference, placebo, etc., are impossible to quantify. 

Volume-match and double blind tested, I'd put my money on the vast majority of golden eared audiophiles not hearing statistically significant differences between today's top-performing DAP and top-performing smartphone. 


You can read about the sigma delta DAC chips in the yggy forums. Someday a vendor will make a better mircoscopic DAC design that can fit within the limitations of a phone design, but Google will likely eat their lunch before that day comes.

I will not be plugging a Apple device into my Prima Luna HP tube amp feeding my Aerial Acoustic speakers
 
Oct 12, 2016 at 4:54 AM Post #968 of 1,216

shigzeo

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You can read about the sigma delta DAC chips in the yggy forums. Someday a vendor will make a better mircoscopic DAC design that can fit within the limitations of a phone design, but Google will likely eat their lunch before that day comes.

I will not be plugging a Apple device into my Prima Luna HP tube amp feeding my Aerial Acoustic speakers


I may have misunderstood you. Were you referring to portable devices in general, or to smartphones in particular as lacking appropriate DAC implementation?
 
Oct 12, 2016 at 6:03 AM Post #969 of 1,216

elfary

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As a balanced armature man I'd trade the added bulk for a 0'3 ohms of Zout anyday. It kind of fits to my SE846s needs.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Oct 12, 2016 at 7:01 AM Post #970 of 1,216

SparkOnShore

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For consumer grade audio the current Bluetooth is fine but I think Apple jumped the gun if they think wireless is ready for higher end audio applicatons; not licensing and using AptX-HD alongside the removal of other options isn't going to help to convince users that wireless is ready for high quality audio applications.

As I understand W1doesn't improve audio quality, it just adds Apple-centric features to headphones. A nice touch but potentially misses the primary purpose of headphones.

Consumers may not gain anything new by keeping the headphone jack but by removing it consumers have most definitely lost the convenience of using the headphones they already own; headphones which in many cases will be considerably better than the offerings from Apple or Beats.


Apple will never adopt AptX because they are certain that AAC through Bluetooth with W1 is good enough for most ears. As I tried to explain to all my previous posts, this is Apple's mentality which makes them the biggest company on earth. Since most people can never discern AAC from AptX, in the case that AAC transmission is executed without hiccups and latencies due to the W1, this is the way for Apple to go. What you say as high quality audio via Bluetooth is here with AAC/Apple Music/W1, according to Apple. Most people DO NOT need anything more because what is offered by Apple is GOOD ENOUGH, for the money that they pay to get it. This "good enough" for the masses, is a rather important point to understand because we are talking about a company whose capitals are more than the GDP of many European countries or Africa continent all together...What you say as high quality audio, higher than AAC with the W1, is important only to some exaggerating audiophiles who think they got golden ears, but who for sure DO NOT interest Apple AT ALL. They can buy products from small companies who occupy more or exclusively with them...
 
Oct 12, 2016 at 10:01 AM Post #972 of 1,216

Falqon

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Never say Never

 
In a thread extremely optimistic and naively titled "apple will revolutionize" and then explaining how the company that sells $700 smartphones bundled with absolutely garbage earphones to protect their precious ~30% margins is out to revolutionize audio quality for a small subset of users, I think never is a pretty good word.
 
Oct 12, 2016 at 10:20 AM Post #973 of 1,216

SparkOnShore

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In a thread extremely optimistic and naively titled "apple will revolutionize" and then explaining how the company that sells $700 smartphones bundled with absolutely garbage earphones to protect their precious ~30% margins is out to revolutionize audio quality for a small subset of users, I think never is a pretty good word.


1. Apple EarPods are not garbage for the most people on this planet. Go out to metro, buses, stations, stadiums, streets and you will confirm by yourself what I say. Actually they may be the best bundled earphones ever...

2. Apple users are not the small subset. They are the majority who just want to enjoy music with the good enough audio quality of Apple's products, which by the way is more than enough! They are the people who don't sit testing 2000$ headphones for "accuracy" but live and enjoy the audio coming out of their devices... Apple is producing for them because profit is coming from them and not from idiosyncratic audiophiles who are the 0,00001% of this world...

3. 700$ is very little money for what an iPhone can offer. Especially in an era of competition's exploding devices. Expensive are the 3000$ electrostatic earphones, the audio quality of which is important and discernible by the 0,00000001% of the population...
 
Oct 12, 2016 at 1:55 PM Post #974 of 1,216

Duncan

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I think re the first point above, most people use them because they come in the box (hence,in their eyes, free), not really any other reason...

More power to them though I suppose.
 
Oct 12, 2016 at 2:50 PM Post #975 of 1,216

RugbyPlayer

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1. Apple EarPods are not garbage for the most people on this planet. Go out to metro, buses, stations, stadiums, streets and you will confirm by yourself what I say. Actually they may be the best bundled earphones ever...

2. Apple users are not the small subset. They are the majority who just want to enjoy music with the good enough audio quality of Apple's products, which by the way is more than enough! They are the people who don't sit testing 2000$ headphones for "accuracy" but live and enjoy the audio coming out of their devices... Apple is producing for them because profit is coming from them and not from idiosyncratic audiophiles who are the 0,00001% of this world...

3. 700$ is very little money for what an iPhone can offer. Especially in an era of competition's exploding devices. Expensive are the 3000$ electrostatic earphones, the audio quality of which is important and discernible by the 0,00000001% of the population...

Your contradicting yourself. If the current w1 chip with AAC over bluetooth is "good enough" why would other companies push the envelope to develop better bluetooth tech if apple THEMSELVES, thinks its a pointless venture. hmmm, yeah no, makes 0 sense does it.
 
Bluetooth can be developed and improved without the idiocy of removing a universally accepted jack, it does absolutely nothing. People seriously think apple has too much sway when in reality, companies dont give a damn what apple does with their devices. It WILL NOT change their development cycles, ESPECIALLY with bluetooth
 

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