[antonyfirst]

I've basically listened only to IEMs, and now I want to upgrade to a fullsized can. My best IEMs are the Shure E500 and equalized, tube-sounding Etymotic ER4.
I'd like to hear something that sounds, well.. real. Not as warm as the Shure E500, neither cold like unequalized/unamped Etymotic.
I'd like something that sounds like being played from vinyl, and that performs well with Jazz and Rock (even thought they are very different kinds of music).
I've not an amp, and, if possible, I would be happier if I got a portable/transportable combo, which means an headphone that can sound very good out of a portable amp (like the Xin Supermicro).
Last, I want a set of cans that are a NOTICEABLE improvement over the Shure E500, in tonal balance, details, dynamics and soundstage.
I don't want a bassy headphone, neither I want a cold headphone. I have to listen to music, and not only to notes.
I could be interested even in Stax headphones, if they meet the requirements I've already written.

Thank you!

 

[EsthetiX]

From what I have read I understand that Grados are cold, agressive/fast sounding, and fantastic for rock music. As to which ones to decide from.. Well, what's your budget looking like?

 

[iPatcH]

Actually, Grados have always been warm for me... they are perfect for rock too! I've always felt that Grados hold a more "natural" sound in comparison to other phones I've tried, so I think it's a great decision. A Grado SR-225 would be great because it's aggressive and has a punch to it, but not BASSY!

 

[antonyfirst]

As far as I know, Grados have overpowering guitars, something that I really don't like.

 

[MaloS]

Am I like the only person who hates Grados for rock?! My god. I would think for Jazz AND Rock, a natural sounding headphone would be either HD580 or AD2000 or K340, with proper amping. (quality source is assumed). The thing is that HD580 is a bit slow, and I have yet to see someone take AD2000 all the way to its full potential (Its tonality is similar to omega 2 so it can be very interesting thing to play with). K340 is just damn musical, warm, smooth, and Jazz/Rock are quoted to be its primary strengths.

Now what the OP told me outside was that he wants a Vinyl like sound - and this is where things get a bit hard. First of all the only way to get something to sound Vinyl-like is a need for a very smooth and detailed DAC. For example Benchmark DAC did not sound like Vinyl to me, although it is certainly an amazing source, but the Emperical Audio modded DACs BOTH sounded vinyl...but that is expensive as hell. My DA100 has very similar amount of presence as that provided by vinyl, but ya, of course, I am obviously not biased here. So that can get weird...some people say Ori-Modded Zhalou sounds Vinyl, and I was not under that impression...prolly due to the crappy conditions I listened to it at though.

Next - amplification, and once again, this can get weird. I personally feel to get closer to that type of sound you need a tube amp, but not a tubey tube amp. Neutral, punchy, PRATy tube amp, fast amplifer. The amazing sense of presence comes from the transients that are flawless in vinyl rigs - and slowing them down is making things sound veiled (sennheisery)... no bashing though, a balanced hd600 on Ray Samuels vinyl rig was one of the most amazing things I heard, but also hellishly expensive. Next? Well - lots to play with. Harmonic texture, speed, extension, tonal balance...

Trying to get closer to vynil is basically emphasizing all those qualities...going vinyl is easier if you have the music available to you lol.

In the end - I feel the best contenders would probably be Stax, but only the high-end, which I believe the OP cannot afford? I feel that personally the best choices to play with here are the AD2000, HD600, and K340, but K340 is not something to start with, so I'd brush it aside for time being. HD600 needs a more capable amp, while AD2000 is more expensive in itself, both are good choices though. This personally gets me thinking about trying AD2000, as its tonality was similar to Omega 2 to my ear, and I am deducing that then it would have to be driven with similar amplification tonally. AD2000 + RSA Raptor or Darkvoice 337 could result in very interesting combinations..., and these are just examples. (I think Raptor with its brightness would be more appropriate as AD2000 lies on the dark side...

) These are expensive options, but I am sure there are cheaper options from other amp designers that could certainly work very well too.

 

[Claus-DK]

If you want soundstage the dt880 is a good choice, they are very different than the e500, they are nothing like the d-JAYS (I know you do not like their signature).

I mostly use mine when I walk the baby and it is impressive how natural they sound (to me at least) I do not find them to be cold or sterile in any way, as some might say, they are in no way for bassheads, but they do have a nice and firm bass..

Normaly I really like the D-jays signature, but for a relaxing walk they are perfect for me i also use them when I am fishing and other times when I want to "chill out" to me they are my "relaxphones"..

I power mine with the x1 amp set on it's highest gain, this combo works for me because the amp is making it more musical and not so sterile as they sound straitgth from my Ipod, also the Ipod have to little "umfh" to drive them properly, when I watch movies they get powered by my Phillips headamp and it also makes them less sterile than my normalamplifier does, but it colours the sound in an other way than the x1..

The X1 adds musicality in lack of better words and my phillips makes them more full and adds primaryli bass and midtone...
Or as my wife say about the X1 combo "It sounds like the music is made for the phones and not visa versa" that is when she listens to Andrea Bocelli "con te partio".

Happy hunting

 

[grndslm]

Unamped: MS-1 or SR-225 depending on price range (RP-21 w/better SQ or MDR-V6 w/better portability are both closed)

Amped: DT770/880/990 (prolly not 770 since you'd rather tone the bass down)

Supposedly all of these respond somewhat well to amping other than the RP-21.

 

[catscratch]

I don't know which Stax would be a contender for this, out of the modern lineup anyway, but I can tell you certainly which Stax phones are NOT contenders - the SR-001, SR-003, SR-303, and SR-404. The 001/003 have a tonal balance that's entirely too warm (warmer than the E500), and the 303/404 don't have the realism, though they do have most of the virtues that you're looking for. I still wouldn't recommend them, though.

I think a K340 might work for you, but given the massive sonic discreptancies between individual sets and different versions, you'll never really know if the one you're buying sounds the way you want. My K340 gives me a sound that's pretty close to what you're describing - it sounds, well, real - but my specific pair is an infernally bright headphone, and only the warmest tube amp that I could find can balance it out.

Basically, the K340 might be a good place to begin, but you'll have to experiment with system matching based on how your pair sounds like to get at the sound you'd want.

Other things that, in my opinion, will definitely NOT work for you:

HD580/600/650 - they're good for slow rock and jazz, but for anything that requires fast transient response and instrument separation they're just too slow. When everything is minimal they perform very well, but when the music picks up and gets going, they start tripping over their own feet. I use the HD600 on acoustic and ambient music, but I wouldn't use it for rock.

DT770 - don't even go there, this is NOT a step up from the E500. A very good gaming and movie headphone, and a decent music headphone, but you want something more high end.

Strangely enough, I get basically the sound that I want out of a full-size rig... out of the ES2. Much like the K340, it just sounds right, and makes me forget that I'm listening to a system in the first place. It's tonally tilted the other way (quite warm), but it has a stunning combination of virtues - speed, impact, correct tone and tembre, detail, instrument separation, and amazing deep bass presense - and not too many weaknesses. I still wouldn't recommend it for your needs, though.

 

[MaloS]

I meant the O2 for the Stax line - its tonality is on the darker side and FASTER than the 404 from my impressions...just need to hear it from Blue Hawaii or ES-1, but the resulting setup is EXPENSIVE. HD600 does not work in single-ended, but in balanced, Ray's amps made it rock so I honestly shouldn't complain about that one. Alot of high end stuff is inevitably close with correct system match, but thats what high end strives for...

... ugh, we can argue about that in person cause we sure as hell will

 

[antonyfirst]

Quote:

Originally Posted by catscratch /img/forum/go_quote.gif I don't know which Stax would be a contender for this, out of the modern lineup anyway, but I can tell you certainly which Stax phones are NOT contenders - the SR-001, SR-003, SR-303, and SR-404. The 001/003 have a tonal balance that's entirely too warm (warmer than the E500), and the 303/404 don't have the realism, though they do have most of the virtues that you're looking for. I still wouldn't recommend them, though. I think a K340 might work for you, but given the massive sonic discreptancies between individual sets and different versions, you'll never really know if the one you're buying sounds the way you want. My K340 gives me a sound that's pretty close to what you're describing - it sounds, well, real - but my specific pair is an infernally bright headphone, and only the warmest tube amp that I could find can balance it out. Basically, the K340 might be a good place to begin, but you'll have to experiment with system matching based on how your pair sounds like to get at the sound you'd want. Other things that, in my opinion, will definitely NOT work for you: HD580/600/650 - they're good for slow rock and jazz, but for anything that requires fast transient response and instrument separation they're just too slow. When everything is minimal they perform very well, but when the music picks up and gets going, they start tripping over their own feet. I use the HD600 on acoustic and ambient music, but I wouldn't use it for rock. DT770 - don't even go there, this is NOT a step up from the E500. A very good gaming and movie headphone, and a decent music headphone, but you want something more high end. Strangely enough, I get basically the sound that I want out of a full-size rig... out of the ES2. Much like the K340, it just sounds right, and makes me forget that I'm listening to a system in the first place. It's tonally tilted the other way (quite warm), but it has a stunning combination of virtues - speed, impact, correct tone and tembre, detail, instrument separation, and amazing deep bass presense - and not too many weaknesses. I still wouldn't recommend it for your needs, though.

I'd love if you gave a listen to the Westone 3, when they come out.

 

[tbonner1]

Tough order as I like the E500.

But the soundstage of the Senn 650 or AKG 701 is better than the Shure soundstage.

 

[wavefunction]

DT880 is a good headphone for Jazz in my opinion. Great detail. However they are quite sensitive to bad recordings. (For example, Miles Davis Kind of Blue is unbearable for me on DT880 because you hear the noise/hiss from recording too clearly) Edit: This was probably a poor example, on that particular recording the hiss is heard on virtually every phone i'd guess.

 

[IPodPJ]

I have recently made the switch from high-end IEMs to fullsize, and it seems like there is no going back for me. Now the crap is really going to hit the fan, as desktop equipment is a lot more expensive than portable.... oh brudder.

I have always liked the sound of Sony full-size cans (since the debut of the CD1K/3K) with > 50mm drivers. I just picked up a pair of 7509HD about a month ago from J&R music world for $198, which is a great price for cans that originally retailed at $350 or more. After about 40 hours of burn in, they sound incredible, but require a lot of power to sound great. If you are going to be wearing cans for extended periods, I strongly recommend circumaural (around the ear).

Best of luck to you and your wallet.

 

[papomaster]

IPodPJ, how would you describe the sound of the 7509, since (I think) you are the first one here to own them? Lots of people use or have used the 7506 but wanted to try something else as they bought more expesive ones.