[Tubewin]

Where are you seeing this?

on youtube comments section of the video.

 

[OhmsClaw]

I think there is more to this. Makes no sense to issue cease and desist on a review from 3 years ago. Bartok has also had 2 revisions since then (v2 and APEX) and the original Bartok has been discontinued for a while.

"We are not your mommy or therapist"
If there's any more to be extracted it's that the company is extremely petty.

Chord had a scathing internal memo leaked as well not for third party distribution from 2020 dunking on the ring dac implementation. I don't see any lawfare being thrown at Chord.

 

[ClieOS]

Never know dCS to be the kind of company that operates a self-destruct button when things don't go their way. Shame.

 

[OhmsClaw]

Never know dCS to be the kind of company that operates a self-destruct button when things don't go their way. Shame.

Tekton x dCS collab coming in hot

 

[TDHEAD]

I think there is more to this. Makes no sense to issue cease and desist on a review from 3 years ago. Bartok has also had 2 revisions since then (v2 and APEX) and the original Bartok has been discontinued for a while.

Don't know what the deal is here. I like Golden Sound and follow him. I respect his reviews. I also like DCS have had a Bartok which I loved and would buy again. My experience with DCS is that they are actually one of the better companies to deal with .

That said I am sad that any of this whatever the foundation is not good for the Hobby and my hope is we don't polarize even this in our discussions going forward. I hope these guys get it all sorted out for the best interest of the hobby overall.

 

[adrianm]

Looks like Zahl it is for me .

Between the Zahl and the Lina amp there is no comparison. Their dacs however are the best i've heard by quite a bit. Also love Goldensound, and I am definitely one of the people that skipped the Bartok on his advice, and went straight for the Rossini.

I think there is more to this. Makes no sense to issue cease and desist on a review from 3 years ago. Bartok has also had 2 revisions since then (v2 and APEX) and the original Bartok has been discontinued for a while.

Agree. As impartial as I can, because I like both parties a lot, messages like those are just commercial suicide. And not to point fingers here, but Aleksandr from Raal also had a similar reaction recently to Goldensound's first impression of the Immanis. So I would give dCS the benefit of the doubt, even though they handled this as poorly as they could, it's clear that something has been bubbling up for years. I've quit jobs and left similar feedback so I 100% get where they are coming from. Will probably need to stop burning bridges at one point. Just my 2 cents.

 

[OhmsClaw]

Between the Zahl and the Lina amp there is no comparison. Their dacs however are the best i've heard by quite a bit. Also love Goldensound, and I am definitely one of the people that skipped the Bartok on his advice, and went straight for the Rossini.

Agree. As impartial as I can, because I like both parties a lot, messages like those are just commercial suicide. And not to point fingers here, but Aleksandr from Raal also had a similar reaction recently to Goldensound's first impression of the Immanis. So I would give dCS the benefit of the doubt, even though they handled this as poorly as they could, it's clear that something has been bubbling up for years. I've quit jobs and left similar feedback so I 100% get where they are coming from. Will probably need to stop burning bridges at one point. Just my 2 cents.

"Will probably need to stop burning bridges at one point."

I hope that's your self reflection, not a suggestion a reviewer stop giving honest opinions.

Though I believe that's your own reflection, even if Raal also had a negative reaction someone needs to hold 4 and 5 figure product companies to account. How would Aleksandr's reaction mitigate or lend any benefit of the doubt? As far as I recall even MQA didn't attempt a lawsuit over Goldensound's smackdown on MQA.

This hobby, unlike any other, lives in a fantasy realm where objective truth is out the window. The "free market" and "voting with your money" doesn't work when subjectivity reigns supreme and marketing prose with audiophile thesaurus bingo has been cranked to 11. This is where reviewers with outsized influence actually stand to damage a company's bottom line; whether it's a quarterly or annual underperformance or permanent loss of trust in a company.

This is not to say a company can't take honest feedback and criticism in stride to improve their products or issue firmware updates in the product cycle. But to engage in lawfare and PR suicide because ego won the day is always a bad look.

Campfire already dealt with this vs Crinacle (who is NOT a passive bystander in the IEM space) and subsequently headphones dot com who also de-listed them (and partnered with Crinacle 2 years later). But they have kept their nose to the grind wheel and turned the ship around.

Lastly, a company like dCS might not even consider their clientele to exist online and nouveau reviews are inconsequential to their brand power as they move units through dealers and high end segments. So it's pretty strange indeed. Maybe it's a British feud

 

[BS5711]

This hobby, unlike any other, lives in a fantasy realm where objective truth is out the window. The "free market" and "voting with your money" doesn't work when subjectivity reigns supreme and marketing prose with audiophile thesaurus bingo has been cranked to 11.

Agreed

 

[adrianm]

Lastly, a company like dCS might not even consider their clientele to exist online and nouveau reviews are inconsequential to their brand power as they move units through dealers and high end segments. So it's pretty strange indeed. Maybe it's a British feud

How would Aleksandr's reaction mitigate or lend any benefit of the doubt?

Well on the flipside of the coin, there have been plenty of accusations that certain reviewers (and Goldensound is not exempt here, but ASR would be the main offender) are hitting high end brands that make quality products (as opposed to 90% of them which sell snake oil) to take them down a notch and promote the superiority or "just-as-goodness" of Chi-fi. I started out in this hobby 10 years ago following ASR and actually believing that. Until I heard everything there is out there and made my own decision.
Do I think Golden does that? no, but some accuse him of being biased towards Holo audio.

This hobby, unlike any other, lives in a fantasy realm where objective truth is out the window.

I agree. The hobby is an absolute shitshow, but believe me, most reviewers are definitely more part of the problem than the solution. Good vibes online don't pay their bills.

"Will probably need to stop burning bridges at one point."

I hope that's your self reflection, not a suggestion a reviewer stop giving honest opinions.

It is, but dCS's implication was exactly that there was some ill intent involved, not an honest opinion. Hope they work it out.

 

[bflat]

I would love to stand on principle and boycott dCS. But I believe in honesty and the prices they charge are way beyond my means so I was never going to be a customer.

Having said that, I do agree with the main point of this expose. It will indeed be a bad precedent where well funded companies go after negative reviews to shut down free speech using legal and financial threats. Warning to those companies thinking about doing this - it will backfire spectacularly every time.

I suspect dCS will find a graceful way out of this situation - something about misunderstanding and overreacting.

 

[Frankie D]

Do I think Golden does that? no, but some accuse him of being biased towards Holo audio.

I have compared them and honestly I am in agreement with Golden ( granted at shows, but spent extended time with them ). I prefer the Holo stack to the Bartok and the Lina stack and it is also superior to the sound of the Rossini paired with the Lina amp. I have not heard the Rossini with the HoloAudio Bliss.

 

[583446]

 

[bflat]

Interesting. Here is dCS side of the story posted on 7/15

https://dcs.community/t/a-response-to-recent-claims-regarding-dcs/6722

Just a day later, another update that seems to walk back some of their allegations and a termination of a dCS employee:

https://dcs.community/t/goldensound-headphones-com-dcs-an-update/6740

It seems this all was "misunderstanding and overreacting" with apologies and free dCS Lina system thrown in.

All's well and ends well.....

 

[adrianm]

I have compared them and honestly I am in agreement with Golden ( granted at shows, but spent extended time with them ). I prefer the Holo stack to the Bartok and the Lina stack and it is also superior to the sound of the Rossini paired with the Lina amp. I have not heard the Rossini with the HoloAudio Bliss.

Well preference and superiority are 2 different things. I consider the Lina amp worse than cheaper amps, just to get it out of the way. I have compared the entire Lina stack with the Dave and Oor, and found the Lina amp to be much worse than the Oor. Comparing the Lina+clock (any dCS dac sounds much worse without a clock imo, exactly that softness Golden was refering to) to Mdave, it was still clearly better. And I find the Rossini (+clock!!!) something else entirely.

Interesting. Here is dCS side of the story posted on 7/15

https://dcs.community/t/a-response-to-recent-claims-regarding-dcs/6722

Just a day later, another update that seems to walk back some of their allegations and a termination of a dCS employee:

https://dcs.community/t/goldensound-headphones-com-dcs-an-update/6740

It seems this all was "misunderstanding and overreacting" with apologies and free dCS Lina system thrown in.

All's well and ends well.....

Wow...now that I read what it's all about...I'm sorry to say, but I suspected the same thing as @GoldenSound when I first heard the Lina stack (and I have also posted this on Head-fi a few years ago). Granted, I can blame my ignorance for it, as I'm not as knowledgeable as Cameron on the subject, but the difference the clocks make to dCS dacs are quite shocking.
As a developer myself, the easiest explanation I could find as to why dCS dacs get such a huge improvement from the clock (compared to others) don't is exactly that Cameron blurted out...the dacs would use another upsampling algorithm when detecting the clock. I've seen all manners of snake oil in this hobby. Even if that would be the case....At least it sounds better. Mercedes paywalls car performance behind software updates. Would this be really that much worse?
Not saying this is what is happening, just saying the end result with a clock is considerably better in all cases, and I don't fully understand why this is the case except " Ring dac technology" most likely a deficiency on my part, but I don't have the time or patience to really care that much about it.
I can definitely see where Cameron is coming from, and I can also understand why dCS were insulted.

 

[bflat]

Here is the response form Headphones.com to the dCS post on 7/15 which lead dCS to retract and update their story on 7/16:

https://forum.headphones.com/t/dcs-response-and-story/23779

Unlike dCS, Headphones kept the post open for comment. More importantly, the post from Cameron confirms he considers this matter closed and dCS is looking for a new VP of Marketing.