Introducing the STAX SRM-T8000 - Head-Fi TV
Aug 3, 2017 at 5:41 PM Post #196 of 247
That is what is stupid about the design!

Why did the STAX T8000 design NOT ALLOW the use of any equivalent NOS tube?

ALL THE OTHER STAX DRIVER AMPS ALLOW TUBE ROLLING AND USER BIASING!

Well, I recently bought a used Stax SRM-T1. And right on the cover it had a sticker that said "...do not remove covers. No user serviceable parts inside." So, Stax has never encouraged tube rolling, period. And in fact, most companies do not encourage tube rollers, probably because there are always a few people out there that will do something stupid, then after they blow up the amp, replace the original tubes and send it in for repair under warranty.
 
Aug 3, 2017 at 8:34 PM Post #197 of 247
Well, I recently bought a used Stax SRM-T1. And right on the cover it had a sticker that said "...do not remove covers. No user serviceable parts inside." So, Stax has never encouraged tube rolling, period. And in fact, most companies do not encourage tube rollers, probably because there are always a few people out there that will do something stupid, then after they blow up the amp, replace the original tubes and send it in for repair under warranty.
Yes I know that, and it is still stupid! A sticker does not prevent you from rolling tubes on the T1. The design of the T 8000 does.

Stax just wants to make money and force you to buy their tubes!

Name any other high end tube amplifier company with that same policy!

You should be able to replace and bias yourself with your tube choice - it is a Stax money grab!
 
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Aug 3, 2017 at 8:52 PM Post #198 of 247
Yes I know that, and it is still stupid! A sticker does not prevent you from rolling tubes on the T1. The design of the T 8000 does.

Stax just wants to make money and force you to buy their tubes!

Name any other high end tube amplifier company with that same policy!

You should be able to replace and bias yourself with your tube choice - it is a Stax money grab!

I don't think you are thinking clearly. Not much of a money grab if the tubes last 10-20 years, is it? Which is pretty much the case for all the amps Stax has designed in the past. That means that in 10-20 years, they may start having to replace tubes in amps sold now. They they will get, say, an additional $50 per amp to replace two tubes at that point. Barely enough to keep them in Gray Poupon. I mean, really. There are solid state circuits which rely on matching devices in order to function correctly, and nobody complains about them. You're hacked that you can't replace the tubes - well you can, as Kevin Gilmore has posted, if you have the proper test equipment and knowledge of what is required. For everyone else, better to have a properly working circuit with possibly non-optimum tubes, than a non-working circuit with an allegedly better sounding tube. And how do you know that Stax hasn't tuned the circuit to work best with their chosen tubes?

No, Stax just wants to make sure they replace the tubes, if and when they need to, with tubes that actually work in the circuit. You can disagree with their design philosophy, but it's not completely unreasonable. And as I said, it's consistent over the years, going back to the SRM-T1, if not even further.
 
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Aug 4, 2017 at 12:35 AM Post #199 of 247
I don't think you are thinking clearly. Not much of a money grab if the tubes last 10-20 years, is it? Which is pretty much the case for all the amps Stax has designed in the past. That means that in 10-20 years, they may start having to replace tubes in amps sold now. They they will get, say, an additional $50 per amp to replace two tubes at that point. Barely enough to keep them in Gray Poupon. I mean, really. There are solid state circuits which rely on matching devices in order to function correctly, and nobody complains about them. You're hacked that you can't replace the tubes - well you can, as Kevin Gilmore has posted, if you have the proper test equipment and knowledge of what is required. For everyone else, better to have a properly working circuit with possibly non-optimum tubes, than a non-working circuit with an allegedly better sounding tube. And how do you know that Stax hasn't tuned the circuit to work best with their chosen tubes?

No, Stax just wants to make sure they replace the tubes, if and when they need to, with tubes that actually work in the circuit. You can disagree with their design philosophy, but it's not completely unreasonable. And as I said, it's consistent over the years, going back to the SRM-T1, if not even further.

JimL11

I am thinking clearly! The T8000 could be better for $6000.

I only want the best sounding tubes! Why suffer with STAX second-rate Russian tubes for 10 to 20 years in the T8000? The T8000 could be better sounding, with better tubes IMO.

Put Low noise RCA clear Top tubes from the 60 or 70's in your SRM T1. They will blow out the stock Russian tubes. The T8000 "properly designed" with good sounding NOS tubes will blow out stock Stax T8000 supplied tubes.
 
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Aug 4, 2017 at 1:05 AM Post #200 of 247
JimL11

No high end audio preamp that uses 6dj8 or 6922 tubes sounds best with Russian tubes. All of these preamps sounds better with NON RUSSIAN tubes, The Russian 6dj8 or 6922 tubes are never considered best by audiophiles.

What would that not be the case with T8000? The Russian tubes are second rate, and give second rate results every time!
 
Aug 4, 2017 at 1:27 AM Post #201 of 247
So much anger here
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Ali
 
Aug 4, 2017 at 1:35 AM Post #202 of 247
Possibly I'm missing the deal here. If the SRM-T8000 doesn't suit your needs, why the rant? The BHSE is a very alternate option (and a -very- nice one too). If you want to complain about design, it's too late...it's already in production.

Take it for what it is. If not, move along.
 
Aug 4, 2017 at 10:20 AM Post #203 of 247
JimL11

I am thinking clearly! The T8000 could be better for $6000.

I only want the best sounding tubes! Why suffer with STAX second-rate Russian tubes for 10 to 20 years in the T8000? The T8000 could be better sounding, with better tubes IMO.

Put Low noise RCA clear Top tubes from the 60 or 70's in your SRM T1. They will blow out the stock Russian tubes. The T8000 "properly designed" with good sounding NOS tubes will blow out stock Stax T8000 supplied tubes.

Wow. Just wow. First of all, the stock tubes in the T1 are commonly Toshiba, and sometimes GE, neither of them Russian tubes. Both Hirsch (an experienced tube roller) and spritzer have posted on Head-Fi years ago that the Toshiba tubes sound better than the GE, RCA, or any number of other NOS tubes - in the T1 specifically. And Hitachi tubes sound better than RCA, GE, etc. also. Seems that Stax, a Japanese company, designed the T1 around the Toshiba and Hitachi, Japanese tubes. Who woulda thunk it?

Second of all, ever wonder why commercial manufacturers don't use NOS tubes, as a general rule? For the simple reason that while a hobbyist can be a couple of tubes off of eBay or from a tube dealer, it is difficult if not impossible to buy several thousand NOS tubes, and no guarantee that when stocks run low, they can go out and buy another several hundred, plus spares for replacements. The T8000 uses 6DJ8 tubes. Some of the most favored 6DJ8 tubes are Amperex. Have you priced any lately? And we're talking about NOS tubes, not good used tubes. Call around and see if any tube resellers can get you 1000 NOS Amperex tubes. Or Telefunken. Or Siemens. They will probably laugh in your face.

And 1000 tubes will get you 250 amps (2 tubes/amp, plus 2 replacements). And remember that the usual multiplier factor for an OEM is 5x, meaning that whatever it costs on the market as a "part", will be 5x multiplied in the final cost.

You may not like the Russian tubes, but that is what is available. Also, the "rules" for DC coupled electrostatic amplifier design, which amplify signals by 1000-fold, are somewhat different than for tube preamps, which amplify signals by, say 10-20 fold, and are AC coupled. If a DC coupled electrostatic amp is off by 0.2 volts at the input, that's 200 volts offset at the output. If an AC coupled preamp is off by 0.2 volts at the input, that's 2-4 volts at the output, which is capacitor coupled anyway so the DC is blocked.

Remember, as Kevin Gilmore posted, if you have the equipment, the knowledge, and a bunch of tubes to test, you can swap tubes. It's just not pull and plug. Stax is a commercial manufacturer. Most of their customers are not tube rollers. You're asking them to cater to a small fraction of the customer base.

I understand what you are saying, but what you are proposing is just not realistic. Oh, and I do agree with your second sentence, but for different reasons.

And as AnakChan says, if you don't like the T8000, you don't have to buy it. Buy the BHSE instead, or wait for the new all-tube HeadAmp design when it becomes available, and go crazy. Or build my SRX Plus design which has 4 12AT7s and 2 6SN7GTA/B tubes for a fraction of the cost of the T8000. Or build a Kevin Gilmore design like the Grounded Grid, or KGST, or his T8000 clone. You have options.
 
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Aug 4, 2017 at 11:17 AM Post #204 of 247
You won't be able to roll output tubes in the new HeadAmp amplifier. There is only one tube on the planet made by one manufacturer.
 
Aug 4, 2017 at 3:50 PM Post #205 of 247
Mm...I read somewhere that the BHSE wait time has been considerably reduced. As for tube rolling, I generally favor the option but if the manufacturer advises against it (for probably good reason), no big deal. It is just a component. Just another part of the whole system.
 
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Aug 4, 2017 at 7:12 PM Post #206 of 247
i'm fairly confident that most people that would buy the t8000 will actually buy it, and 95% of them have no intention to do any tube rolling.

but if you are in that 5% and really want to tube roll, then have at it. and if a tube you stick in there will balance and offset, and you can find another
that matches the voltage gain, great. But don't say that the siemens cc (or pick something else) is the most fantastical tube ever but the t8000 is a piece of crap
because that particular tube won't adjust right. The design is what it is, and its unlikely to change without the thing getting bigger and even more expensive.

the T2 used the same tube in a cascade configuration where the servo had a wider range of operation. So it could tolerate more variation.

Its my experience that NOS tubes that have been sitting on the shelf for 40+ years are going to drift significantly and might require several hundred hours of burn in
to be usable in an amp like this. And I highly doubt any tube seller out there is actually going to be willing to match a pair of tubes to work in the t8000. Or they will lie
and then its your problem.
 
Aug 5, 2017 at 2:35 AM Post #207 of 247
spent 4 days 3 nights with both ... not allowed to comment, actually not even sharing this pix as a non-paying member of trade without the post being removed.

BU6uZQV.jpg
 
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Aug 5, 2017 at 7:48 PM Post #209 of 247
All, I've further cleaned up a few off topic and trolling posts (and replies to the troll posts), and locked out a member out of this thread.

For the future instead of replying to the trolls, please report instead and please stick to the T8000 topic.
 
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