Impressions and comparisons affordable tube/valve amps resource
Nov 6, 2016 at 4:36 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 15

srvvzr

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Looking to start a more definitive tube amp review, Impressions and comparisons thread for all those "which is better x or x" threads, encompassing tube amps in the lower to middle of the price road.

I think we would like to see comparisons of the Little Dot MKIII/IV, Bottlehead Crack+Speed Ball, Schiit Valhalla 2, Darkvoice 336se and other OTLs in that price bracket, we may even extend to hybrids such as the Garage1217 Project Ember ii and the Schiit lyr; valve/tube amps in this price bracket are welcome.

This thread would be a good one to have as there is a lot of information on each of these amps, but generally you have to draw conclusions about which is better for you based on these amps vs the woo wa3/6 (or similar) and so your trying to compare a+c and b+c to find out what a+b is like, if you catch my drift. so I'm just trying to make it easier for others to choose which amp will best fit them.

We will try keep this OTL as OT amps are generally more expensive, but as I say, if it's in the price range, its allowed and also good hybrids are allowed :wink: (some people might find the Ember/lyr to be a better fit for them over the speedball crack due to their choice of headphone).

Thanks :D

Unless otherwise stated, Impressions and comparisons I post are from other sites/threads. Plagiarism is not my intention, sometimes I cannot post source or give accreditation, but a quick google will allow you to find my sources


:)
 
Nov 8, 2016 at 1:00 PM Post #2 of 15
A good review by 6moons of the Bottlehead crack non speedball where the crack is not only compared to the Little Dot MKIII but a few other more high end Amps. Caution if you were considering crack vs mkiii, this review may make your decision easier http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews2/bottlehead/2.html
 
Nov 8, 2016 at 5:03 PM Post #3 of 15
I have found a good review of the LF 339 where it is also compared to the crack

http://www.headfonia.com/lafigaro-339-my-fav-otl-a

"Compared to the Bottlehead Crack, the OTL Crack is the faster amp of the two, it it clearer sounding and focuses more on the treble. Bass with the Crack is punchier but not as deep and it doesn’t quite have the same rumble. Overall the 339 is smoother, warmer and laid back with an even bigger sound stage. It just makes you feel the music better (softer) as the crack. The Crack is a great deal and an excellent amp as we already said in our review but the La Figaro 339 is the better amp for me. Compared to the Woo Audio 2, the 339 is the more tube-ish sounding amplifier with a much warmer sound. The WA2 sounds much cleaner and faster but misses the warmth and soul I like of the 339. The WA2 is more analytical as the 339 and the bass depth and rumble isn’t quite the same, however it does have an even bigger sound stage. Most likely a full WA2 review will follow later."
 
Nov 8, 2016 at 6:49 PM Post #4 of 15
336se vs crack speedballed by DefQon on another thread

"While I don't have the HD650's, I do own the HD800 and HD600's(using HD580 headband frame). The HD800 + the Crack w/Speedball is absolutely good for its value. But the HD600 on the other hand sounds equally just as good on my DV 336SE (RCA and GE tube substitutes) and is right on par with the Crack with my ears.



Especially since you listen to a bit of dub and electronic music, if one tube rolls the DV 336SE you get some very wide extended bass out of it. Although it sounds good with my HD600's, I don't find it has enough juice to drive my HD800's as it starts clipping at around 12'o clock on the volume pot, reading from a few sources this isn't really normal might be because my 336 SE ain't stock no more.



Who knows really, but the Crack and 336SE are both good but different flavours. The DV 336SE is warm, wide soundstage and bassy, the Crack is clear, large soundstage as if your in the auditorium and very good extensions to treble and highs without having it rolled off or piercingly bright."
 
Nov 9, 2016 at 12:04 AM Post #5 of 15
Here's a link to SkyLabs ranking of 32 tube amps, maybe the amp youre looking for is in here.

an important fact to consider according to skylab referring to this list is: "the amps ranked from #5 on down are all VERY close in terms of sound quality. From 6 up, some significant jumps begin to occur."

http://www.head-fi.org/t/402585/review-summary-a-ranking-of-32-tube-and-tube-hybrid-headphone-amps
 
Nov 21, 2016 at 11:14 PM Post #7 of 15
Schiit Valhalla 2 (OTL White Cathode Follower)
Neutral, fast, clean, detailed, good staging, good air. A bit lean and la KOcking in macro-dynamics and slam found in the TOTL tube amps. Can be a bit dry sounding and have a sandy quality to the upper registers. Warmed up tubes, laid-back sounding tubes, and a good source (R2R / 2R) can alleviate these characteristics, but it never totally goes away. The Valhalla 2 is good introductory tube amp that pairs well with higher impedance headphones and efficient orthos, but may still be too solid-state sounding for some people. Because of its topology, rolling tubes doesn’t affect the sound as much as it would on a top-notch phonostage. In other words, don’t spend a lot on tubes - buy a better amp instead.


Laconic Night Blues Mini (Transformer Output Push Pull)
Worth it if you can find a native 120V version, or use a step down transformer. You’ll need to smuggle it in from Russia. Best described as a Super 7 junior. Like the Super 7, The NBM is transformer coupled. Also fairly neutral like the Valhalla 2, but more dynamic, sweeter, lusher, smoother, and more liquid. The high end is fantastic on this amp. Good speed, resolution, and staging. Loses out a little bit in the bass region which is slightly blurry. The volume pot is cheap and may not track well. Moving up to the TOTL tube amps will gain you further dynamics and refinement across the board, but this one of the best sounding amps for about $250. The value perspective is insane.


MicroZOTL w/ LPSU (ZOTL Push Pull)
Sounds pretty decent with good tone and timbre – harmonically rich sound. Main issues are mushy, bloomy, ill-defined bass and a flat 2D stage. Has a full and powerful sound, yet is flat sounding (think a commonly loud CD these days - powerful but lacking in dynamic depth). With extended listens, an underlying prickly sound in the upper registers becomes apparent. Tube rolling helps a bit, but two pairs of quality 6SN7 and 12A_7 tubes don’t come cheap these days. The dozen or more screws on the top plate discourage tube rolling. Where the MicroZOTL excels is flexibility, being able to power moderately inefficient orthos, highly efficient speakers, and traditional dynamic headphones.


Feliks Elise (OTL SET)
Mostly neutral, fast, resolving, and has good staging and layering abilities. Has a bit of softness and a good amount of bloom to the sound that can be addressed with the right tubes – to a limited extent. The Elise is the most “wet” sounding amp in this list. The main issue is a noticeable roll-off in the lowest octave with some headphones, and thus it can suffer from a lack of slam, dynamics, and sense of foundation. The bass is more rounded, murkier, and bloomier than the NBM or Valhalla 2. This is not unexpected of an OTL with 45 ohm output impedance. Responds well to tube rolling, but don’t think turning it into a Christmas tree of glowing filaments is going to make this amp competitive with TOTL tube amps. (@Hands opines that this amp is a tier below the NBM. @Marvey opines that the Elise is a tier higher, but different sounding).


Bottlehead Crack (OTL SET - DIY)
Needs speedball. Lots of modding options. Worth pursuing if you want a warm, dynamic, bassy, and fun sound that will give you ****s-and-giggles. Pop in a Tung Sol 5998, a fairly neutral 12AU7 tube, good quality output caps, a PSU choke, and a better volume pot, and it's competitive and worth considering over some amps on this list. Once you "max" it out with mods, it only really suffers from a close-up small stage, lack of bass definition and tautness, and lack of ultimate resolution. Fully pimped out, the Crack is worth consideration over the Elise, MicroZOTL, Lyr 2, Valhalla 2.



Schiit Lyr 2 (Hybrid)
Powerful, thick, warm, cozy, and intimate. The stage is small and close up. More dynamic and full sounding than Valhalla 2, but somehow less emotionally engaging. Less nuanced and articulate from top to bottom, especially on the lower end. Well worth considering if you like warmth and slam and cheap.

Schiit Vali 2 (Hybrid)
The Vali 2 is tonally laid back. A step up from Magni 2 in terms of musical involvement stemming from better microdynamics and resolution. Might actually equal or exceed Lyr 2 in these regards, but the Lyr 2 is still superior in macrodynamics and slam. The bass is slightly soft like the NBM. Having only one tube to roll means tube rolling can be done at a 50% discount (or more because we don’t have to obsess about matched tubes.) This is Schiit's answer to people who bitch that Schiit amps are too aggressive sounding.


Schiit Mjolnir 2 (Hybrid Circlotron Output)
Sounds more like a souped-up Valhalla 2 combined with good traits of the Lyr 2. Very dynamic and powerful sounding, sometimes in ways we've never before from a headphone amp. Maybe the slightest U-shape to the signature, but tastefully done. Rather articulate, resolving, and micro-dynamically nuanced with the right tubes, or it can be rather fun with other tubes (or a mix in between). The only way it falls short from TOTL tube amps is a lack of stage depth and expansiveness, which hurts 3D layering and separation. Can bit a bit etched or dry sounding in the upper registers depending upon tubes, but a marked improvement from the Mjolnir 1. An extremely solid choice under $1K. Can power almost anything, but don't do what Marv did with the Mjolnir 1 and power speakers with it.

ECP Torpedo III (Hybrid Parafeed Transformer Output)
This is a DIY amp, so opinions will vary based on tubes, caps, transformers, current sources, and other mods and tweaks. It's comfortable around TOTL tube amps. A good build will have good staging and layering, albeit a bit more condensed than the best amps. Slightly lush, slightly euphonic, and slightly bloomy. Maybe not quite as dynamic and hard hitting as some amps, but very resolving. Very even and very solid in the bass and the mids. Some builds lacked treble refinement with a brittle high-end, but it’s possible to tweak around this. These nitpicks are relative to TOTL tube amps. As we move up, we get tougher with criticisms. A maxed out Torpedo III is in a higher tier compared to all the amps above.


Eddie CurrentSuper 7 (Transformer Coupled SET – OOP)
Mk1 with the EI core output transformers has a thicker, more powerful, more organic sound. The Mk2 with the double C-cores is more neutral / brighter, smoother, but with less open and airy stage. Both versions are responsive to tube rolling. Replacing the interstage and electrolytic feedback caps with boutique parts will push the performance up to a high ceiling. The sense of dynamics, slam, and overall bass quality outperforms almost everything on this list. Staging can be wonderfully dimensional, layered, and airy. Tone and timbre is spot on. This is on the level where TOTL tube amps offer only extremely diminishing returns. Once a person child going for less than $1000 in the used market, used prices have since recovered and units are now hard to find. Sound quality depends highly on tubes. We can mix and match tubes in the three pairs of the output section to tailor the sound to our preferences. Be prepared to shell out money for 7 NOS 6SN7s, which aren’t cheap anymore.


Not my findings, just a copy and paste from another site. Tried to give proper credit but was not allowed.
 
Nov 25, 2016 at 8:33 PM Post #8 of 15
Right, so I have come to the end of my internet research, these are my findings from sifting through many threads.

I have found that the little dot mkiv, bottlehead crack and g1217 project ember are all on about the same playing field, with each having their own strengths and weaknesses,
 
The speedballed crack is said to destroy all offerings under 1000USD, and is also better value for money then any of the other options.
 
the DV336se is on the same playing field as the Little Dot mkiii, the mkiii is close to (but still behind) the performance of the mkiv.
 
DV332 is better then DV336se but not as good as base crack.
 
DV is warmer but also grainier then Crack
 
LF339 is great if you can afford 4 tubes and over $700+postage, better then speedballed crack in some areas, but the crack still had overall advantage.
 
G1217 ember ii is said to be (in areas) better then schiit lyr2, and ember is defiantly better value for money.
 
if you live in the far away form america or the EU, postage kind of offsets the value/performance ratio of the crack, so where I live (new Zealand) the LD MKIV or the G1217 Project ember are the amps to look at. but if you can spare $75 for postage I would heavily consider the Speedballed crack.

Feliks espressivo is a good amp coming in at the same price as the LD mkiv, but I have seen no A+Bs of the two or any other amp, but imo the feliks looks better.



So guys, after all of this, I must disappoint you and say I am probably go for the G1217 project POLARIS as i have decided I am too poor for tubes and I would become addicted to rolling and modding so it's solid state for me. self-restraint is only possible with major $$$ such as whole amps. so the $200 and some for the polaris seems like a good bet to me.

Maybe I will come back to tubes later in life. or maybe I wont buy the polaris right now... but I doubt that second option.

Thanks for any attention and I hope I have helped others out there on thier quest to valve valhalla.
 
Nov 25, 2016 at 9:24 PM Post #9 of 15
  Schiit Valhalla 2 (OTL White Cathode Follower)
Neutral, fast, clean, detailed, good staging, good air. A bit lean and lacking in macro-dynamics and slam found in the TOTL tube amps. Can be a bit dry sounding and have a sandy quality to the upper registers. Warmed up tubes, laid-back sounding tubes, and a good source (R2R / 2R) can alleviate these characteristics, but it never totally goes away. The Valhalla 2 is good introductory tube amp that pairs well with higher impedance headphones and efficient orthos, but may still be too solid-state sounding for some people. Because of its topology, rolling tubes doesn’t affect the sound as much as it would on a top-notch phonostage. In other words, don’t spend a lot on tubes - buy a better amp instead.


Laconic Night Blues Mini (Transformer Output Push Pull)
Worth it if you can find a native 120V version, or use a step down transformer. You’ll need to smuggle it in from Russia. Best described as a Super 7 junior. Like the Super 7, The NBM is transformer coupled. Also fairly neutral like the Valhalla 2, but more dynamic, sweeter, lusher, smoother, and more liquid. The high end is fantastic on this amp. Good speed, resolution, and staging. Loses out a little bit in the bass region which is slightly blurry. The volume pot is cheap and may not track well. Moving up to the TOTL tube amps will gain you further dynamics and refinement across the board, but this one of the best sounding amps for about $250. The value perspective is insane.


MicroZOTL w/ LPSU (ZOTL Push Pull)
Sounds pretty decent with good tone and timbre – harmonically rich sound. Main issues are mushy, bloomy, ill-defined bass and a flat 2D stage. Has a full and powerful sound, yet is flat sounding (think a commonly loud CD these days - powerful but lacking in dynamic depth). With extended listens, an underlying prickly sound in the upper registers becomes apparent. Tube rolling helps a bit, but two pairs of quality 6SN7 and 12A_7 tubes don’t come cheap these days. The dozen or more screws on the top plate discourage tube rolling. Where the MicroZOTL excels is flexibility, being able to power moderately inefficient orthos, highly efficient speakers, and traditional dynamic headphones.


Feliks Elise (OTL SET)
Mostly neutral, fast, resolving, and has good staging and layering abilities. Has a bit of softness and a good amount of bloom to the sound that can be addressed with the right tubes – to a limited extent. The Elise is the most “wet” sounding amp in this list. The main issue is a noticeable roll-off in the lowest octave with some headphones, and thus it can suffer from a lack of slam, dynamics, and sense of foundation. The bass is more rounded, murkier, and bloomier than the NBM or Valhalla 2. This is not unexpected of an OTL with 45 ohm output impedance. Responds well to tube rolling, but don’t think turning it into a Christmas tree of glowing filaments is going to make this amp competitive with TOTL tube amps. (@Hands opines that this amp is a tier below the NBM. @Marvey opines that the Elise is a tier higher, but different sounding).


Bottlehead Crack (OTL SET - DIY)
Needs speedball. Lots of modding options. Worth pursuing if you want a warm, dynamic, bassy, and fun sound that will give you ****s-and-giggles. Pop in a Tung Sol 5998, a fairly neutral 12AU7 tube, good quality output caps, a PSU choke, and a better volume pot, and it's competitive and worth considering over some amps on this list. Once you "max" it out with mods, it only really suffers from a close-up small stage, lack of bass definition and tautness, and lack of ultimate resolution. Fully pimped out, the Crack is worth consideration over the Elise, MicroZOTL, Lyr 2, Valhalla 2.



Schiit Lyr 2 (Hybrid)
Powerful, thick, warm, cozy, and intimate. The stage is small and close up. More dynamic and full sounding than Valhalla 2, but somehow less emotionally engaging. Less nuanced and articulate from top to bottom, especially on the lower end. Well worth considering if you like warmth and slam and cheap.

Schiit Vali 2 (Hybrid)
The Vali 2 is tonally laid back. A step up from Magni 2 in terms of musical involvement stemming from better microdynamics and resolution. Might actually equal or exceed Lyr 2 in these regards, but the Lyr 2 is still superior in macrodynamics and slam. The bass is slightly soft like the NBM. Having only one tube to roll means tube rolling can be done at a 50% discount (or more because we don’t have to obsess about matched tubes.) This is Schiit's answer to people who bitch that Schiit amps are too aggressive sounding.


Schiit Mjolnir 2 (Hybrid Circlotron Output)
Sounds more like a souped-up Valhalla 2 combined with good traits of the Lyr 2. Very dynamic and powerful sounding, sometimes in ways we've never before from a headphone amp. Maybe the slightest U-shape to the signature, but tastefully done. Rather articulate, resolving, and micro-dynamically nuanced with the right tubes, or it can be rather fun with other tubes (or a mix in between). The only way it falls short from TOTL tube amps is a lack of stage depth and expansiveness, which hurts 3D layering and separation. Can bit a bit etched or dry sounding in the upper registers depending upon tubes, but a marked improvement from the Mjolnir 1. An extremely solid choice under $1K. Can power almost anything, but don't do what Marv did with the Mjolnir 1 and power speakers with it.

ECP Torpedo III (Hybrid Parafeed Transformer Output)
This is a DIY amp, so opinions will vary based on tubes, caps, transformers, current sources, and other mods and tweaks. It's comfortable around TOTL tube amps. A good build will have good staging and layering, albeit a bit more condensed than the best amps. Slightly lush, slightly euphonic, and slightly bloomy. Maybe not quite as dynamic and hard hitting as some amps, but very resolving. Very even and very solid in the bass and the mids. Some builds lacked treble refinement with a brittle high-end, but it’s possible to tweak around this. These nitpicks are relative to TOTL tube amps. As we move up, we get tougher with criticisms. A maxed out Torpedo III is in a higher tier compared to all the amps above.


Eddie CurrentSuper 7 (Transformer Coupled SET – OOP)
Mk1 with the EI core output transformers has a thicker, more powerful, more organic sound. The Mk2 with the double C-cores is more neutral / brighter, smoother, but with less open and airy stage. Both versions are responsive to tube rolling. Replacing the interstage and electrolytic feedback caps with boutique parts will push the performance up to a high ceiling. The sense of dynamics, slam, and overall bass quality outperforms almost everything on this list. Staging can be wonderfully dimensional, layered, and airy. Tone and timbre is spot on. This is on the level where TOTL tube amps offer only extremely diminishing returns. Once a person child going for less than $1000 in the used market, used prices have since recovered and units are now hard to find. Sound quality depends highly on tubes. We can mix and match tubes in the three pairs of the output section to tailor the sound to our preferences. Be prepared to shell out money for 7 NOS 6SN7s, which aren’t cheap anymore.

I appreciate you posting this here, but can't you even bother to change the wording? I mean, this is 100% carbon copied from other sites
 
Nov 26, 2016 at 12:52 AM Post #10 of 15
Can't see how the Valhalla2 could be considered grainy in the top end  Smooth as a baby's bottom as far as I can tell.  Some really popular headphones are a bit grainy in the top end, Valhalla will expose this weakness.
 
First tube amp?  Get the Valhalla 2 and call it a day.  Paired with Multibit Bifrost would be perfect combo too, driving all dynamic headphones with ease.
 
Nov 26, 2016 at 4:38 AM Post #12 of 15
  I appreciate you posting this here, but can't you even bother to change the wording? I mean, this is 100% carbon copied from other sites

this is just a copy and paste from another website, one which I can not mention on headfi, or the post gets deleted, I tried to post with creditation, but I failed
 
Nov 26, 2016 at 12:59 PM Post #13 of 15
Another to check out is Icon Audio.  
 
They are associated with Ming Da of China.  David Shaw heads up Icon in England, and is actually also on the board at Ming Da.  So this isn't your typical rebadged Chinese stuff.  There is a real collaborative relationship between companies, and I can confirm that the Icon products are excellent.  
 
 
I currently use the headphone output of their Stereo20 PP integrated, which has its own dedicated output transformer custom wound by Icon for headphones.  I really, really want to try their HP8, though, which has multiple impedance options and will be better suited to dedicated headphone listening, and driving a more diverse range of headphones.  
 
The output of the Stereo 20 is outstanding, though, if you have a low impedance, high sensitivity headphone.  That is right in its wheelhouse.  Three that come to mind immediately are the Audeze LCD- X (which is what I use with it) and the Hifiman HE-400s, and Edition X.  
 
Nov 26, 2016 at 3:05 PM Post #14 of 15
Can't see how the Valhalla2 could be considered grainy in the top end  Smooth as a baby's bottom as far as I can tell.  Some really popular headphones are a bit grainy in the top end, Valhalla will expose this weakness.

First tube amp?  Get the Valhalla 2 and call it a day.  Paired with Multibit Bifrost would be perfect combo too, driving all dynamic headphones with ease.


From headphonia 336c review (more of a shoot out with the crack "The 336c is warmer, while the Crack is more neutral. The 336c pulls out a little more detail from the sound, but is grainier. The Crack is cleaner, but with the slightest bit less micro detail"

Some parts of the world, shipping schiit is so expensive, for example, shipping cost is 100usd to get it here to new Zealand, which offsets it's price/performance ratio quite a lot (imo) maybe making it not so ideal for a first valve amp for some.
 
Dec 17, 2016 at 8:06 PM Post #15 of 15
Any thoughts on the Bottlehead Sex amps? The new version is coming (3.0), and I'm tempted to order that because it would drive all headphones. Looking like the Crack+ Speedball is tough to beat.
 

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