I'm twisted....

[JamesCanada]

So once again I'm looking for a nice higher end pair of headphones, because... headphones.
Sadly I don't have a local shop where I can purchase and try out high end gear.
I'm torn between 4 pairs :

- Hifiman Sundara
- Audeze LCD-2C
- Focal Elex
- Mr Speaker Aeon Flow Open

Guy's, if you have experience with any, or all of these... please do not hesitate to share your experience.
I stream music, I have a preference for Alternative rock, pop and classic Rock music.
I Like relaxing, sitting and simply listening for 2-3 hours a time.
I Own a PS Audi Sprout, Teac AI-101, Schiit Jotunheim , Oppo Ha-2se (just so i can pair the right equiment...?)
Looking for an eventual Tube amp, but in no rush...

If you have any input, comments... please do not hesitate!

Thanks

James

 

[Monsterzero]

- Hifiman Sundara
- Audeze LCD-2C
- Focal Elex
- Mr Speaker Aeon Flow Open

Sundara-HifiMan makes some of the best sounding headphones out there IMO. They also have some very shady business practices and absolutely ridiculous quality control issues.Buy at your own risk.

LCD-2c-Nice headphone with great sub bass.Sold mine to get a ZMF Atticus.

Focal Elex-Havent heard it,so I cant say much other than I have yet to hear a Focal headphone I was floored by,except for The Utopia.

AFO-Have only heard the closed version.Great tonality,comfortable,interesting styling.Did I mention great tone?Did find myself wanting a bit more impact.To repeat,Im speaking on the AFC.

 

[onevstheworld]

I recently compared the AFO, Sundara and 2C at my local store. All were on a Simaudio Moon Neo 430 HAD using Tidal tracks. The AFO was filter-less. I own the AFO and normally listen with no filter, or the black foam. No experience with the Elex (or any other Focal) unfortunately. Bear in mind, these are my opinions and YMMV.

Sound: Sundara was the most neutral, nice clear sound across all frequencies, and had the biggest sound stage and best imaging of the 3. It doesn't have the same bass impact as the others. AFO and 2C were both warmer but not dark, with great bass without sacrificing mids and treble. Both are very, very similar, with the 2C having slightly better sound stage. In the past, I've also demoed the AFC... it has a leaner sound and less bass impacted compared to the AFO.

Comfort: 2C is heavy, but the head band seems to alleviate it very well, at least for the 30 minutes I had it on my head. Sundara is light, the pads adequate but nothing special, clamp is comfortable. AFO is the definition of comfort... light, thick and plush pads, good pressure distribution across ear pads and head band.

Construction: Sundara is unfortunately last place by a long shot... even though it feels solid adequate, it's construction is primitive and simple compared the others. This is not the company's first attempt at a HP at this price point, but it sure feels like it is. 2C is traditional and unexciting in design, but reassuring solid. It feels like a pair of handmade leather shoes (or luxury handbag). AFO is polished and tight... you can tell a lot of thought has gone into the design phase. It feels like something Apple would make if it gave a crap about headphones.

If I had to pick, I'd be torn between the AFO and 2C... both sound fun and exciting. The Sundara didn't give me that same sense of excitement, plus it's reputation of QC makes me wary.

 

[JamesCanada]

Wow! You have both been a huge help!! Thanks so much.
For some odd reason, i’m leaning more on the 2C’s side.
I’ll continue my research, but you guys have helped a ton

 

[JamesCanada]

And for running them on Tubes? Do you believe they are well paired with tube amps?

 

[Oscar-HiFi]

And for running them on Tubes? Do you believe they are well paired with tube amps?

Most planars prefer a powerful solid state amp, OTL tube amps work best with high impedance dynamics due to their max power delivery being at around 300 Ohms.

Planars tend to be lower impedance and favour high current flow over high voltage (what high impedance dynamics like).

There are some tube hybrids that work very well with Planars, along with very good transformer coupled tube amps but it all depends on your budget.

 

[Monsterzero]

Most planars prefer a powerful solid state amp,

This is mostly true,however the La Figaro 339 does an amazing job with the HE-500s,LCD-2 and some other moderately easy to drive planars.
However for sheer volume and control I would also recommend a solid state amp,unless of course youre willing to dump a big chunk of cash and invest in an amp that uses 300b tubes,such as the Glenn 300b,which apparently is an absolute beast of an amp and can drive most any headphone around.

 

[Oscar-HiFi]

This is mostly true,however the La Figaro 339 does an amazing job with the HE-500s,LCD-2 and some other moderately easy to drive planars.
However for sheer volume and control I would also recommend a solid state amp,unless of course youre willing to dump a big chunk of cash and invest in an amp that uses 300b tubes,such as the Glenn 300b,which apparently is an absolute beast of an amp and can drive most any headphone around.

The Feliks Audio Elise powers the HE-500 wonderfully, but it does cost a bit for a good tube amp for Planars.

 

[lentoviolento]

i had the afo twice and lcd2c. focal elex is not available in italy(but i had elear and it was too shouty for my liking), i skip hifiman because it is built like sh+t and after having 560 and 400i and a pair of iem(i don't remember the model but it sounded inferior to everything i had in my life) i'm not into their analytical, mid bass shy and lean sound. somewhere i wrote that listening to 560 to me was like banging an anorexic girl and it is still the best metaphor that comes in my mind when i think about 560. i used a jot in balanced mode back then... and then tried with audio gd c2..... i won't buy another hifiman ever again.
however, between afo and lcd2c is a tough fight. maybe it depends on your music taste. metallica with afo sounded better than with every other hp for example and bass has a wonderful impact, i ended selling it because it has some sibilant that made me crazy but i'm very sensitive to sibilance. lcd2c is more neutral than lcd2, more musical and detailed.
i sold my afo when i tried m1060(hat is the best bang for the buck hp i 've ever tried). i realized that i was missing some air and detail and suddenly i didn't want to listend to afo anymore. lcd2c lost the fight against atticus.
note that if i was rich, i would have kept all the above.

 

[JamesCanada]

Thanks for the great info guy's,
i keep hearing about the ZMF Atticus, they are THAT good?
They are almost twice the price tho...?

 

[lentoviolento]

Let's say that if you find them at 800 dollars they worth it. Don't underestimate m1060

 

[Monsterzero]

Thanks for the great info guy's,
i keep hearing about the ZMF Atticus, they are THAT good?
They are almost twice the price tho...?

I think the Atticus are "that good" yes,but you can get pretty close for a lot less cash.If money is an issue the HD650/6xx can bring you pretty close to the Atticus,with better imaging,at the cost of some speed and tightness in the midbass and while the Sennheisers do have nice mids,the Atticus is on a whole other level in that department.

Also if youre going to consider the ZMFs I would recommend reading the Atticus thread regarding amping.It can be a bit picky when it comes to amp pairing.

Regarding the Audeze it has similar characteristics as the HD650 and ZMF,but with great sub bass extension and quality,while not thumping as hard as the other two.Of the three
i liked the mids on the Audeze the least.If I were to try and explain the three to someone who has never heard any of them it would be as follows.

HD6xx if youre more into rock
Audeze if youre more into modern pop,hip/hop(anything with lots of sub bass)
Atticus if cost is no object....also factoring in the amping situation.

Others mighht disagree with that over-simplification but thats how I see it.I own/ed all three.

 

[chris.d.m.]

Interesting & helpful thoughts on the Sundara and AOF. I hope to grab a pair of one, or the other, for Studio-Mixing work at some point budget allowing.
Would be glad to hear further impressions.

Amping the Atticus really that much of an issue? Curious about those as well.
Only have the modest Magni Uber here but that thing has a ton of output gain.

 

[lentoviolento]

Interesting & helpful thoughts on the Sundara and AOF. I hope to grab a pair of one, or the other, for Studio-Mixing work at some point budget allowing.
Would be glad to hear further impressions.

Amping the Atticus really that much of an issue? Curious about those as well.
Only have the modest Magni Uber here but that thing has a ton of output gain.

In terms of power my audio gd r2r 11 amps atticus very well, as much as gilmore lite mk2.. I'm not into exotic tube amps. With 400 dollars you can buy a good amp that will drive atticus well and let you enjoy all his strenghts. To my they were mids more than bass even if atticus' mid bass is very good. Bass is not very extended but personally i don't care. Audeze are more into sub bass.

 

[Monsterzero]

Amping the Atticus really that much of an issue?

In terms of power my audio gd r2r 11 amps atticus very well,

I dont think youre getting your moneys worth from the Atticus unless youre prepared to feed it good power. I too have the R2R-11 and I do not find it to be that great. An OTL is what you want...The La Figaro 339 does a very nice job of it,as does old vintage receivers,but the OTLs give it more of a 3D to the sound,whereas vintage gear tends to flatten out the staging a bit.
I find the bass slam on both OTLs and vintage gear to be much better than the R2R-11.

YMMV.