[whitedragem]

I'm 100% happy with the Diablo, with my only prior DAC/amp experience being a Chord Mojo. I like the the pairing of the Diablo with both my ZMF Auteur and Sennheiser HD6XX. I'll likely replace my 3rd headphone (HiFiMan Auteur) with something better suited for classical (800S or ATH-ADX5000) later this year. Getting a new headphone likely takes priority over a desktop DAC/amp combo simply because my listening setup lends itself more to use of a portable DAC/amp.

I assumed the Ares II would definitely produce a different sound sig from my Diablo; for an amp to pair with it, the build quality is a fairly big priority for me. I think I'm looking at combined DAC/solid-state-amp cost in the $1500 to $2000 range.

My understanding is that a real difference would be heard with an ampsandsound tube amp, but that raises the overall cost to $3500. That's likely a target a couple years down the road.

There has been some good replies to your first post on this topic (question), and to follow the theme:

Having listened to the Ares 2 it does outclass the Diablo (but not by as much as one might think).. the power shielding and rectification onboard hasn’t been given the love of the models further up the lineup and might require a nice power setup in your house (eg I use a PS audio regen box for critical front end kit). The Ares 2 I listened to suffered much from power source, in ways that the Diablo NEVER WILL.
Now as to ACTUAL audio quality: the Diablo ‘pseudo ladders’ (top ‘six bit’ has an out of order code processing that actually extends the capability of the BurrBrown PCM1793 DAC chips to well beyond their ’white sheet’ specifications) and for the most significant audio range the Diablo sounds like the Ares 2. (somewhere in the midrange the Diablo loses its ability to ‘equal’ the Ares 2.
Of course the Ares 2 isn’t a headphone amp, which throws the value proposition of the Diablo into the ‘crazy good’ territory. The GTO filter is the kicker that tips the favour into the Diablos court.

The Diablo is a GREAT DAC
The Diablo amp can easily be bested- a Burson amp slays it!
To be fair: 7kilograms does that in audio........

The Diablo into the Burson was a sound upgrade (not as much of an upgrade as an M11+ into the Burson- the THX amps in the M11+ can’t touch the Diablo for Sound Quality).
All of these amps can drive all of my headphones comfortably (although I never tried AKGk612s on the M11+ cause they are at 3pm on Turbo on the Diablo and I am able to enjoy Returnal (PS5 game) at 100% volume on the 8watt ‘class A’ Burson unit... (no point putting them on the weak ass THX chips)

If I had a Diablo (I do), figuring out ‘what upgrade’ (either DAC/amp) to buy next would have to depend on the setup it feeds.
The Diablo, lacking an analogue input, might lack functions that you need, whereas sidegrading a DAC to the Ares 2 wouldn’t technically give you anything (other than full laddered ‘nuance’).

BECAUSE the Diablo gets the critical ‘humans are super sensitive’ to high frequency detail range RIGHT, it is ‘like a ladder DAC’ where it matters...
That is enough for a pass- I’d suggest focus on other stuff (like headphones or speakers, or TRANSPORT) until you can buy an upgrade that justifies the investment (of course we all ascribe the actual value of money, to us as individuals, differently.. an unemployed single parent probably isn’t going to ‘sidegrade’ hifi...)

A transport quality upgrade will net more of a Sound Quality change (between a Diablo and an Ares 2) than the actual DACs would render from an ‘average transport’.
(an exceptional TRANSPORT will improve the quality of the digital fed into the DAC, and hence allow the parts to ‘properly scale’ to their respective quality segments).

 

[some dude]

I’ve been using the micro signature but have a Diablo coming soon. The reviews here have me pretty excited to try it out. After a bit of use I’ll have to do a little comparison write up for anyone on the fence one way or the other.

 

[OCC7N]

I’ve been using the micro signature but have a Diablo coming soon. The reviews here have me pretty excited to try it out. After a bit of use I’ll have to do a little comparison write up for anyone on the fence one way or the other.

I have tested a couple of dacs and amps, even up against the old iDSD Pro(not signature) the diablo is better to my ears. Also better than the ZEN CAN/DAC stack V1, which I upgraded from.

I have been looking for a lot of reviews about Ares 2, mostly people are saying it is suffering in the highs(but mids are very good). I did not try it myself. I really want to though.

I have only played/tried music in eco mode (volume mostly 50-75%) mode with Diablo. It will get even more engaging/dynamic in normal I have heard.

 

[whitedragem]

I have tested a couple of dacs and amps, even up against the old iDSD Pro(not signature) the diablo is better to my ears. Also better than the ZEN CAN/DAC stack V1, which I upgraded from.

I have been looking for a lot of reviews about Ares 2, mostly people are saying it is suffering in the highs(but mids are very good). I did not try it myself. I really want to though.

I have only played/tried music in eco mode (volume mostly 50-75%) mode with Diablo. It will get even more engaging/dynamic in normal I have heard.

I started to feel that the sound, perceivably changed between ECO/NORMAL/TURBO modes, was due to my ‘breaking in the single ended/3.5mm jack first. (300hours)
Once I moved to balanced mode output (front 4.4mm jack), it made logical sense that if ‘half the circuit’ hadn’t been used/“broken in“, then their might be a sound signature change between the various mode settings if, for example, one DIDN’T use the ‘second half of the circuit’ (previously unused).
To hit this reasoning, I was working backwards; having heard real differences between Normal and Turbo, and Eco ’not so much’, I felt that I might have been ‘on to something’.

Months of using the balanced mode output, and arguably, being out of ‘new toy syndrome‘/‘kit testing phase’, I probably didn’t switch too often between Normal and Turbo (I stopped using Eco mode altogether once I had established the very real audio change in the other two modes: one is perfectly musical, the other is perfectly digitally ‘good’.

The difference has been experienced by many on the official iFi Diablo thread, and anecdotally, I think many of them were single ended (not ’balanced mode’) users..
Last week, for ‘fun’ I spent some time checking the sound as it sat now (at nearly the ’year’ mark of ownership, with usage just about every day)....

Definitely a difference.
Definitely the same difference as originally experienced.
and....
I was in balanced mode the whole time!


It is real.
It is significant enough for altering between the modes based on music genre; soundstage tracks preferring the air, and musicality tracks preferring the tone..
Notice I didn’t say which is which?: try for yourself, I do not want to bias your observations too much.

I haven’t toyed with the setting when feeding into a line level stereo (from rear of unit), as a brief initial check had me dismiss the phenomenon as occurring from the rear output.

 

[OCC7N]

I started to feel that the sound, perceivably changed between ECO/NORMAL/TURBO modes, was due to my ‘breaking in the single ended/3.5mm jack first. (300hours)
Once I moved to balanced mode output (front 4.4mm jack), it made logical sense that if ‘half the circuit’ hadn’t been used/“broken in“, then their might be a sound signature change between the various mode settings if, for example, one DIDN’T use the ‘second half of the circuit’ (previously unused).
To hit this reasoning, I was working backwards; having heard real differences between Normal and Turbo, and Eco ’not so much’, I felt that I might have been ‘on to something’.

Months of using the balanced mode output, and arguably, being out of ‘new toy syndrome‘/‘kit testing phase’, I probably didn’t switch too often between Normal and Turbo (I stopped using Eco mode altogether once I had established the very real audio change in the other two modes: one is perfectly musical, the other is perfectly digitally ‘good’.

The difference has been experienced by many on the official iFi Diablo thread, and anecdotally, I think many of them were single ended (not ’balanced mode’) users..
Last week, for ‘fun’ I spent some time checking the sound as it sat now (at nearly the ’year’ mark of ownership, with usage just about every day)....

Definitely a difference.
Definitely the same difference as originally experienced.
and....
I was in balanced mode the whole time!


It is real.
It is significant enough for altering between the modes based on music genre; soundstage tracks preferring the air, and musicality tracks preferring the tone..
Notice I didn’t say which is which?: try for yourself, I do not want to bias your observations too much.

I haven’t toyed with the setting when feeding into a line level stereo (from rear of unit), as a brief initial check had me dismiss the phenomenon as occurring from the rear output.

Thank you really much! thats great info right there. I will try it after work today. The thing is that I use single ended(stock cable) but do have a great balanced cable, but i feel the single ended sounds more relaxed... The unit have not been burned in yet I guess. I have used the single ended more though.

I just hope my Arya can handle normal mode. I have the volume on 12 to 3 o´clock in single ended(ECO)

I will report back later today.

 

[whitedragem]

Thank you really much! thats great info right there. I will try it after work today. The thing is that I use single ended(stock cable) but do have a great balanced cable, but i feel the single ended sounds more relaxed... The unit have not been burned in yet I guess. I have used the single ended more though.

I just hope my Arya can handle normal mode. I have the volume on 12 to 3 o´clock in single ended(ECO)

I will report back later today.

yep, that’ll put normal, ‘loud’ around 12o’clock, and turbo loud near the 1030 ‘left and right’ channels sound equal, usability threshold...
my sensitive over ears are super easy to drive (same sorta numbers as ye get with the Arya by the looks of it), but can use turbo mode, which really surprised me, and turned out to be very handy to have access to -I’d never have guessed or expected the subtle sound profile change between each mode (not so subtle depending on ’cans and source material!)

i believe whilst balanced mode gives double the “slew rate”, which was my ONLY motivation to use balanced mode.
increased slew rate increases amplifier responsiveness to changing signal level. (feels faster or ‘more liquid’).

 

[eskamobob1]

I'm 100% happy with the Diablo, with my only prior DAC/amp experience being a Chord Mojo. I like the the pairing of the Diablo with both my ZMF Auteur and Sennheiser HD6XX. I'll likely replace my 3rd headphone (HiFiMan Auteur) with something better suited for classical (800S or ATH-ADX5000) later this year. Getting a new headphone likely takes priority over a desktop DAC/amp combo simply because my listening setup lends itself more to use of a portable DAC/amp.

I assumed the Ares II would definitely produce a different sound sig from my Diablo; for an amp to pair with it, the build quality is a fairly big priority for me. I think I'm looking at combined DAC/solid-state-amp cost in the $1500 to $2000 range.

My understanding is that a real difference would be heard with an ampsandsound tube amp, but that raises the overall cost to $3500. That's likely a target a couple years down the road.

Honestly, if those are your cans and goals, why not continue to use the diablo as a source (dac) and using a larger budget to get a solid tube amp? for 1.5-2k you can get something like an OG mogwai, kenzie, or a few other A&S options. You will want to keep the A&S amp to a lower power level with this budget though. For example, the forge is right at 2k used but unfortunately my 32/300 hisses with HD800s. There are also a ton a great options outside of A&S lineup as well. for 2k you could also get something like a BHC + speedball + a nicer dac such as the D1SE (which should have fairly similar tonality to your diablo but will obviously be masked by the amp)

 

[OCC7N]

yep, that’ll put normal, ‘loud’ around 12o’clock, and turbo loud near the 1030 ‘left and right’ channels sound equal, usability threshold...
my sensitive over ears are super easy to drive (same sorta numbers as ye get with the Arya by the looks of it), but can use turbo mode, which really surprised me, and turned out to be very handy to have access to -I’d never have guessed or expected the subtle sound profile change between each mode (not so subtle depending on ’cans and source material!)

i believe whilst balanced mode gives double the “slew rate”, which was my ONLY motivation to use balanced mode.
increased slew rate increases amplifier responsiveness to changing signal level. (feels faster or ‘more liquid’).

yes it is actually loud at 12 o´clock. I have it on 10 o´clock. I could be wrong but it sounds like the highs has become more airy on normal. Also it is close to the limit of distortion. Weird actually.

 

[Whya Duck]

Honestly, if those are your cans and goals, why not continue to use the diablo as a source (dac) and using a larger budget to get a solid tube amp? for 1.5-2k you can get something like an OG mogwai, kenzie, or a few other A&S options. You will want to keep the A&S amp to a lower power level with this budget though. For example, the forge is right at 2k used but unfortunately my 32/300 hisses with HD800s. There are also a ton a great options outside of A&S lineup as well. for 2k you could also get something like a BHC + speedball + a nicer dac such as the D1SE (which should have fairly similar tonality to your diablo but will obviously be masked by the amp)

Thanks, @eskamobob1

I hadn't thought of using the Diablo (as a DAC) to feed a tube amp. Instead of looking for a 2-2.5K solid-state amp and DAC purchase, I agree that (for me) the next step to achieving a different/??better?? sound should be in investing in a tube amp.

I had success with picking up my Auteur on the head-fi classified forum… now I'll keep an eye on listing for tube amps.

 

[Whya Duck]

There has been some good replies to your first post on this topic (question), and to follow the theme:

Having listened to the Ares 2 it does outclass the Diablo (but not by as much as one might think).. the power shielding and rectification onboard hasn’t been given the love of the models further up the lineup and might require a nice power setup in your house (eg I use a PS audio regen box for critical front end kit). The Ares 2 I listened to suffered much from power source, in ways that the Diablo NEVER WILL.
Now as to ACTUAL audio quality: the Diablo ‘pseudo ladders’ (top ‘six bit’ has an out of order code processing that actually extends the capability of the BurrBrown PCM1793 DAC chips to well beyond their ’white sheet’ specifications) and for the most significant audio range the Diablo sounds like the Ares 2. (somewhere in the midrange the Diablo loses its ability to ‘equal’ the Ares 2.
Of course the Ares 2 isn’t a headphone amp, which throws the value proposition of the Diablo into the ‘crazy good’ territory. The GTO filter is the kicker that tips the favour into the Diablos court.

The Diablo is a GREAT DAC
The Diablo amp can easily be bested- a Burson amp slays it!
To be fair: 7kilograms does that in audio........

The Diablo into the Burson was a sound upgrade (not as much of an upgrade as an M11+ into the Burson- the THX amps in the M11+ can’t touch the Diablo for Sound Quality).
All of these amps can drive all of my headphones comfortably (although I never tried AKGk612s on the M11+ cause they are at 3pm on Turbo on the Diablo and I am able to enjoy Returnal (PS5 game) at 100% volume on the 8watt ‘class A’ Burson unit... (no point putting them on the weak ass THX chips)

If I had a Diablo (I do), figuring out ‘what upgrade’ (either DAC/amp) to buy next would have to depend on the setup it feeds.
The Diablo, lacking an analogue input, might lack functions that you need, whereas sidegrading a DAC to the Ares 2 wouldn’t technically give you anything (other than full laddered ‘nuance’).

BECAUSE the Diablo gets the critical ‘humans are super sensitive’ to high frequency detail range RIGHT, it is ‘like a ladder DAC’ where it matters...
That is enough for a pass- I’d suggest focus on other stuff (like headphones or speakers, or TRANSPORT) until you can buy an upgrade that justifies the investment (of course we all ascribe the actual value of money, to us as individuals, differently.. an unemployed single parent probably isn’t going to ‘sidegrade’ hifi...)

A transport quality upgrade will net more of a Sound Quality change (between a Diablo and an Ares 2) than the actual DACs would render from an ‘average transport’.
(an exceptional TRANSPORT will improve the quality of the digital fed into the DAC, and hence allow the parts to ‘properly scale’ to their respective quality segments).

Question for those using the Diablo to feed another amp. The Diablo kit comes with a 4.4mm Pentaconn to dual 3-pin XLR cable. For connecting to a SE-input tube amp, I can use XLR-to-RCA adapter cables?

 

[eskamobob1]

Question for those using the Diablo to feed another amp. The Diablo kit comes with a 4.4mm Pentaconn to dual 3-pin XLR cable. For connecting to a SE-input tube amp, I can use XLR-to-RCA adapter cables?

This is a question for @iFi audio. I am honestly not sure if the Diablo puts out a truly balanced signal or (if it does) if shorting/dropping is something it can tolerate

 

[OCC7N]

There is something great about this Diablo I can not seem to explain. It made me divide my audio collection in two, great production and not so great productions.

When the great productions hits, it´s like every element elevates the soundstage to a great ambient. After 10mins of "warming" up, it is covering the sound with a thick/dark/organic character(just a little)...I know it sounds weird, but it does something, Im sure, even though no tubes.

...this character makes "not-so-great-productions" a little boring and "monoish". It quickly reminds me of skipping to a greater production, this can be a con for some...but I think it´s closer to what the music should sound like.

When I have started to adapt this sound/character, after 30min of listening, the vocals on most tracks sounds more isolated. Sometimes I catch myself guessing which type of effects that has been used on the vocals(also other elements)

I know I put in some HIFI wannabe words but this Diablo is hate-it-or-love-it-kinda-thing. Great productions/source sounds awesome!

Headphone: HiFiMAN ARYA
Cable: Balanced and SE
Mode on Diablo: Normal
With or without powersupply...can´t hear much of a difference

 

[whitedragem]

There is something great about this Diablo I can not seem to explain. It made me divide my audio collection in two, great production and not so great productions.

When the great productions hits, it´s like every element elevates the soundstage to a great ambient. After 10mins of "warming" up, it is covering the sound with a thick/dark/organic character(just a little)...I know it sounds weird, but it does something, Im sure, even though no tubes.

...this character makes "not-so-great-productions" a little boring and "monoish". It quickly reminds me of skipping to a greater production, this can be a con for some...but I think it´s closer to what the music should sound like.

When I have started to adapt this sound/character, after 30min of listening, the vocals on most tracks sounds more isolated. Sometimes I catch myself guessing which type of effects that has been used on the vocals(also other elements)

I know I put in some HIFI wannabe words but this Diablo is hate-it-or-love-it-kinda-thing. Great productions/source sounds awesome!

Headphone: HiFiMAN ARYA
Cable: Balanced and SE
Mode on Diablo: Normal
With or without powersupply...can´t hear much of a difference

Thankyou 99.99999% Oxygen(free)CoatedCopper (that is how my brain interprets thy username every time I see ye...);

the phenomena you have just described (splitting the music catalogue to appropriate equipment) is ‘such a thing’ that if equipment DOESN’T reveal the differences to me, it gets relegated to ‘for mass market’ pile.
It is a ‘red flag’ (turn off) when I see products listed as generously making even low quality sources sound good(/great)..

I can handle having two setups; one for ‘each pile’ of recordings. generally a ’nice two channel rig’ and then the ‘home theatre room’ gets the stuff that the good setup rips apart (too honestly).

I recall one time, that was ‘funny to me’ back when my child couldn’t talk with words and I was toying with a beaut two channel setup, being a TEAC P700(transport)=>Parasound HD1100 (DAC)=>Star30 ((valve) integrated amplifier)=>AR LSTs (speakers) setup that had me literally running from one end of the house to the cinema room to grab piles of recordings...(normally kept well away from the ‘analytical system’ ) as I had swapped out the Sansui AU919 (a better than reference grade amplifier, that I used exclusively as a power amplifier with a Musical Fidelity amp being used for ‘preamp duties’ to feed it..) and the valve integrated amp just made EVERYTHING sound so real.

Having learned a little about ‘the valve sound’ - I actually took some Bose 301 speakers off to a mates house to do main left and Right duties in their hifi rig; something about having the direct reflecting drivers, with the crossover having a different point (frequency range) for each- the sound they gave, especially for vocals, was ‘as close to valve’ and could come from SolidState amps.
Having never been a Bose fan (my entire family came from a rural town where the ONE GOOD HIFI DEALER PUSHED BOSE, and they all had ‘the best’ and found, when I left home and moved to the ‘big smoke’, at age sixteen, and assembled a few hifi rigs, it didn’t take much to beat the ‘best’.
If we are fair to the market from which I was buying - mostly second hand kit from the late seventies and eighties, there was a reason for why I was getting such incredible performance, from the second hand market; mostly being parts built pre ‘integrated circuit’...

But it is hard to unlearn some things.. and once experienced, we start to question what our preferences are; is majority of our music in the ‘sounds better on the home theatre receiver’ pile?
As a teenager I really focused on great engineering and recordings. Sure I was in a ’CD world’, but using ‘liner notes’ I could see the studio, who the engineer was, and sometimes they even listed ‘kit used’.
To be fair to actual ‘music’, I was generally more interested in guest musicians (and their instruments)- eg “whats that?” Jimmy Nail is playing a stringed instrument on a track.. (Max Sharams ‘Million Year Girl’) etc..
True- Id probably rather listen to great music through a crap system, rather than crap music through the worlds best sound setup (for enjoyments’ sake); but wowsers to the lessons learned along the way.

It is great when we upgrade a piece of kit, and then all of a sudden hear traffic sounds (eg car horns) during a studio recording, albeit at a ‘very low level’, and we start to wonder whether the engineers ‘picked up on that’.

I actually use the extinction point of some sounds /sound effects as references, and stuff that can only be heard on ‘the monitor setup‘ to learn ‘how the recording IS’...
Then when listening to the same recording on other systems, we can learn what those systems do well (and what they mask/hide from us).

Nothing wrong with flowery language.. the observation that we fall prey to such things usually encourages us to be scientific/‘further educate’ and learn terms that describe ‘the actual phenomena’ that is causing the resultant sound.

music playback is both LEFT and RIGHT brain hemispheres.. hence why I always ‘check my feet’ (to see if they are ‘tapping along to the tunes’)..

 

[OCC7N]

I wrote this so I am qouting myself. "After 10mins of "warming" up, it is covering the sound with a thick/dark/organic character(just a little)"


Now that I think of it, without even knowing the specs of Diablo, maybe its because the Diablo is a Class-D?

 

[JK67]

I own both combinations mentioned above. The diablo as portable and the d1se + a90....and I prefer the desktop setup . Better separation/imaging/detail retrieval, overall significantly more refined sound to my ears. Diablo does sound fuller, but I don't touch it when at home. I like the diablo power - which allows me to take planar headphones on vacation, but d1se is underrated as a DAC and sounds great even with the very neutral A90 - don't judge it based on same chipset as for example d90se, they sound very different and that would probably be a bit of dead pairing.