Introducing CL2 Planar (Impressions Thread)
Nov 7, 2018 at 2:59 AM Post #1,036 of 3,158
Every Iem i tryed, there is roll off in the high after10khz
i listened to frequency sweep,with all my iem they roll off past 10khz and at 13khz i hear nothing, but with my headphone i hear clearly till 15khz and fades after that
Come on iem makers let the high extend....
now i see more and more people talking about highs before it was like Mids Mids Bass Bass, but high is very important too
 
Nov 7, 2018 at 3:04 AM Post #1,037 of 3,158
Every Iem i tryed, there is roll off in the high after10khz
i listened to frequency sweep,with all my iem they roll off past 10khz and at 13khz i hear nothing, but with my headphone i hear clearly till 15khz and fades after that
Come on iem makers let the high extend....
now i see more and more people talking about highs before it was like Mids Mids Bass Bass, but high is very important too
Not to crap on the CL2 thread, however if extended highs are your thing, you need to if you haven't already, check out the RE2000, very different presentation, which I'm not keen on after using the CL2, however - highs extended way way up in comparison.
 
Nov 7, 2018 at 3:11 AM Post #1,038 of 3,158
I personally feel, that you should not be writing a review about a piece of equipment unless you have had a minimum of 200 hours to get to know it properly, let alone 20.
I think stuff like this is a disservice to this community at large.
I can understand different tastes in sound signature, but when basic facts in your review are at odds with what everyone else is experiencing, maybe it should be an occasion for more than a quick pause.
My rule of thumb is a week. After that, in most cases I have a good hold on how something performs and what I can do with it. That's with my experience and my way of coming to conclusions.
Due to how different we perceive sound on different times of the day and the slight changes from day to day, I consider 2-3 days the minimum. Below that, all I could give are basic impressions, but nothing conclusive.
 
Nov 7, 2018 at 3:13 AM Post #1,039 of 3,158
Hi Kitechaser,

I too can't recognize at all my experience of the CL2 in B9Scrambler s nicely written review.

What puzzles me a lot with this review is that he states that he couldn't hear any difference between the wired and the bluetooth modes.
Well, when I tested a CL2 with hardly any burn-in at my dealer and likewise after I bought my own CL2 without any burn-in at all, there was already unfortunately a huge difference between the wired mode (even from my Samsung Note 9, which has a weak amp -- I for convenience often use the CL2 out of my phone at work) and the bluetooth mode. In comparison the bluetooth headband unfortunately sounds to me muffled, with much less clarity, detail, dynamics, is much less engaging (which is a pity) than already out of my phone.
That B9Scrambler could not hear did this shows to me that there was something wrong (damaged CL2? wrong setup ??).

BTW what I really love a lot about CL2 is the tiny form factor (I find that most TOTL with their many BAs are too big; the KSE1500 is small but you can't swap the cable - - a dead end would a cable be broken).

Enjoy your music with the CL2 and thank you you all for your posts here,
bidn
And a lot of the blame lies with RHA. Their whole 7 day review tour they are doing is going to lead to a lot of rushed impressions being out there in the community. It's almost like they do not know much about how their product is performing out in the real world.
Fresh CL2's out of the box, being auditioned out of iphones at exhibition shows for starters. Whoever is in charge of marketing the CL2, should really come read these threads.
 
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Nov 7, 2018 at 3:16 AM Post #1,040 of 3,158
Hi Kitechaser,

I too can't recognize at all my experience of the CL2 in B9Scrambler s nicely written review.

What puzzles me a lot with this review is that he states that he couldn't hear any difference between the wired and the bluetooth modes.
Well, when I tested a CL2 with hardly any burn-in at my dealer and likewise after I bought my own CL2 without any burn-in at all, there was already unfortunately a huge difference between the wired mode (even from my Samsung Note 9, which has a weak amp -- I for convenience often use the CL2 out of my phone at work) and the bluetooth mode. In comparison the bluetooth headband unfortunately sounds to me muffled, with much less clarity, detail, dynamics, is much less engaging (which is a pity) than already out of my phone.
That B9Scrambler could not hear did this shows to me that there was something wrong (damaged CL2? wrong setup ??).

BTW what I really love a lot about CL2 is the tiny form factor (I find that most TOTL with their many BAs are too big; the KSE1500 is small but you can't swap the cable - - a dead end would a cable be broken).

Enjoy your music with the CL2 and thank you you all for your posts here,
bidn
The "review" if we can call it that, is more than half baked. I didn't want to be rude to the man, but yes, if he couldn't tell the difference between the wired and wireless sound quality, he probably shouldn't have been in the position to write the review.
No source was mentioned, and from his impressions I doubt he even had that 21 hours with it he claimed he did.
I personally feel, that you should not be writing a review about a piece of equipment unless you have had a minimum of 200 hours to get to know it properly, let alone 20.
I think stuff like this is a disservice to this community at large.
I can understand different tastes in sound signature, but when basic facts in your review are at odds with what everyone else is experiencing, maybe it should be an occasion for more than a quick pause.

This is unfair. His impressions are his, no matter how great we think the CL2 are. I do not think his review is factually incorrect

It is up to the reader to determine whether the review is worth taking to heart given the other information available.

I also don't at all agree with the assessmentabout Bluetooth. I have tested the CL2 from a Note 9 as well and I think it sounds better from the Bluetooth neckband. It's not as detailed, but it's a better source pairing. I think the neckband adds some welcome warmth, and the Note 9 sound pretty anemic driving the CL2s compared to the neckband.

While I agree these sound better with time, I do not think it is reasonable for a product to need 200 hours before it sounds good. Realistically speaking, I'd bet most people don't even spend 200 hours listening to a product in a month, and the vast majority of buyers aren't going to manually burn in their headphones. That's something only us Head-fi crazies do =]

If such burn in is really a requirement, then RHA should be doing so itself. I guess that's kind of what you're saying about the review tour.

A lot of head-fiers have niche ideas and processes about products, but it's important to remember that there are many more buyers who don't post on forums. RHA caters to audiophiles, but it also has a higher mainstream presence than many other companies we talk about here on head-fi.

And I mean, I write for a publication with a broad tech audience, some of whom like to buy expensive gear. In my reviews, should I expect them all to burn in their headphones for 200 hours before writing about them? I think not.

Different strokes. I say all this as someone who honestly thinks the CL2 are among the best headphones he's heard outside of Sennheiser's HE-1.
 
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Nov 7, 2018 at 3:25 AM Post #1,041 of 3,158
Agreed @Napilopez ...

If I were to review the Utopia, I would not be complimentary, as I don't like the tonal balance, that wouldn't make me wrong even if (as is the case) I'd be in the minority...

I just hope people on the tour experiment with different tips and cables outside of those provided in the box.
 
Nov 7, 2018 at 3:29 AM Post #1,042 of 3,158
This is unfair. His impressions are his, no matter how great we think the CL2 are. I do not think his review is factually incorrect

It is up to the reader to determine whether the review is worth taking to heart given the other information available.

I also don't at all agree with the assessmentabout Bluetooth. I have tested the CL2 from a Note 9 as well and I think it sounds better from the Bluetooth neckband. It's not as detailed, but it's a better source pairing. I think the neckband adds some welcome warmth, and the Note 9 sound pretty anemic driving the CL2s compared to the neckband.

While I agree these sound better with time, I do not think it is reasonable for a product to need 200 hours before it sounds good. Realistically speaking, I'd bet most people don't even spend 200 hours listening to a product in a month, and the vast majority of buyers aren't going to manually burn in their headphones. That's something only us Head-fi crazies do =]

If such burn in is really a requirement, then RHA should be doing so itself. I guess that's kind of what you're saying about the review tour.

A lot of head-fiers have niche ideas and processes about products, but it's important to remember that there are many more buyers who don't post on forums. RHA caters to audiophiles, but it also has a higher mainstream presence than many other companies we talk about here on head-fi.

And I mean, I write for a publication with a broad tech audience, some of whom like to buy expensive gear. In my reviews, should I expect them all to burn in their headphones for 200 hours before writing about them? I think not.

Different strokes. I say all this as someone who honestly thinks the CL2 are among the best headphones he's heard outside of Sennheiser's HE-1.
Fair enough. I think these iems are groundbreaking. A real achievement.
Having said that, RHA is just plain horrible at marketing them. :)
 
Nov 7, 2018 at 3:32 AM Post #1,043 of 3,158
So we all need to pitch in to come up with a great album list, so when more half baked, rushed impressions, dressed up as reviews come in, we can collectively laugh it all off and just enjoy the music :wink:
 
Nov 7, 2018 at 4:24 AM Post #1,045 of 3,158
Whoever is in charge of marketing the CL2, should really come read these threads.

That would be me! And I am.

And a lot of the blame lies with RHA. Their whole 7 day review tour they are doing is going to lead to a lot of rushed impressions being out there in the community. It's almost like they do not know much about how their product is performing out in the real world. Fresh CL2's out of the box, being auditioned out of iphones at exhibition shows for starters.

Re: auditioning at shows, unfortunately it was temporally impossible to give them the burn in they deserved before IFA; I'm not exaggerating when I say the ink on the boxes was still wet (I am exaggerating, but you get the picture). Both the EU and North America review tour units had about 20-30 hours on them before they went out; again we're just constrained by time; the CL2 understandably takes quite a while to make and we've been pleasantly surprised by the sheer volume of the response, so we're quite limited as to what's available to send.

I hear you about 7 day review terms; in practise we've relaxed that and will continue to do so. There will be more CL2s available soon so we'll burn them extensively and then maybe add some into the review tours.

Cheers,
Colum
 
Nov 7, 2018 at 8:05 AM Post #1,046 of 3,158
The "review" if we can call it that, is more than half baked. I didn't want to be rude to the man, but yes, if he couldn't tell the difference between the wired and wireless sound quality, he probably shouldn't have been in the position to write the review.
No source was mentioned, and from his impressions I doubt he even had that 21 hours with it he claimed he did.
I personally feel, that you should not be writing a review about a piece of equipment unless you have had a minimum of 200 hours to get to know it properly, let alone 20.
I think stuff like this is a disservice to this community at large.
I can understand different tastes in sound signature, but when basic facts in your review are at odds with what everyone else is experiencing, maybe it should be an occasion for more than a quick pause.

Thanks for the "feedback". Why would I join a tour if I wasn't going to listen to the product as much as I possibly can when it's going to be around for a limited time? Use your head, bud. I leave discussion of 'burn in' out of my reviews for what should be obvious reasons. Visit the Sound Science section of the site to learn more. I only felt the need to mention how long it was used because it wasn't nearly as much time as I would normally spend with a product. Usually the case when it comes to tour units. And that was disclosed right at the beginning of the review.

Regarding wireless use, the source was my Shanling M0. The one mentioned in the area where I mentioned my sources. I didn't see the need to allude to it again in the Bluetooth section since I figured readers would put 2+2 together. My apologies for that assumption. You know what they say about assuming. And it wasn't difficult testing wired vs. wireless since I could swap cables within seconds, music playing through both, volumes matched with my iMM-6. Saying it retains the same signature is not the same as saying I can't tell a difference, or that they sound the same. It was just wholly average either way, and as noted it sounded best wired and through my TEAC. Don't put words in my mouth.

My reviews are my subjective experiences with a product. If you don't like them, wonderful. You don't have to. In the time I had the CL2, I didn't think it was all that great, especially compared to other products I have on hand in a similar price range. Or when compared to the CL1 or CL750 for that matter. I suppose I could have made **** up and shilled it, however, THAT would have been a disservice to this community. I write about what I hear, and what I heard was a decent headphone with some notable flaws. I pointed out what it did well, what it failed at, and gave it a score that I thought was fair. You own it and you clearly adore it. Congratulations. I'm happy for you. Looking forward to reading your in-depth review, whenever it comes to light.

Ps. My experiences aren't "at odds with what everyone else is experiencing". Just the impressions that line up with yours. You also seem to be overlooking that I enjoyed it and think it's a decent product, just not a shining example of what a flagship should be. No need to be offended. :kissing_smiling_eyes:
 
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Nov 7, 2018 at 10:05 AM Post #1,047 of 3,158
On a different note @B9Scrambler - I see the Atlas, Re2000 and CL2 in your signature - how do you think the Atlas compares these two ? Always been curious to try them.

Agreed @Napilopez ...

If I were to review the Utopia, I would not be complimentary, as I don't like the tonal balance, that wouldn't make me wrong even if (as is the case) I'd be in the minority...

I just hope people on the tour experiment with different tips and cables outside of those provided in the box.

Yep, my thoughts exactly. I don't hate the utopia, but i'd be disappointed if I'd bought it at full price. I'd take the HD800S over it. The clear is the better headphone to me and only slightly behind in detail.

Also, the mechanical clipping on the utopia drives me nuts. If you listen at volume, a tiny bit of EQ will make their bass clip and it's kind of ridiculous....

Their speed is great, but heck, I think the CL2 is a more resolving, out of my sources at elast :).
 
Nov 7, 2018 at 10:21 AM Post #1,048 of 3,158
On a different note @B9Scrambler - I see the Atlas, Re2000 and CL2 in your signature - how do you think the Atlas compares these two ? Always been curious to try them.

Atlas is hella bassy but still quite resolving and a lot of fun to listen to. Driver flex/compression is an issue, but other than that they're outstanding. RE2000 Silver is my favorite of the three though. Most balanced and realistic sounding of the bunch. Build doesn't hold a candle to the others though. Feels a lot cheaper than either, despite being the priciest.
 
Nov 7, 2018 at 10:31 AM Post #1,049 of 3,158
Atlas is hella bassy but still quite resolving and a lot of fun to listen to. Driver flex/compression is an issue, but other than that they're outstanding. RE2000 Silver is my favorite of the three though. Most balanced and realistic sounding of the bunch. Build doesn't hold a candle to the others though. Feels a lot cheaper than either, despite being the priciest.

Thanks! Good to know. I already slightly prefer the CL2 to the RE2000 so probably no need for me to rush and try out the Atlas just yet...
 
Nov 7, 2018 at 10:53 AM Post #1,050 of 3,158
That would be me! And I am.



Re: auditioning at shows, unfortunately it was temporally impossible to give them the burn in they deserved before IFA; I'm not exaggerating when I say the ink on the boxes was still wet (I am exaggerating, but you get the picture). Both the EU and North America review tour units had about 20-30 hours on them before they went out; again we're just constrained by time; the CL2 understandably takes quite a while to make and we've been pleasantly surprised by the sheer volume of the response, so we're quite limited as to what's available to send.

I hear you about 7 day review terms; in practise we've relaxed that and will continue to do so. There will be more CL2s available soon so we'll burn them extensively and then maybe add some into the review tours.

Cheers,
Colum
@RHA Team thank you for your reply.
I just have one request, if it is even possible.
Would you be kind enough to provide a frequency measurement of a fresh CL2 out of the box , and again another measurement of the same CL2 after say 200 hours of burn in.
So we can maybe put to rest the argument that we are having.
Edit: or a frequency response for a new CL2, and another one with 100's of hours of use. Whatever would be easier for you.
 
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