[kdphan]

Cheers mate. How's the tidal side of things working with the M11. Its a definite bargain, particularly if that works out OK

Tidal is working out great as well.
Issue I had with AK240 or any AK player is the lack of downloading tidal songs offline.
Not an issue with the M11. This is the fastest UI on any player I've owned.

It's such a great bargain for sub $400 in the classified section.

 

[warriorpoet]

If you haven't tried Prokofiev or Buble' with gold filters yet, you're missing out. Very warm and tubey- feels like a warm blanket and a cup of hot chocolate, a big record console and an easy chair on a crisp fall day. Just way, way too comfortable- lovely. Kleiber's La Traviata MQA is divine with this filter.

Current filter/ tip favorites after ~70 hours of burn-in
Modern pop/ rock listening, general (modern) orchestral, baroque: pink/ pink
hip hop, EDM: red/ green
critical listening/ neutral(ish): green/ red
"comfortable" classical, Romantic era, Americana: gold/ black

 

[gLer]

They are all over the place right now! Early on the midbass loosened up, which was not my favorite thing, but sounded OK, then the treble did all sorts of stuff- it went from fairly clean but unremarkable to absolutely knife-edged piercing to full and robust. Now the bass is moving again (or maybe it was before, but the treble changes were predominant).

I'm kinda bummed about the bass changing again, TBH. I liked it where it was before this last extended burn. Oh well, we'll see where it lands. I have ~30 more hours to go before 100.

I don’t mean to be the voice of reason (or harbinger of doom!) with all this burn-in talk, but to me in all my years of experience with various headphones and head-fi gear I’ve never seen or heard of any full-size headphone (let alone a tiny IEM) that changes sound to the degree you guys are describing here. Either there’s a serious stability issue (or driver consistency issue) with the Aten, or the changes are, on the whole, brain burn-in.

I think the latter is more likely, but it also got me thinking about my extended tests with the Zenith. One thing I found with that driver is how inconsistent it could be from track to track. One track would play beautifully smoothly, with crisp highs and a clear midrange, and the next would throw spears into my brain at similar frequencies.

If the same thing is happening with the Aten, then what you’re hearing is that same inconsistency, unless of course you’re testing with the self same tracks over and over. If that’s the case, then I’d be worried that an IEM can totally change its character, even after 100 hours. Even the most ardent burn in supporter will tell you the overall changes are subtle.

Extreme changes suggest product issues or placebo.

 

[rocko77]

I don’t mean to be the voice of reason (or harbinger of doom!) with all this burn-in talk, but to me in all my years of experience with various headphones and head-fi gear I’ve never seen or heard of any full-size headphone (let alone a tiny IEM) that changes sound to the degree you guys are describing here. Either there’s a serious stability issue (or driver consistency issue) with the Aten, or the changes are, on the whole, brain burn-in.

I think the latter is more likely, but it also got me thinking about my extended tests with the Zenith. One thing I found with that driver is how inconsistent it could be from track to track. One track would play beautifully smoothly, with crisp highs and a clear midrange, and the next would throw spears into my brain at similar frequencies.

If the same thing is happening with the Aten, then what you’re hearing is that same inconsistency, unless of course you’re testing with the self same tracks over and over. If that’s the case, then I’d be worried that an IEM can totally change its character, even after 100 hours. Even the most ardent burn in supporter will tell you the overall changes are subtle.

Extreme changes suggest product issues or placebo.

Well we must all be wrong then. You being the voice of reason and all.

 

[gLer]

Well we must all be wrong then. You being the voice of reason and all.

That’s not at all what I was implying. I was simply curious about the degree of sonic change that seems to be happening with this IEM. It’s highly unusual, even for larger headphones. Didn’t mean to come across as condescending and apologies if I did.

I get this is a unique driver, so the characteristics could indeed be very different to anything else on the market.

 

[rocko77]

That’s not at all what I was implying. I was simply curious about the degree of sonic change that seems to be happening with this IEM. It’s highly unusual, even for larger headphones. Didn’t mean to come across as condescending and apologies if I did.

I get this is a unique driver, so the characteristics could indeed be very different to anything else on the market.

Sorry mate. Just woken up and all that and you know what Monday mornings are like. It's maybe not coming across as subtle in the thread and of course it is subtle, but quite noticeable. Particularly in the 1st phase of owning then.

 

[masterpfa]

I have had my 1st outing into the commute world with my R2's. On the whole this was fine, but I am not sure if it is the base/tip I decided to use (Red/Black) which I had been using for several hours last night and no issues then, or something else, but I have experienced crashing symbols etc which I hadn't noticed before. this has detracted somewhat from my listening pleasure this morning.

But I shall persevere

 

[Ludwig1968]

Have been considering the M11 but was waiting to hear about

Even after nearly 2 weeks my sound continues to change, sometimes they sound smooth and others a little peaky. Might have to put some volume into them for a 24 hour period to get them really flexing

Have been considering the M11 but was waiting to hear about

Even after nearly 2 weeks my sound continues to change, sometimes they sound smooth and others a little peaky. Might have to put some volume into them for a 24 hour period to get them really flexing

I have read these news somewhere on the web, a Pro version of M11 will coming soon.

 

[warriorpoet]

I don’t mean to be the voice of reason (or harbinger of doom!) with all this burn-in talk, but to me in all my years of experience with various headphones and head-fi gear I’ve never seen or heard of any full-size headphone (let alone a tiny IEM) that changes sound to the degree you guys are describing here. Either there’s a serious stability issue (or driver consistency issue) with the Aten, or the changes are, on the whole, brain burn-in.

I think the latter is more likely, but it also got me thinking about my extended tests with the Zenith. One thing I found with that driver is how inconsistent it could be from track to track. One track would play beautifully smoothly, with crisp highs and a clear midrange, and the next would throw spears into my brain at similar frequencies.

If the same thing is happening with the Aten, then what you’re hearing is that same inconsistency, unless of course you’re testing with the self same tracks over and over. If that’s the case, then I’d be worried that an IEM can totally change its character, even after 100 hours. Even the most ardent burn in supporter will tell you the overall changes are subtle.

Extreme changes suggest product issues or placebo.

Since you responded to me, I'll reply directly

I don't think I've ever described radical changes, and if I have, that would not be accurate. What I'm experiencing is not an overall change in SQ as much as resonant peak shifts that, in the case of the treble, changed the overall FR noticeably (and as a result timbre in certain areas, which does impact SQ). In the case of the bass, I'm not sure what's going on. The lower response got cleaner in the midbass, and quantity increased over time. Both have been negative and positive at various points, to my personal taste.

Regarding method, it'd be a silly waste of time to set up a double-blind test at every point along the way, so I've settled for returning to a few reference points in filters and tracks along the way, taking notes at each point (since memory is fickle and often false). Perhaps it's more confusing to share observations along the journey rather than at the beginning and end, and if that is the case, I apologize for any confusion! To be frank, I've never experienced this degree of movement in any audio equipment at any point, or really- nothing substantial at all- so it's a bit exciting and fascinating all rolled up into one. I've not been a burn-in believer until the Aten, and even now I find myself second-guessing, but my notes and the results are what they are.

 

[rocko77]

Since you responded to me, I'll reply directly

I don't think I've ever described radical changes, and if I have, that would not be accurate. What I'm experiencing is not an overall change in SQ as much as resonant peak shifts that, in the case of the treble, changed the overall FR noticeably. In the case of the bass, I'm not sure what's going on. The lower response got cleaner in the midbass, and quantity increased over time. Both have been negative and positive at various points, to my personal taste.

Regarding method, it'd be a silly waste of time to set up a double-blind test at every point along the way, so I've settled for returning to a few reference points in filters and tracks along the way, taking notes at each point (since memory is fickle and often false). Perhaps it's more confusing to share observations along the journey rather than at the beginning and end, and if that is the case, I apologize for any confusion! To be frank, I've never experienced this degree of movement in any audio equipment at any point, or really- nothing substantial at all- so it's a bit exciting and fascinating all rolled up into one. I've not been a burn-in believer until the Aten, and even now I find myself second-guessing, but my notes and the results are what they are.

I've not had this before either. I've been around high end audio my entire life as well as my father was a Hifi nut. By the time I was 16 back in the mid 90s I had a pair of ESL 67 speakers, a Nottingham analogue turntable and a pair of leak monoblocks. Only reason I'm on headphones at the moment is I remember my little brother ruining my dad's KEF 107/2 Raymond Cooke edition speakers when I was young and didn't want that happening to mine now I have kids haha.

 

[gLer]

Since you responded to me, I'll reply directly

I don't think I've ever described radical changes, and if I have, that would not be accurate. What I'm experiencing is not an overall change in SQ as much as resonant peak shifts that, in the case of the treble, changed the overall FR noticeably (and as a result timbre in certain areas, which does impact SQ). In the case of the bass, I'm not sure what's going on. The lower response got cleaner in the midbass, and quantity increased over time. Both have been negative and positive at various points, to my personal taste.

Regarding method, it'd be a silly waste of time to set up a double-blind test at every point along the way, so I've settled for returning to a few reference points in filters and tracks along the way, taking notes at each point (since memory is fickle and often false). Perhaps it's more confusing to share observations along the journey rather than at the beginning and end, and if that is the case, I apologize for any confusion! To be frank, I've never experienced this degree of movement in any audio equipment at any point, or really- nothing substantial at all- so it's a bit exciting and fascinating all rolled up into one. I've not been a burn-in believer until the Aten, and even now I find myself second-guessing, but my notes and the results are what they are.

That’s a great response and exactly why I replied to you specifically because like you I’ve been a burn-in skeptic, though I do admit that there’s definitely something there to some degree with most headphones (be that actual physical burn-in or brain burn-in). But the degree of swings and changes that I’m reading about on this thread seem unusual and quite unique in my experience, so more than anything I’d love to know more about the reasons behind them.

In my review of the Zenith I noted that driver could be very Jekyll and Hyde (and that was after 150+ hours of burn-in), and I suspect in some respects the Aten carries some of those familial traits (though it also seems to have improved on the Zenith on some of the areas I downrated its little brother).

Carry on with your testing and notes. One of the reasons I’m still subscribed to this thread, aside from my interest in IMR, is that I never know what this new IEM will ultimately become, so fluid are the changes!

 

[mw7485]

I don’t mean to be the voice of reason (or harbinger of doom!) with all this burn-in talk, but to me in all my years of experience with various headphones and head-fi gear I’ve never seen or heard of any full-size headphone (let alone a tiny IEM) that changes sound to the degree you guys are describing here. Either there’s a serious stability issue (or driver consistency issue) with the Aten, or the changes are, on the whole, brain burn-in.

I think the latter is more likely, but it also got me thinking about my extended tests with the Zenith. One thing I found with that driver is how inconsistent it could be from track to track. One track would play beautifully smoothly, with crisp highs and a clear midrange, and the next would throw spears into my brain at similar frequencies.

If the same thing is happening with the Aten, then what you’re hearing is that same inconsistency, unless of course you’re testing with the self same tracks over and over. If that’s the case, then I’d be worried that an IEM can totally change its character, even after 100 hours. Even the most ardent burn in supporter will tell you the overall changes are subtle.

Extreme changes suggest product issues or placebo.

It matters little with the end result is achieved through placebo or real effect - after all, I cannot switch between "real" and "pseudo" modes when I listen to something. I hear what I perceive something to sound like, and that is it. In all honesty, I cannot tell if what I hear is the same as everyone else; all I can do is decide what I like to hear and stick to that.

This is the first time I have felt the need to do this - in the past, I have lived with minor changes and accepted them as part of the journey. However, this time I cannot. So I do the only thing I can, and see if the sound changes (or my perception of it) enough for me to find these acceptable after a period of use. I have switched to using pink noise so I am not tempted to peak too often not because it is any better than normal music for this task. If at the end of an arbitrary period my violins "sound right to me", these stay. If the violins continue to sound like children's toys, they go - and I've lost nothing by trying.

 

[rr12267]

Since you responded to me, I'll reply directly

I don't think I've ever described radical changes, and if I have, that would not be accurate. What I'm experiencing is not an overall change in SQ as much as resonant peak shifts that, in the case of the treble, changed the overall FR noticeably (and as a result timbre in certain areas, which does impact SQ). In the case of the bass, I'm not sure what's going on. The lower response got cleaner in the midbass, and quantity increased over time. Both have been negative and positive at various points, to my personal taste.

Regarding method, it'd be a silly waste of time to set up a double-blind test at every point along the way, so I've settled for returning to a few reference points in filters and tracks along the way, taking notes at each point (since memory is fickle and often false). Perhaps it's more confusing to share observations along the journey rather than at the beginning and end, and if that is the case, I apologize for any confusion! To be frank, I've never experienced this degree of movement in any audio equipment at any point, or really- nothing substantial at all- so it's a bit exciting and fascinating all rolled up into one. I've not been a burn-in believer until the Aten, and even now I find myself second-guessing, but my notes and the results are what they are.

Please keep up the good work. It’s interesting to read about your journey. Also when this topic is discussed I never hear folks describe the human condition. I’m not saying this towards you but in general. What mood they are in. Are they revisiting a track because they want to or think they have to. Are they feeling good. Are they experiencing allergies, cold, etc. This also has an effect on how music is heard. You could be listening to the same equipment setup, same track, same volume but would hear things differently. Just my $0.02.

 

[masterpfa]

Its a Cobra release. However, all Cobra binaural releases are distributed through Native DSD. Make sure you select Binaural in the Channel selection if you want the Binaural recording.

Listening to it now,
Absolutely wonderful, thank you for the suggestion

 

[bogginhead]

Received my R2s today After asking Bob his suggestion on a mid-forward but still treble-y sound, I've got the gold bottom / blue top filters w / JVC Spiral Dot combo going at the moment. These things are absolutely a step up from the Zenith in my humble opinion (even before burn-in), making the Zenith now the second best iem I own (I actually sold my FLC8s and Toneking Shockwave III to help pay for the R2s). I can't believe the bass on these guys; it's damn good. Very much enjoying the R2 so far!