[Jefecesti]

What input/output is on the right side on the volyme knob?

 

[Shane D]

What input/output is on the right side on the volyme knob?

I think it is the IR for the remote.

 

[Jefecesti]

I think it is the IR for the remote.

Should it be a hole?

 

[Shane D]

Should it be a hole?

No, it should be a port with a glass or plastic disc covering the hole, to keep dust/dirt out.

 

[technobear]

I now have a Pro iCAN Signature. Yay!

It sounds great but I have had a couple of issues with it.

Firstly it came without a battery for the remote control. There is no mention of the remote control in the user manual and I can’t find anything among the FAQs and what-not on the iFi website so I’ve opened a support ticket to find out what sort of battery is required and which way round to fit it. This is really disappointing for a brand new product (and also contravenes the UK Sale Of Goods Act – anything which needs a battery must be supplied with one).

Secondly and rather more annoyingly, the iPower Elite is noisy as Hell but not in a way that will disturb most kit. My guess is that it is putting some very high frequency noise into the ground plane and this is getting through the Pro iCAN Sig and down the interconnect to my XTZ Edge A2-300 Class D power amp where it is causing a nasty interaction resulting in a loud hiss from the amp through the speakers. This only happens when Pro iCAN Sig is turned on and connected to the power amp. It is not going through the mains to the power amp. It is independent of any settings of knobs and switches on the Pro iCAN Sig.

On the plus side, there are no such problems when connecting the Pro iCAN Sig to a micro iCAN (Class A) or to the Arcam A32 integrated I also have (Class A/B). It’s dead silent.

This is a shame as I really wanted the XTZ to stay in the AV system. It is however not it’s first run-in with an iFi iPower PSU. I forget what the iPower was powering last time but it was putting noise back into the mains which was following ground to the PC, then along the USB cable to the DAC (an RME which wasn’t bothered) and then along the RCA interconnect to the XTZ which buzzed and hummed and burbled whenever the iPower was turned on. On that occasion I fixed it with an iGalvanic3.0 (which I still use). I’m not sure who to blame here. Clearly the XTZ is sensitive to ultrasonics on its analogue inputs but also how can the iPower PSU, an Elite in this case, claim to be vanishing low noise while clearly putting out unwanted high frequency noise?

Anyway, the Arcam A32 will go back into the AV cabinet. The XTZ will go back to the second system and hopefully I will soon have a working remote control for the Pro iCAN Sig.

It’s early days and needs to burn in but it sounds great so far.

 

[technobear]

I've had another look at this remote control for the Pro iCAN Sig. It does in fact state on the label on the reverse side that it needs a CR2025.

Meantime I've had a reply to my ticket at iFi Support telling me it needs a CR2032.

They also failed to tell me which way up to put it.

Would any Pro iCAN Sig owners here care to tell me the right way to insert the right battery?

For the avoidance of doubt, I'm talking about this one:

 

[BlueSkyHi]

The back of the remote details what battery you need (CR2025). Here is a pic for your use. Positive toward the back side of the remote as pictured. (PS. I don't think you could shoe-horn a CR2032 in there.)

 

[technobear]

The back of the remote details what battery you need (CR2025). Here is a pic for your use. Positive toward the back side of the remote as pictured. (PS. I don't think you could shoe-horn a CR2032 in there.)

Perfect. Thank you.

 

[BlueSkyHi]

You're welcome. As I recall my remote did not have a battery in it either but we don't have protections in the US like you seem to have in the UK.

 

[Hickory Deadglove]

I'm also a new user of an Pro Ican Sig to match my non-sig Pro IDSD.
The remote control work with my Win 10/Foobar 2000, i suppose via the USB connection of the Pro IDSD. The previous/next track buttons work correctly but the pause/play of the remote sometime disagree with the win/foobar combo, not systemically like a typical computer conflict but maybe 20% of the time. Anybody have this problem?

 

[Doctor HiFi]

I've currently added a Cayin HA-300MK2 tube amp to my Pro iDSD Sig. + Pro iCAN Sig. chain which (now) serve as my DAC and preamp, respectively, but am struggling to find some specs on my iDSD and iCAN to be able to set the volume knob on my iCAN to output the right voltage to the Cayin amp and get the best out of the whole chain. I'd appreciate if you guys could let me know if you have any of those missing values, or if you can offer any other advice/info that may be helpful.

The following is the conditions of my setup and what is known to me:

• Cayin amp input voltage and sensitivity: 400 mV, 50 kΩ
• iDSD nominal max output voltage (XLR): 4.6 V (not sure whether this value is for 0dB gain on iDSD, i.e., does the gain setting have any impact on the DAC (line-out) output or it's only impacting the headphone amp output? It's worth noting that the gain setting on iCAN is not only for the headphone output but also for line-out).
• iCAN nominal max output voltage: <23 V (@600Ω). On iFi's website (FAQ page), 20V is mentioned for XLR line-out (max undistorted output as a combination of volume control and gain setting). I assume this relates to the gain setting of 18 dB, as theoretically with the lowest one (0 dB) the max output voltage shouldn't exceed 4.6 V. Or am I wrong?
• iDSD output impedance?
• iCAN input impedance and sensitivity?
• iCAN output impedance: seems to be 3.2 Ω according to a 3rd party measurement, but no official data could be found from iFi.

To keep it simple, I tried to calculate the output voltage of iCAN using the following formula, but I have made a number of assumptions and simplifications as you may read in the text above:

Vout = (Vin × 10^(dB/20)) / (1 + (Zout/Zin))

Where:

• Vin is the max output voltage the iDSD
• dB is the gain on iCAN (in dB)
• Zout is the output impedance of the iCAN
• Zin is the input impedance of the amplifier
• Vout is the output voltage of iCAN to the Cayin amp

There comes a few more questions:

• Should I take the input sensitivity and impedance of iCAN into account when calculating Vin for the formula above, or should I keep it simple? (as I do not have the values).
• Can I assume that the volume knob on iCAN increases the output voltage to the Cayin amp in a rather linear way (say, 12 o'clock meaning 50% of max output voltage?
• etc.

I currently keep the volume knob on the iCAN at about 10% to output a max. nominal voltage of 0.46 V. In case my assumptions are incorrect and the worst case scenario comes into picture, iCAN will output a bit less than 2 V which is not crazy high either. But it's worth mentioning that initially I used to keep the volume knob at ~25%-30% and all my headphones sounded good without any noticeable issues. If my assumptions are right, at 25% (9 o'clock) iCAN should output about 1.15 V, which is about 3 times higher than input sensitivity of the Cayin amp, an advised range within the community and a safe ratio to work with. However, when increasing to higher volumes (say 50% or higher) I could hear distortion and obviously the increments on the Cayin amps volume were much bigger per step. Similarly, when I connected the Cayin amp to iDSD line-out directly (fixed, nominal 4.6 V) I had to decrease the volume on my Cayin amp to very very low (probably 2-3 steps, 7-8 o'clock, only was already loud on a 300Ω high impedance headphone), as each step was a huge increase in volume. Accordingly, excluding iCAN from the chain won't solve the problem because then I have to switch to Variable HiFi mode and play with the volume knob on iDSD to get to the right output voltage.

Also, worth mentioning that I use the XLR outputs on both iDSD and iCAN and, therefore, my calculations all consider the related values and specs.

 

[technobear]

I've currently added a Cayin HA-300MK2 tube amp to my Pro iDSD Sig. + Pro iCAN Sig. chain which (now) serve as my DAC and preamp, respectively, but am struggling to find some specs on my iDSD and iCAN to be able to set the volume knob on my iCAN to output the right voltage to the Cayin amp and get the best out of the whole chain. I'd appreciate if you guys could let me know if you have any of those missing values, or if you can offer any other advice/info that may be helpful.

The following is the conditions of my setup and what is known to me:

• Cayin amp input voltage and sensitivity: 400 mV, 50 kΩ
• iDSD nominal max output voltage (XLR): 4.6 V (not sure whether this value is for 0dB gain on iDSD, i.e., does the gain setting have any impact on the DAC (line-out) output or it's only impacting the headphone amp output? It's worth noting that the gain setting on iCAN is not only for the headphone output but also for line-out).
• iCAN nominal max output voltage: <23 V (@600Ω). On iFi's website (FAQ page), 20V is mentioned for XLR line-out (max undistorted output as a combination of volume control and gain setting). I assume this relates to the gain setting of 18 dB, as theoretically with the lowest one (0 dB) the max output voltage shouldn't exceed 4.6 V. Or am I wrong?
• iDSD output impedance?
• iCAN input impedance and sensitivity?
• iCAN output impedance: seems to be 3.2 Ω according to a 3rd party measurement, but no official data could be found from iFi.

To keep it simple, I tried to calculate the output voltage of iCAN using the following formula, but I have made a number of assumptions and simplifications as you may read in the text above:

Vout = (Vin × 10^(dB/20)) / (1 + (Zout/Zin))

Where:

• Vin is the max output voltage the iDSD
• dB is the gain on iCAN (in dB)
• Zout is the output impedance of the iCAN
• Zin is the input impedance of the amplifier
• Vout is the output voltage of iCAN to the Cayin amp

There comes a few more questions:

• Should I take the input sensitivity and impedance of iCAN into account when calculating Vin for the formula above, or should I keep it simple? (as I do not have the values).
• Can I assume that the volume knob on iCAN increases the output voltage to the Cayin amp in a rather linear way (say, 12 o'clock meaning 50% of max output voltage?
• etc.

I currently keep the volume knob on the iCAN at about 10% to output a max. nominal voltage of 0.46 V. In case my assumptions are incorrect and the worst case scenario comes into picture, iCAN will output a bit less than 2 V which is not crazy high either. But it's worth mentioning that initially I used to keep the volume knob at ~25%-30% and all my headphones sounded good without any noticeable issues. If my assumptions are right, at 25% (9 o'clock) iCAN should output about 1.15 V, which is about 3 times higher than input sensitivity of the Cayin amp, an advised range within the community and a safe ratio to work with. However, when increasing to higher volumes (say 50% or higher) I could hear distortion and obviously the increments on the Cayin amps volume were much bigger per step. Similarly, when I connected the Cayin amp to iDSD line-out directly (fixed, nominal 4.6 V) I had to decrease the volume on my Cayin amp to very very low (probably 2-3 steps, 7-8 o'clock, only was already loud on a 300Ω high impedance headphone), as each step was a huge increase in volume. Accordingly, excluding iCAN from the chain won't solve the problem because then I have to switch to Variable HiFi mode and play with the volume knob on iDSD to get to the right output voltage.

Also, worth mentioning that I use the XLR outputs on both iDSD and iCAN and, therefore, my calculations all consider the related values and specs.

Forget your calculations and forget impedances. You are massively overthinking this (are you an engineer?).

The input sensitivity of the Cayin is merely the input you need in order to get maximum output when the volume control is at maximum. Higher inputs are fine. Certainly 2.3V (4.6V balanced) shouldn't trouble it at all. Just turn the volume down.

From the iDSD you need 0dB gain since 2.3V (4.6V) is already enough.

From the iCAN you need 0dB gain for the same reason. Turn the iCAN volume to maximum.

If this gives you too small a volume control range on the Cayin before it is too loud, then reduce the volume on the iCAN until a reasonable range is achieved.

If the volume control on the Cayin is still too coarse then use the volume control on the iCAN for finer adjustments.

Don't turn the iCAN down any more than you have to as this will decrease signal to noise ratio (the Cayin will be more noticeably amplifying the noise floor of the iCAN).

 

[Doctor HiFi]

Forget your calculations and forget impedances. You are massively overthinking this (are you an engineer?).

The input sensitivity of the Cayin is merely the input you need in order to get maximum output when the volume control is at maximum. Higher inputs are fine. Certainly 2.3V (4.6V balanced) shouldn't trouble it at all. Just turn the volume down.

From the iDSD you need 0dB gain since 2.3V (4.6V) is already enough.

From the iCAN you need 0dB gain for the same reason. Turn the iCAN volume to maximum.

If this gives you too small a volume control range on the Cayin before it is too loud, then reduce the volume on the iCAN until a reasonable range is achieved.

If the volume control on the Cayin is still too coarse then use the volume control on the iCAN for finer adjustments.

Don't turn the iCAN down any more than you have to as this will decrease signal to noise ratio (the Cayin will be more noticeably amplifying the noise floor of the iCAN).

You're right. I know I'm overthinking it. And yes, unfortunately , I'm an engineer (not audio) with a PhD in Science and Engineering. So, I guess I can't help overthinking it until solving the riddle (at least for myself; it's a hobby in the end). It sucks to be that and also an audiophile, right?

I just do not want to exceed the range on the iCAN voltage output where my Cayin amp is overdriven unnecessarily, i.e. know my technically-sound and safe range to play with when playing with the volume knobs as you also indicated.

Keeping it very simple, if I can have confirmation from iFi that the input voltage of iCAN is 4.6 V by default (no gain stage engaged) when iDSD outputs 4.6 V the rest of the calculation is easy for me. Maybe I should send them an email.

Then I can indeed follow your advise in the safe volume range and even (one-step further with the variable output on the iDSD and its volume knob) find the optimal range on them all according to my listening taste. I don't want to just rely on my ears on that but take the right technical approach to get the best out of the whole chain.

Thank you indeed though for your engagement in the discussion. No one knows everything, every advice is something new to learn from Would be glad to hear more from you and your experience, certainly.

 

[technobear]

You're right. I know I'm overthinking it. And yes, unfortunately , I'm an engineer (not audio) with a PhD in Science and Engineering. So, I guess I can't help overthinking it until solving the riddle (at least for myself; it's hobby in the end). It sucks to be that and also an audiophile, right?

I just do not want to exceed the range on the iCAN voltage output where my Cayin amp is overdriven unnecessarily, i.e. know my technically-sound and safe range to play with when playing with the volume knobs as you also indicated.

Keeping it very simple, if I can have confirmation from iFi that the input voltage of iCAN is 4.6 V by default (no gain stage engaged) when iDSD outputs 4.6 V the rest of the calculation is easy for me. Maybe I should send them an email.

Then I can indeed follow your advise in the safe volume range and even (one-step further with the variable output on the iDSD and its volume knob) find the optimal range on them all according to my listening taste. I don't want to just rely on my ears on that but take the right technical approach to get the best out of the whole chain.

Thank you indeed though for your engagement in the discussion. No one knows everything, every advice is something new to learn from Would be glad to hear more from you and your experience, certainly.

It does say in the Pro iDSD manual that it will output 2.3V single ended or 4.6V balanced when the output selector is set to 'HiFi Fixed' on the back panel so you are good to go.

I would avoid turning down the Pro iDSD for the same reason as keeping the Pro iCAN volume control as high as you can. This avoids reducing the signal with respect to the noise floor. Keep the Pro iDSD in 'HiFi Fixed' mode.

Your PhD outweighs my humble BSc so definitely overthinking it

 

[iFi audio]

It does say in the Pro iDSD manual that it will output 2.3V single ended or 4.6V balanced when the output selector is set to 'HiFi Fixed' on the back panel so you are good to go.

That's what our manual says indeed

I've currently added a Cayin HA-300MK2 tube amp to my Pro iDSD Sig. + Pro iCAN Sig. chain which (now) serve as my DAC and preamp, respectively, but am struggling to find some specs on my iDSD and iCAN to be able to set the volume knob on my iCAN to output the right voltage to the Cayin amp and get the best out of the whole chain.

Since your Cayin has its own volume control, the odds are that the best sound you'd get by connecting this amp directly to Pro iDSD (set in the fixed mode to bypass its own volume control), so without Pro iCAN in-between. Unless the goal is to use all three at once?