IMPRESSIONS: Lavry DA10 XLR out vs. Singlepower MPX3

[BrianS]

I have been meaning to do this comparison in a quiet environment with time to do it for awhile now. I tried to keep most variables the same. I only used 2 favorite cd's as I had to listen to both twice anyway and it's late.

CD's used:
Cirque Du Soleil "Saltimbanco"
The Cars "Shake it up"

Setup:
-hd650 with either zu mobius single ended 1/4" or 2 xlr female connectors
-psaudio upc200 set on high current with flavor 1 to lavry and volex 17604 to rega apollo in one set of power ports with other set of power ports only powering mpx3 with volex 17604
-psaudio upc200 with vhaudio flavor 4 from wall to upc200
-grover digital 1.5m from apollo to lavry
-grover ur7 xlr female to singleended rca singlepower mpx3
-lavry settings: rca, crystal lock, normal, stereo
-mpx3 6cg7 with rca cleartop tubes, solen stage 1 (about 2 years old or more)

Results:
The main difference I heard was in the detail, soundstage, imaging, clarity, vocals and impact departments. I heard more detail on the lavry compared to the mpx3. Music seemed more clear on the lavry vs. the amp. The lavry had more texture to the instruments and vocals and drums. Soundstage was similar on both but imaging seemed more precise balanced straight out of the dac. Separation on the amp seemed to be a bit more blurry than the dac setup. Also speed was noticeably faster on the dac vs the singleended amp. Decay seemed more enjoyable on the singlepower but more true-to-recording with the straight hookup to the dac. Impact and weight was greater on the amp which is to be expected.

Preference: Either is enjoyable but being the detail freak I am, I prefer straight out of the lavry thus bypassing the singlepower. The enhanced speed also would help with trance music.

Notes:
Lavry directly balanced out to hd650
+ detail
+ imaging
+ bass control
+ texture
+ speed
+ separation
+ clarity
+ little more WOW moments where I don’t remember hearing that before
- little bright
- lacks that extra punch

singlepower mpx3 6cg7 around 2 years old (non SE version, non balanced, non SLAM)
+ weight
+ bass impact
+ bass sound
+ emotion
+ vocals/mids?
+ musicality
+ tone
+ decay (…is balanced just too fast?)
+ smooth
- detail
- little blurry with panning sounds

I hope this comparison helps those of you on the fence about this dac. It is an amazing little source I think. I guess all I need/want now is a balanced singlepower tube amp with hd650 or O2.

 

[blessingx]

Good review BrianS. I did a short, but similar comparison of the DA10 straight to HD650 (with balanced Zu and balanced stock cables) versus maxed out non-Slam MPX3 and single ended (Equinox and another stock) and a variety of tubes. Although I did prefer the fuller body and more 'natural sound' of the amp (and didn't notice a change in detail though used only Frank Sinatra and Kate Rusby to test) I couldn't justify the additional expense. The change while present, wasn't substantial enough for me to even consider any amp below the MPX3. It certainly ruled out a PPX3 immediately. Other amps which I've liked quite a bit with other setups (HR2, NX01, etc.) did little but blur the sound compared to the DA10 straight. Another surprise was how good the CD3K (which I've never been a big fan of) sounded out of the headphone jack. Maybe I've finally heard a source that worked well with the CD3Ks highs (though the spectrum shift towards that direction is still a little much for me).

I know when the Lavry first came out many discussed it as a great DAC/amp combo (thus a 'deal'). I also know the Zhaolu stole a little of the DA10s thunder, but I'll say my little experiment with the MPX3 reminded me how great an all in one box it is. It's nice (though rare) to try equipment and be happy with what you've got... and your wallet stays put.

And it's interesting to see that you've come to somewhat similar conclusions.

 

[Scrith]

Nice review. Honestly I'm surprised, given that the electronics in the Lavry for the headphone output probably cost about 1/100th of what those in the MPX3 cost. On the other hand, I think tubes somewhat diminish the quality of the sound (based on my own experience of owning an MPX3 and some very highly rated tubes). To me, the warmth they give is not worth what is lost.

 

[chesebert]

straight wire with gain is the truth. anything that adds "warmth" or other sound artifacts are just distortions and you would most likely loose information with distortion.

If it sounds too bright..blame it on the source/recording/cans

 

[Solude]

Uh oh I can hear Team SinglePower gathering as we speak... RUN BRIAN RUN!

 

[Elephas]

Er, before they get here I'll post something.

I also use a Lavry DA10 and HD650 with Zu Mobius female XLRs. Driven directly from the Lavry's XLR outputs, the HD650 sounds different from normal single-ended operation with either a Lehmann Black Cube Linear or RSA Raptor. It is fuller-sounding, with more body and bassier.

I don't think Lavry XLR > HD650 is more detailed than single-ended amp > HD650.

 

[sacd lover]

First, the 650 benefits in a major way from balanced operation. I havent heard a headphone benefit more from balanced operation. In SE mode I have always ultimately concluded the 650 is to colored and bass heavy with any amp I used. The lavry's balanced operation gives the 650 a much more neutral tonal balance. Moreover, the lack of bass bloat, plus the way balanced opens up the soundstage reveals more detail. In fact, I think this is true of any balanced amp with the 650.

Suggestions .... get a sylvania 6GU7 for $5.50 and put this tube in the gain position. The tube is a drop in replacement; no adapter etc. Then see if you think the mpx3 lacks detail. This sylvania tube could even be to much. I would also get a RCA 6GU7 as well in case the sylvania is over the top.

My second suggestion is to try a senn 580/600 instead of the 650 and see if you notice a change. I sold all my 650's because the sound was to dark and lacking in air and upper register detail retrival. I would expect you to find the 600 in particular to have a better tonal balance and a more revealing and open sound

I believe if you change the gain tube to a 6GU7 and use the senn 600 you will definitely have different impressions.

 

[mulveling]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solude Uh oh I can hear Team SinglePower gathering as we speak... RUN BRIAN RUN!

I don't see why or how Team Singlepower has become charcterized as a forum bully around here lately. I don't recall many (or any) reactionary posts from Singlepower fans. I know I've never reacted when someone states non-favorable impressions for a SP amp. Team SP could be considered as headed by sacd_lover; one of the nicest, helpful, and important contributors to these forums IMO. How could that earn its bad reputation other than for its sheer size?

 

[BrianS]

Thanks for the suggestions Earl. I did note that this is a pretty old amp, even if it has a black chassis and when I got it for a tad over $1,000 I was very impressed and that price was with several options. I am sure Mikhail has improved them through the years and even a base model is somewhere around $1200 now.

Scrith, remember my impressions were based on the xlr out, not the headphone out. IIRC the headphone out was decent but not up to the level of the xlr out or singlepower amp.

 

[Scrith]

Ah, yes, you are using the XLR out, sorry. Still, I'm sure the components for the XLR out on the Lavry are significantly cheaper (and less complicated) than what is inside the MPX3. It could simply be that you don't like what tubes do to sound either (emboldened, I'll now proclaim that, in my experience, tubes are just completely wrong for digital sources...stick to vinyl, tape, or radio with those things!).

The observation about the HD650 sounding significantly better with balanced power matches what I've heard also. I had all but dismissed the HD650 after hearing other high-end headphones in a direct comparison, but, driven by a high-quality balanced amp, it really sounds quite good (approaching R10 levels in some respects, but still a notch below, in my opinion).

 

[steaxauce]

My current setup is Laptop>>M-Audio Audiophile USB>>LavryBlack>>Balanced Cardas>>HD650, and I can definitely say that going balanced made a huge improvement. The HD650 from the Lavry's headphone jack with stock cable was very dull, but doing this made them much more exciting. I still prefer them without the foam, although they are excessively bright like this, and I still miss using my SA5000 straight out of the headphone jack.

I have an RS-1 on the way. Should I go balanced with those, or is their impedance too low for the balanced outputs, which are meant for the much higher loads of preamps? Iron_Dreamer sent me a spreadsheet that shows where clipping occurs with both the headphone output and balanced outputs of the Lavry. I don't really know how to use this information. I mean, there are more variables than where clipping occurs, right? I don't have much knowledge about this stuff, but I'd be happy to show this spreadsheet to whomever wants to see it. Does anyone know what the output impedance of the balanced outputs of the Lavry is?

I have a fairly unrelated question as well. The power in my dorm room isn't so great, and I've been experiencing some performance issues with the Lavry and the M-Audio Audiophile USB. When the Lavry is in Crystal Lock Mode, it makes a very loud (sometimes painful) noise whenever the sample rate changes. This has been happening often, even in the middle of songs. I don't know if this is due to a problem with the Lavry, or a problem with the Audiophile USB, but I do know that it's related to power, because it happens when someone hits the light switch in my room. That's not the only time it happens, though. Can anyone shed some light on this problem? Also, can you guys recommend some cheap power solutions? Thanks a bunch. Maybe I should start my own thread.

One more question: Can the Lavry's balanced outputs drive the K1000? I was looking at trading for one of those.

 

[BrianS]

Scrith, I can agree that the insides of an MPX3 are more complicated than the lavry, afterall, the lavry is just a circuit board.

Steaxauce, I am sure the grado would benefit more than the K1000 but you should get other opinions. I doubt the K1000 would work well at all just going from a balanced dac.
I use a psaudio surge protector that was built for audio but I haven't really tried it without it as I do not want to lose my equipment to a surge just for better sound quality.

You should start a new thread to get better answers as your questions are numerous and complicated.

 

[steaxauce]

Hey, thanks. I forgot to mention something: I'm using the Lavry straight out of the wall, but the Audiophile USB's power supply is connected to a relatively inexpensive (15mA) surge protector. Also, I'm using a 3.4A 9V power supply with the Audiophile USB instead of the stock 1000mA 9V power supply. The manual says that using any power supply other than the stock one can damage the Audiophile USB or degrade performance, but this is the only one I have, since I bought the Audiophile USB used and this is what was included. Is it possible that this could account for the problems I'm having?

 

[PFKMan23]

Hmm.. well given that I own both the units in question (and like them) I was thinking that I should chime in...

Firstly I disagree that tubes are wrong for digital sources. IMO they impart a more lifelike texture to the music, especially given the variety of tubes that can be used in amps, different styles of, and different venues that music can be played in...

That being said as far as single ended operation goes, I do think that the MPX3 outclasses the Lavry. IMO there is no comparison. That being said I do feel that the 650s are overly bassy. However, I think that like with the highs in the CD3k, atlest with respect to what I've heard the 650s bass bloat can also be addressed in single ended operation by the headphone out as well. Atleast in some extent.

Ultimately I think that inveitably that given it's multifunctional nature the Lavry might be a better buy than an MPX3, for me atleast from a pure sonic standpoint, there is no comparison. And that is with several different tubes as well.

 

[steaxauce]

The single ended output of the Lavry is absolutely terrible with high impedance headphones such as the HD650; I can personally attest to that. It does work very well with lower impedance headphones like the SA5000, though. For high impendace headphones, the balanced outputs are much, much better.